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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004engine building?
Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car engine?" Engine-producing facility is fine? is there ant one word for it? Thanks for your help > Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car engine?" > > Engine-producing facility is fine? is there ant one word for it? Americans would usually say "engine plant." Plant is the commonest word for an industrial factory, and engine is the only term used for the prime mover of an automobile. British usage is different. Many Britons say "motor" when Americans say "engine" and the US "plant" has not superseded "factory." Production-line is also in common use in this industry, because automobiles (and components) are usually assembled as they move along a line of workers or robots. -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >British usage is different. Many Britons say "motor" when >Americans say "engine" and the US "plant" has not >superseded "factory." Most Britons would say "motor car", "motorcycle", "motorbike", "motor boat", etc. for the vehicle, but "engine" for what makes it go, David nospam@nospam.trytel.com spake thus: > > Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car > engine?" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Americans say "engine" and the US "plant" has not > superseded "factory." UK standard usage for the thing which consumes petrol and makes the car go is "engine". "motor" is a far smaller thing, usually electrical. We have "motor mowers" powered by petrol, but on the occasions when I take the works apart and clean them, I would say I was stripping the engine, not the motor. I would say "engine factory". > Production-line is also in common use in this industry, > because automobiles (and components) are usually > assembled as they move along a line of workers or robots.  SignatureDavid ===== > UK standard usage for the thing which consumes petrol and makes the > car go is "engine". If it burns fuel it's an engine; if it merely converts mechanical[1] energy from one form to another, it's a motor. Thus, gasoline engine, steam engine, electric motor, spring (or wind-up) motor. [1] "Mechanical" in the thermodynamic sense, which includes electricity. SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much. >If it burns fuel it's an engine; if it merely converts mechanical[1] energy >from one form to another, it's a motor. In rocketry, there are liquid fuelled engines (which have complex moving parts) and solid fuel motors (which are a tube full of goop). -- Do whales have krillfiles ? > >If it burns fuel it's an engine; if it merely converts mechanical[1] energy > >from one form to another, it's a motor. > > In rocketry, there are liquid fuelled engines (which have complex > moving parts) and solid fuel motors (which are a tube full of goop). I recognize that you're correct, but it's a MISNOMER! The solid rocket converts chemical potential to heat, after which event the 2nd Law applies, so it's an engine, dammit. Moving parts got nothing to do with it. Incidentally, I was briefly assigned to the Solid Rocket Propulsion Section at Wright Air Development Center, Wright-Patterson AFB, and I still say it's an engine. SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much. >> >If it burns fuel it's an engine; if it merely converts mechanical[1] energy >> >from one form to another, it's a motor. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Wright Air Development Center, Wright-Patterson AFB, and I still say it's an >engine. So why do boats have outboard motors, not outboard engines? SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com". >I recognize that you're correct, but it's a MISNOMER! Why ? It's a useful distinction for rockets, your chemical / potential distinction is merely arbitrary. My trebuchet is a siege engine, not a siege motor. If I drive my car, I'm a motorist, not an engineer. Perhaps this distinction makes sense on American railways, where an engineer also needs a fireman to operate their steam engine, but a motorman can drive his subway train alone (in the UK, both merely have drivers). -- Socialism: Eric, not Tony > My trebuchet is a siege engine, not a siege motor. They didn't have heat engines in those days so the distinction couldn't exist. > If I drive my car, I'm a motorist, not an engineer. I'll recognize that you're correct here, too, but that still don't make it right. "To motor" could perhaps have derived from the similarity to "automotive". Googling "automotor" yields 181,000 hits, none of which seem to be in English. > Perhaps this distinction makes sense on American railways, where an > engineer also needs a fireman to operate their steam engine, but a > motorman can drive his subway train alone (in the UK, both merely have > drivers). The subway has electric motors so "motorman" is correct. "Engineer" is correct for a locomotive driven by a steam engine or a diesel engine, and the name naturally carried over to electric locomotives. SignatureJohn Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much. >> Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car >engine?" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Americans say "engine" and the US "plant" has not >superseded "factory." I have been told by engineers that they are often puzzled by the use of "plant" to mean a building of some kind -- usually by non-engineers. Engineers speak of "plant and machinery" - machinery is fixed to the floor, while plant can be moved around. There are places that advertise "plant hire" -- that means air compressors, portable concrete mixers and the like. It's also the origin of the "Heavy plant crossing" signs. In my usage, I might speak of an electric motor, but an internal combustiion or steam "engine". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > Engineers speak of "plant and machinery" - machinery is fixed to the floor, > while plant can be moved around. There are places that advertise "plant hire" > -- that means air compressors, portable concrete mixers and the like. Those must be Industrial Engineers. I've worked in a couple of factories and visited others and never made any such distinctions. We just called the place the factory. "Physical plant" means buildings, HVAC, and like that. I suppose that term must distinguish physical plant from some other kind of plant, but it never occurred to me to note that until just now. SignatureJohn "sort of like Pacific Northwest" Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much. >> Engineers speak of "plant and machinery" - machinery is fixed to the floor, >> while plant can be moved around. There are places that advertise "plant hire" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >suppose that term must distinguish physical plant from some other kind of >plant, but it never occurred to me to note that until just now. My observation comes from a church meeting some 20 years ago, where the clergy were talking about "the church plant", meaning the church and associated buildings - hall, rectory, classrooms etc. An engineer got up and said he found the image conjured up by the term "church plant" quaint and amusing, and he pictured it being towed behond a truck. Other engineers present concurred. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car engine?" IMHE (and some years in the car industry), in UK english it would depend on the context. Cosworth or Gardner (independent makers of engines) have an engine factory, from where they sell them to customers. Ford (a car maker) have an engine plant, which supplies them to their assembly plant. -- Do whales have krillfiles ? >Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car engine?" > >Engine-producing facility is fine? is there ant one word for it? Whatever it is, it's not "facility". Factory would be better. A "facility" is something provided for ease and convenience; it does not produce anything. It's pretty vague, and can mean all sorts of things, from the option of taking an overdraft at your bank to a public toilet, but I think making engines is stretching it a bit *too* far. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car engine?" >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >the option of taking an overdraft at your bank to a public toilet, but I think >making engines is stretching it a bit *too* far. "Facility" works for me in some cases. I'd recognize "a manufacturing facility" as normal phrasing. For the original question, "I'd go with "automotive engine manufacturing (plant or facility)." Manufacturing plus plant seem redundant, but it works. >>>Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car engine?" >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Manufacturing plus plant seem redundant, but it works. Facility works for me too. The usage shown in AHD and MW AHD 4. Something created to serve a particular function: hospitals and other health care facilities. I think it's more from the perspective of being a part of something else- to an auto manufacturer, it would be their engine manufacturing facility. If it was an independent entity selling engines to others, 'facility' seems less likely as a name. -- john >>>>Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car engine?" >>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >facility. If it was an independent entity selling engines to others, >'facility' seems less likely as a name. An awful debility A lessened utility A loss of mobility is a strong possibility in all probability I'll lose my virility and you your fertility and desirability and this liability of total sterility will lead to hostility and a sense of futility so let's act with agility While we still have facility for we'll soon reach senility and lose the ability. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>>>>Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car engine?" >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >for we'll soon reach senility >and lose the ability. Niagara falls, viagra rises. -- john In our last episode, <40077f37.68652991@news.saix.net>, the lovely and talented Steve Hayes broadcast on alt.usage.english: > An awful debility > A lessened utility [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > for we'll soon reach senility > and lose the ability. That whirring sound is Andrew Marvell spinning in his grave. SignatureLars Eighner -finger for geek code- eighner@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/ "There's one good kind of writer -- a dead one." --James T. Farrell > In our last episode, > <40077f37.68652991@news.saix.net>, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > That whirring sound is Andrew Marvell spinning in his grave. You don't think he'd've liked Lehrer? Within the context of the song ("When You Are Old and Gray"), it's brilliant. IMO. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |To find the end of Middle English, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |you discover the exact date and Palo Alto, CA 94304 |time the Great Vowel Shift took |place (the morning of May 5, 1450, kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |at some time between neenuh fiftehn (650)857-7572 |and nahyn twenty-fahyv). | Kevin Wald http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ "Factory" > Hi. Can anyone tell me what do I call the facility that makes "car engine?" > > Engine-producing facility is fine? is there ant one word for it? > > Thanks for your help |
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