"Third rail"
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Maria Conlon - 21 Jan 2004 05:08 GMT From May of 2000:
"In a move that is sure to have his political advisers gulping Pepto-Bismol for the next several months, George W. Bush has floated the outlines of a proposal that would allow individuals to invest up to two percent of their current Social Security payroll taxes in privately controlled equity accounts. In fact, Bush has promised to make partial privatization of Social Security a central component of his presidential campaign. He has chosen to dance on the supposed "third rail" of American politics."
While this is an "old" quote, the term "third rail" has resurfaced in a big way in political discussions on cable TV during the past few days.
Per m-w online: Main Entry: third rail Function: noun Date: 1890
: a metal rail through which electric current is led to the motors of an electric vehicle (as a subway car)
So -- how does one dance on the third rail? Is there another meaning now?
 Signature Maria Conlon Please send any email to the Hot Mail address.
Lars Eighner - 21 Jan 2004 06:13 GMT In our last episode, <bul1ab$ikuue$1@ID-113669.news.uni-berlin.de>, the lovely and talented Maria Conlon broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> From May of 2000:
> "In a move that is sure to have his political advisers gulping > Pepto-Bismol for the next several months, George W. Bush has floated the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > campaign. He has chosen to dance on the supposed "third rail" of > American politics."
> While this is an "old" quote, the term "third rail" has resurfaced in a > big way in political discussions on cable TV during the past few days.
> Per m-w online: > Main Entry: third rail > Function: noun > Date: 1890 >: a metal rail through which electric current is led to the motors of an > electric vehicle (as a subway car)
> So -- how does one dance on the third rail? Is there another meaning > now? No doubt this pundit has not thought his metaphor through, but in truth there is no harm in standing on the third rail or dancing on it if you can. The danger is in forming a path to ground (BE: earth) from the the third rail, which would be very likely to happen in mounting or dismounting or in dancing upon it if one missteps (not to mention pissing on it, which may or may not be legendary).
Social Security was said to be *the* third rail in American politics long before Bush -- meaning that it is a dangerous issue which can harm the career of a politician who deals with it inappropriately. Unless some other issue is clearly meant, a reference to "the third rail" in a discussion of American politics means Social Security.
 Signature Lars Eighner -finger for geek code- eighner@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/ If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly. --G. K. Chesterton
Gary Vellenzer - 21 Jan 2004 13:47 GMT > In our last episode, > <bul1ab$ikuue$1@ID-113669.news.uni-berlin.de>, [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > Unless some other issue is clearly meant, a reference to "the third > rail" in a discussion of American politics means Social Security. Here's a real-life third-rail situation:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/156956p-137755c.html
Gary
FabFourFan - 21 Jan 2004 18:05 GMT >> In our last episode, >> <bul1ab$ikuue$1@ID-113669.news.uni-berlin.de>, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> > So -- how does one dance on the third rail? Is there another meaning >> > now? Yes, indeedy. The definition quoted above is from MW10, but check out the updated definition from MW11 online:
>Main Entry: third rail >Function: noun >Date: 1888 >1 : a metal rail through which electric current is led to the motors of an electric vehicle (as a subway car) >2 : a controversial issue usually avoided by politicians Michael Patrick
R H Draney - 21 Jan 2004 18:26 GMT FabFourFan filted:
>>Main Entry: third rail >>Function: noun >>Date: 1888 >>1 : a metal rail through which electric current is led to the motors of an >>electric vehicle (as a subway car) >>2 : a controversial issue usually avoided by politicians That may be majority usage, but the phrase has an odd resonance for pre-1975 graduates of the high school I attended...until my last year, classes were organized into three "rails", presumably on the basis of some childhood test scores...those who were exceptionally bright were "first rail", the main body of students were "second rail", and those who required more patience than information to get through were "third rail"...the last year, someone decided that (1) the rail system was elitist, and (2) students should be allowed to choose their own class sessions in open enrollment; I learned comparatively little in my senior year....
I'm not sure how I got assigned where I did in the hierarchy; I transferred into the system about five years before the end from another part of the country...I suppose there must have been a corresponding system in other places, with the translations known to those who arranged enrollment....r
John Varela - 21 Jan 2004 21:20 GMT > That may be majority usage, but the phrase has an odd resonance for pre-1975 > graduates of the high school I attended...until my last year, classes were > organized into three "rails", presumably on the basis of some childhood test > scores...those who were exceptionally bright were "first rail", the main body of > students were "second rail", and those who required more patience than > information to get through were "third rail". "Rails" is a new one; I've heard that system called "tracking".
 Signature John Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much.
Alec McKenzie - 21 Jan 2004 22:03 GMT > > That may be majority usage, but the phrase has an odd resonance for pre-1975 > > graduates of the high school I attended...until my last year, classes were [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > "Rails" is a new one; I've heard that system called "tracking". Also "streaming".
 Signature Alec McKenzie mckenzie@despammed.com
Richard R. Hershberger - 22 Jan 2004 02:30 GMT >In our last episode, ><bul1ab$ikuue$1@ID-113669.news.uni-berlin.de>, [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >Unless some other issue is clearly meant, a reference to "the third >rail" in a discussion of American politics means Social Security. Why do you assume that the pundit has not thought the metaphor through? As you point out, his extension of the standard form to have the president dancing on the rail is particularly apt. It seems peculiarly ungenerous to assume that the writer must have happened upon this by accident.
Steve Hayes - 21 Jan 2004 18:44 GMT >: a metal rail through which electric current is led to the motors of an >electric vehicle (as a subway car) > >So -- how does one dance on the third rail? Very carefully, to avoid touching the adjacent rail, which would give a nasty shock.
> Is there another meaning >now? I wondered if it was similar in meaning to an "egg dance", which is something I have also heard that politicians do, but my dictionary didn't have it.
 Signature Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Dr Robin Bignall - 21 Jan 2004 22:35 GMT >>: a metal rail through which electric current is led to the motors of an >>electric vehicle (as a subway car) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I wondered if it was similar in meaning to an "egg dance", which is something >I have also heard that politicians do, but my dictionary didn't have it. I've seen it expressed as "dancing on eggs" and "tiptoeing on eggshells", both describing the delicate handling of a sensitive (usually political) problem.
 Signature wrmst rgrds Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire England
John Varela - 22 Jan 2004 02:19 GMT > I've seen it expressed as "dancing on eggs" and "tiptoeing on eggshells", > both describing the delicate handling of a sensitive (usually political) > problem. "Tap-dancing" is another way of saying that--as done literally in the movie "Chicago". "Third rail", however, implies more dire consequences than just breaking some eggs.
 Signature John Varela (Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.) I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much.
Dr Robin Bignall - 22 Jan 2004 22:16 GMT >> I've seen it expressed as "dancing on eggs" and "tiptoeing on eggshells", >> both describing the delicate handling of a sensitive (usually political) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >"Chicago". "Third rail", however, implies more dire consequences than just >breaking some eggs. Indeed. But I don't think we actually have any third rails left in the London area except on the Underground. Main line electric trains are powered by overhead wires, I think. I suspect that the 'third rail' meaning *might* not be clear to younger Brits.
 Signature wrmst rgrds Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire England
Don Aitken - 23 Jan 2004 01:20 GMT >>> I've seen it expressed as "dancing on eggs" and "tiptoeing on eggshells", >>> both describing the delicate handling of a sensitive (usually political) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >powered by overhead wires, I think. I suspect that the 'third rail' meaning >*might* not be clear to younger Brits. The Underground is a "fourth rail" system. There are lots of third rail lines left, though - virtually the whole of the old "Southern Electric", which was converted to this system in the 1920s, still uses it. But maybe Sarf London doesn't count.
 Signature Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".
Ray Heindl - 23 Jan 2004 22:57 GMT
> The Underground is a "fourth rail" system. There are lots of third > rail lines left, though - virtually the whole of the old "Southern > Electric", which was converted to this system in the 1920s, still > uses it. But maybe Sarf London doesn't count. What's a "fourth rail" system? Is a superfluous rail added to get around patents on the third rail, or something of that sort?
 Signature Ray Heindl (remove the Xs to reply)
Don Aitken - 24 Jan 2004 00:39 GMT >> The Underground is a "fourth rail" system. There are lots of third >> rail lines left, though - virtually the whole of the old "Southern [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >What's a "fourth rail" system? Is a superfluous rail added to get >around patents on the third rail, or something of that sort? The current runs from a rail on the outside of the track to one in the center; both are carried on insulators. I think the main reason for it is that (for some reason I can't remember) it increases the life of the running rails if they are not used for current return. Even a slight difference is important, since rail replacement is a very difficult and expensive business; the tunnels are bored through clay, and only twelve feet wide, hence there is no access from the side, as there usually is with a subsurface system. It also simplifies the use of track circuiting for signalling and train control purposes.
On lines in the open air which are shared by third-rail and fourth-rail trains, the center rail is bonded to the running rails.
 Signature Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".
Mark Brader - 24 Jan 2004 04:11 GMT Ray Heindl:
>> What's a "fourth rail" system? Don Aitken:
> The current runs from a rail on the outside of the track to one in the > center; both are carried on insulators. Right. Of course, other layouts are possible, but that's the way the Underground does it. See e.g.
<http://www.davros.org/rail/photos/woodlane/midsize/wlane113.jpg> <http://www.davros.org/rail/photos/woodlane/midsize/wlane132e.jpg>
The center rail is nominally at -210 V, the outside one at +420 V. In the second picture you can see the positive rail changing from one side of the track to the other.
Historically, the C&SLR (1890, now Northern Line City Branch), W&CR (1898, now Waterloo & City Line), and CLR (1900, now Central Line), all originally used only a third rail, each line putting it in a different place; the GN&CR (1904, later the Northern City Line, then the Northern Line Highbury Branch, then BR's "GN Electrics" route, now served by WAGN) used third and fourth rail, but put them outside the running rails on both sides.
When the Metropolitan (1863, now the Metropolitan and Hammersmith & City Lines) and the Metropolitan District (1868, now the District Line) converted (except for outlying bits) from steam to electric trains in 1905, they had to choose a common system since they had a number of shared routes, most notably the Inner Circle (now the Circle Line). The Metropolitan wanted to use a Hungarian 3-phase system requiring two overhead wires *and* return current through the running rails; the District wanted the fourth-rail system that was finally chosen.
The BS&WR (1906, now the Bakerloo Line), GNPB&R (1906, now the Picca- dilly Line), and CCE&HR (1907, now the rest of the Northern Line) were owned by the same company as the District, so when they opened, they used the same system. This made it clearly the dominant system on the underground lines, and after they were nationalized and unified as the Underground system in 1933, the others were converted to the common system. (The W&CR didn't join the Underground until 1994; it was converted to the Southern Railway third-rail layout in 1940, then to the Underground system in 1992, each time when new trains were put on.)
> I think the main reason for it is that (for some reason I can't > remember) it increases the life of the running rails if they are > not used for current return. It's not the rails themselves, but other things nearby, especially the metal lining of the tunnels. The issue is galvanic action corroding the metal where stray current leaking from the running rails into the ground passes from one material to another.
An additional benefit of the 4-rail system is that it tolerates a short circuit to ground at any one place. If the positive rail is shorted to ground, the negative one simply drops to -630 V, and the trains keep running, and the problem can be fixed when convenient. Unless there is a fire, of course.
> the tunnels are bored through clay, and only twelve feet wide... Harrumph -- that's 11 feet 8 1/4 inches! Well, except for the post-WW2 tunnels, where there's a bit more width.
> It also simplifies the use of track circuiting for signalling and > train control purposes. Right. And since the normal voltage on each rail is lower, there is also a slight improvement in safety.
> On lines in the open air which are shared by third-rail and > fourth-rail trains, the center rail is bonded to the running rails. The nominal voltage for the third-rail system is 750 V these days, but the trains can get by on a lower voltage that won't burn out the Underground trains, so it works.
Incidentally, the old Nord-Sud company in Paris (which built what is now Line 12 of the Metro, and part of Line 13) used to run its trains with a third rail *and* an overhead wire, one at +600 and the other at -600 V. This was not used to achieve 1,200 V through the motors, though; the trains had two powered cars, one drawing from each supply and both using the running rails for return current (which therefore most of the time mostly just flowed from one power car as far as the other).
 Signature Mark Brader | "This is just the result of someone sitting down before Toronto | a computer and carefully removing his head first. msb@vex.net | It's a phenomenon which is becoming more and more common." | -- Leonard Wibberley My text in this article is in the public domain.
Dr Robin Bignall - 23 Jan 2004 23:12 GMT >>>> I've seen it expressed as "dancing on eggs" and "tiptoeing on eggshells", >>>> both describing the delicate handling of a sensitive (usually political) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Electric", which was converted to this system in the 1920s, still uses >it. But maybe Sarf London doesn't count. Dunno anyfing abaht sarf London. Never lived south of the Thames. Main line trains from London to Herts run on two rails, and have overhead electric cables. I haven't been on an Underground train in over 15 years, so can't remember its electrical layout, except that it was not overhead.
 Signature wrmst rgrds Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire England
Matti Lamprhey - 23 Jan 2004 23:57 GMT "Don Aitken" <don-aitken@freeuk.com> wrote...
> The Underground is a "fourth rail" system. There are lots of third > rail lines left, though - virtually the whole of the old "Southern > Electric", which was converted to this system in the 1920s, still uses > it. One exceptional stretch of the Southern Region was the Reading--Tonbridge line. At one time my journey to school utilised the Redhill--Reigate stretch, and many trains on this line were still under steam in the mid 60s.
Matti
Frances Kemmish - 24 Jan 2004 00:37 GMT > "Don Aitken" <don-aitken@freeuk.com> wrote... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Redhill--Reigate stretch, and many trains on this line were still under > steam in the mid 60s. My husband also went to school by steam train in the 1960s. He lived in Southwick, in Sussex, and went to school in Steyning. The train was known as the "Steyning Stinker". I don't where else it went - maybe only to Steyning.
 Signature Frances Kemmish Production Manager East Coast Youth Ballet www.byramartscenter.com
Steve Hayes - 23 Jan 2004 06:14 GMT >>> I've seen it expressed as "dancing on eggs" and "tiptoeing on eggshells", >>> both describing the delicate handling of a sensitive (usually political) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >powered by overhead wires, I think. I suspect that the 'third rail' meaning >*might* not be clear to younger Brits. When I was last in London, a long time ago, all the Soputhern Region British Rail trains used the third rail system. Have they changed that? And if so, was it before or after privatisation?
 Signature Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Harvey Van Sickle - 23 Jan 2004 23:15 GMT On 22 Jan 2004, Dr Robin Bignall wrote -snip-
>> "Tap-dancing" is another way of saying that--as done literally in >> the movie "Chicago". "Third rail", however, implies more dire [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the London area except on the Underground. Main line electric > trains are powered by overhead wires, I think. I don't think that's right -- at least not to the south and west of London. (I don't recall seeing any overhead power lines on the electrified Hampshire and Surrey routes into Waterloo.)
 Signature Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years; Southern England for the past 21 years. (for e-mail, change harvey to whhvs)
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