A something is a something is a something....

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Sachin Kailaje - 23 Jan 2004 10:47 GMT

Hi,

We often encounter sentences like :

"A lie is a lie is a lie."

Basically, a sentence of the form :

A <noun> is a <noun> is a <noun>.

and it always makes me wonder how the grammar of this sentence works.
Usually, we have simple sentences in the active voice, essentially, in
the form :

<Subject> <Verb> <Object>.

However, this sentence essentially parses into :
<Subject> <Verb> <Object> <Verb> <Secondary object??>

Any ideas to the origin of this usage and how this works?

This question came up because I was wondering if current English
language editor software applications can correctly understand such a
sentence....Microsoft Word's spell check had no issues.

Thanks,
Sachin.

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Steffen Buehler - 23 Jan 2004 10:51 GMT

> We often encounter sentences like :
>
> "A lie is a lie is a lie."

[...]

> Any ideas to the origin of this usage and how this works?

http://www.geocities.com/jiji_muge/isarose.html

> Microsoft Word's spell check had no issues.

LOL.

Best regards
Steffen

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Donna Richoux - 23 Jan 2004 11:33 GMT

> We often encounter sentences like :
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> language editor software applications can correctly understand such a
> sentence....Microsoft Word's spell check had no issues.

Gertrude Stein. I remember asking about this long ago, so there's a
thread in the archives.

It's modern (well, 20th century) poetry, so you just can't make it fit
conventional prose grammar. (She also tended to write some rather
unconventional prose.) You think someone can write a computer program
that can *understand poetry*?

Wikipedia has a list of variations Stein used, and other people's
versions.
http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/jsp/db/viewWiki.jsp?title=Rose+is+a+rose
+is+a+rose+is+a+rose.

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Best - Donna Richoux

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Jerry Friedman - 23 Jan 2004 16:34 GMT

> > We often encounter sentences like :
> >
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> >
> > Any ideas to the origin of this usage and how this works?

It's just an idiomatic way of saying "A lie is a lie," that is, fine
distinctions among lies are unimportant. Donna explained the origin.

> > This question came up because I was wondering if current English
> > language editor software applications can correctly understand such a
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> unconventional prose.) You think someone can write a computer program
> that can *understand poetry*?

Not yet, anyway.

> Wikipedia has a list of variations Stein used, and other people's
> versions.

See especially Stein's comments on it as quoted in that article.

> http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/jsp/db/viewWiki.jsp?title=Rose+is+a+rose
> +is+a+rose+is+a+rose.

Or more directly, <http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_is_a_rose_is_a_rose_is_a_rose.>.

Signature

Jerry Friedman

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Stefano MacGregor - 23 Jan 2004 15:26 GMT

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> However, this sentence essentially parses into :
> <Subject> <Verb> <Object> <Verb> <Secondary object??>

Except that there are no objects here -- the verb "to be" takes a
predicate nominative. The second occurance of the noun is the
predicate nominative, and then it is reused as the subject of a
second, identical, sentence.

However, it's possible Stein meant her poem to be read as...

"A rose is ... [pause and restart] a rose is ... [pause again, trying
to decide upon the predicate nominative] a rose [giving up on trying
to explain what a rose is]!"

Signature

Stefano
http://www.steve-and-pattie.com/esperantujo

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004

A something is a something is a something....