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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004Blind Freddy
Who is Blind Freddy, as in the Aussie slang: "Even Blind Freddy knows what that means". And why is the outback called the "woop-woop"? I also read that there are ten different words for kangaroo (ganguruu), and if the Aborigines had been asked about a red kangaroo we would be calling them nharrgali instead. > Who is Blind Freddy, as in the Aussie slang: > > "Even Blind Freddy knows what that means". Partridge says there was once a real blind Freddie in Sydney but no-one remembers him > And why is the outback called the "woop-woop"? from the same source - as a satire on the tendency of aboriginal names to repeat syllables. -- John Dean Oxford >> And why is the outback called the "woop-woop"? > > from the same source - as a satire on the tendency of aboriginal > names to repeat syllables. That tendency arises because repetition is a way of intensifying or pluralising a root word in aboriginal languages. For example, Wagga Wagga means 'place of many crows'. Places tend to get named after things of significance, such as 'very big hill', 'very deep creek', 'very tall trees', 'many frogs', 'lots of water', etc., and those are often intensified, duplicated forms. -- Regards John > Who is Blind Freddy, as in the Aussie slang: > > "Even Blind Freddy knows what that means". nah, the expression would be 'even blind Freddy could see that' as opposed to 'know that'. Meaning even a blind man could see what you can't. Meaning 'it's obvious'. > And why is the outback called the "woop-woop"? It's not. The expression is always 'out the back of woop woop', implying that it's even further and remoter than the notional place, woop woop. This can mean any remote place, although it often refers to small country towns no-one has ever heard of. I also read that there > are ten different words for kangaroo (ganguruu), and if the Aborigines > had been asked about a red kangaroo we would be calling them nharrgali > instead. Well they'll say anything, especially to naive white people. It sounds plausible. Mingmong > > Who is Blind Freddy, as in the Aussie slang: > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Well they'll say anything, especially to naive white people. It sounds > plausible. I like the story that "kangaroo" means "What did you say?" better. Why should the facts get in the way of a good story? Jon Miller hh2au@yahoo.com.au (Mingmong) wrote in message > > And why is the outback called the "woop-woop"? > > It's not. The expression is always 'out the back of woop woop', > implying that it's even further and remoter than the notional place, > woop woop. This can mean any remote place, although it often refers to > small country towns no-one has ever heard of. Just have to correct myself here, I conflated two aussie slang expressions here (gah, there's so many in this country it's hard to keep up, especially with the obsolete stuff), 'out back of beyond' and 'woop woop'. The last sentence is correct, woop woop is just a notional remote place, not necessarily the outback itself. I agree with the poster who thought it was a satirical reference to aboriginal repetitive naming. Mingmong [snip] > I also read that there > are ten different words for kangaroo (ganguruu), and if the Aborigines > had been asked about a red kangaroo we would be calling them nharrgali > instead. Given that some 300 quite separate aboriginal tribes(1), each with their own language, have been documented, I'd say that makes a minimum of 300 different words for "kangaroo" ... ... and there are possibly as many different aboriginal words for "aboriginal" (the erstwhile "aborigine", but I'm told this term is no longer PC, heaven knows why). The commonly heard one is "Koori", but I've heard that calling someone a "Koori" outside NSW can earn you a punch up the conk. ... and here's a linguistic how-d'you-do for you: at least some (many? most? all? I have no idea) aboriginal languages have a "male" and a "female" "language". It was taboo for the men to speak the women's language, so the women conversed to them in the male language, but amongst themselves in the women's language. In at least one tribe (so I'm told), the young men all went off to be stockmen (AmE = cowboys), and left their traditional tongue behind. By the time they thought to seek out their roots (decades later), all the old men had died. The women were conversing in the women's language, and the men tried to pick it up, and converse with them. This of course broke taboo, and the women refused to talk to them unless they spoke the men's language ... which they couldn't, and the women couldn't teach them, 'cos that would break taboo, too. So, a language (the men's language) dies long before the last person who knows how to speak it has died. Weird. [Note: story utterly anecdotal. Wouldn't be surprised if it was an LL(2)] Mark@home, using work addy 'cos I still can't get Xnews posting on the new ISP. (1) ... from two anthropologically separate races. (2) "Linguistic Legend": like an Urban Legend, only more cerebral. > ... and there are possibly as many different aboriginal words for > "aboriginal" (the erstwhile "aborigine", but I'm told this term is no > longer PC, heaven knows why). The commonly heard one is "Koori", but > I've heard that calling someone a "Koori" outside NSW can earn you a > punch up the conk. I heard that the PC term is now 'Original Owners". We can't use that in the US because we don't want to give any of the land back. I also read that no one knows why Cook chose "New South Wales" instead of "New Wales". > So, a language (the men's language) dies long before the last person > who knows how to speak it has died. Weird. Truly wierd! > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I've heard that calling someone a "Koori" outside NSW can earn you a > punch up the conk. I've certainly heard it used more or less as an insult. Over here in the West, the Ngungars are trying to lay claim to the entire SW, much to the irritation of other tribes. But the names 'Ngungar', 'Yamadgi', etc. are not used as or taken to be insults.  SignatureRob Bannister > > [snip] > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > irritation of other tribes. But the names 'Ngungar', 'Yamadgi', etc. are > not used as or taken to be insults. I've hear noongar (phonetic) used as an insult in NSW, it's a euphemism for stupid as in the expression 'ahhh ya noongar!', used when someone has done something stupidly exasperating. In the West I've only heard Kooris described (by ngungars) as ugly. Mingmong >>I've certainly heard it used more or less as an insult. Over here in the >>West, the Ngungars are trying to lay claim to the entire SW, much to the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > when someone has done something stupidly exasperating. In the West > I've only heard Kooris described (by ngungars) as ugly. This is strange. I mean, there aren't any in NSW. I wonder if they're confusing it with 'noong'? SignatureRob Bannister > I also read that there are ten different words for kangaroo > (ganguruu), and if the Aborigines had been asked about a red > kangaroo we would be calling them nharrgali instead. Nah, These were Brits, right? They'd probably be "nogglies". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Bullwinkle: You sure that's the 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | only way? Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Rocky: Well, if you're going to be | a hero, you've got to do kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | stupid things every once in (650)857-7572 | a while. http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> I also read that there are ten different words for kangaroo >> (ganguruu), and if the Aborigines had been asked about a red >> kangaroo we would be calling them nharrgali instead. > > Nah, These were Brits, right? They'd probably be "nogglies". I doubt it -- there'd be no reason to change the vowel like that. 'Narglies' might be possible, but not 'nogglies'. -- Regards John > >> I also read that there are ten different words for kangaroo > >> (ganguruu), and if the Aborigines had been asked about a red [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I doubt it -- there'd be no reason to change the vowel like that. > 'Narglies' might be possible, but not 'nogglies'. Oh, they'd *write* it "narglies"....but it would come out "nogglies". (We still don't do smilies, right?) SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |English is about as pure as a 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |cribhouse whore. We don't just Palo Alto, CA 94304 |borrow words; on occasion, English |has pursued other languages down kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |alleyways to beat them unconscious (650)857-7572 |and rifle their pockets for new |vocabulary. http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | --James D. Nicoll ... } (We still don't do smilies, right?) We do if we feel like it. (Those with a decent command of English usage and a prudent respect for the audience tend not to do it.) SignatureR. J. Valentine <mailto:q@wicked.smart.net> } On 28 Jan 2004 20:01:36 -0800 Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote: } ... } } (We still don't do smilies, right?) } } We do if we feel like it. (Those with a decent command of English usage } and a prudent respect for the audience tend not to do it.) For some reason, that reminds me that the _New American Bible_, on which the Lectionary read from in Roman Catholic Churches in the USA is based, is generally hard to come by on-line (probably for copyright reasons), but it seems to be available through the Vatican: http://www.vatican.va/archive/bible/index.htm You know, like, in case anyone is interested. SignatureR. J. Valentine <mailto:I@wicked.smart.net> > } On 28 Jan 2004 20:01:36 -0800 Evan Kirshenbaum <kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote: > } ... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > You know, like, in case anyone is interested. Maybe, just maybe, it owns the copyright? And can do with it as it wills? Cheers, Sage |
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