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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004moot
From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us who are may be moot. Scientists are discovering that genes can cange in response to external stimuli throughout one's life. Question: Is the word 'moot' part of Americans' daily vocabulary? Why not just put 'debatable' there so more people would understand it and I don't have to consult a dictionary. > From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us > who are may be moot. Scientists are discovering that genes can cange > in response to external stimuli throughout one's life. > > Question: Is the word 'moot' part of Americans' daily vocabulary? It occurs now and then. > Why not just put 'debatable' there so more people would understand it > and I don't have to consult a dictionary. Is that a question? If so, the answer is that the more common meaning of "moot" nowadays is "deprived of practical significance : made abstract or purely academic". The "debatable" meaning has fallen by the wayside, mostly.  SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ > > From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us > > who are may be moot. Scientists are discovering that genes can cange > > in response to external stimuli throughout one's life. > > > > Question: Is the word 'moot' part of Americans' daily vocabulary? > It occurs now and then. > > Why not just put 'debatable' there so more people would understand it > > and I don't have to consult a dictionary. > Is that a question? If so, the answer is that the more common meaning of > "moot" nowadays is "deprived of practical significance : made abstract or > purely academic". > The "debatable" meaning has fallen by the wayside, mostly. Arguably. SignatureReinhold (Rey) Aman > > From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us > > who are may be moot. Scientists are discovering that genes can cange [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > The "debatable" meaning has fallen by the wayside, mostly. Searching the AUE FAQ materials yields some interesting reading on this subject. The OP and anyone else who is interested can go to <http://www.alt-usage-english.org/cgi-bin/perlfect/search/search.pl?q=moot>. Items 2, 4, and 6 are all quite helpful. SignatureBob Lieblich To whom the discussion is moot > > From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us > > who are may be moot. Scientists are discovering that genes can cange [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > The "debatable" meaning has fallen by the wayside, mostly. Shall we moot that? Jon Miller >The "debatable" meaning has fallen by the wayside, mostly. That's a moot point. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >> From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us >> who are may be moot. It would be rather odd if it were an unmoot controversy. >> Question: Is the word 'moot' part of Americans' daily vocabulary? >It occurs now and then. >> Why not just put 'debatable' there so more people would understand it >> and I don't have to consult a dictionary. >Is that a question? If so, the answer is that the more common meaning of >"moot" nowadays is "deprived of practical significance : made abstract or >purely academic". >The "debatable" meaning has fallen by the wayside, mostly. Mostly the US wayside. -- Chris Malcolm cam@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/] In our last episode, <bv0a7d$rki$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, the lovely and talented Chris Malcolm broadcast on alt.usage.english: >>> From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us >>> who are may be moot. > It would be rather odd if it were an unmoot controversy. >>> Question: Is the word 'moot' part of Americans' daily vocabulary? >>It occurs now and then. >>> Why not just put 'debatable' there so more people would understand it >>> and I don't have to consult a dictionary. >>Is that a question? If so, the answer is that the more common meaning of >>"moot" nowadays is "deprived of practical significance : made abstract or >>purely academic". >>The "debatable" meaning has fallen by the wayside, mostly. > Mostly the US wayside. The only verb senses given in MWCD11 are (briefly) to argue (marked archaic), to broach (to bring up for discussion), to debate. I gather that this is in accord with British usage. I know I have heard in legal contexts the verb "moot" used where it clearly means "rendered devoid of practical significance," but this sense of the *verb* is not given in MWCD11. The noun moot is all but unknown in American English although it seems the sort of thing that might be preserved in the procedures of fraternal organizations. MWCD11 dates "moot court" to 1788. This date for makes it difficult for one to guess whether it is an American invention or was once part of the common language. Nonetheless, this is clearly the source of the (uniquely?) American sense of the adjective "deprived of practical significance" for such are the proceedings of a moot court. SignatureLars Eighner -finger for geek code- eighner@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/ Writing is a socially acceptable form of schizophrenia. --E. L. Doctorow >>> From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us >>> who are may be moot. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Mostly the US wayside. Yup, and that's what the OP's question (see above) and my answer was about. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ > From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us > who are may be moot. Scientists are discovering that genes can cange > in response to external stimuli throughout one's life. > > Question: Is the word 'moot' part of Americans' daily vocabulary? For some. > Why not just put 'debatable' there so more people would understand it > and I don't have to consult a dictionary. "Moot" doesn't mean "debatable", though the meaning is, ironically, debatable. To some, "moot" means longer capable of having an actual impact. "The petitioner's death rendered the petition moot." In law school, "moot court" usually means going (re-)staging an actual or hypothetical court case by play acting, as a learning experience, but without making a difference to the original case. SignatureJack Gavin << [Jack Gavin] "Moot" doesn't mean "debatable", though the meaning is, ironically, debatable. To some, "moot" means longer capable of having an actual impact. "The petitioner's death rendered the petition moot." In law school, "moot court" usually means going (re-)staging an actual or hypothetical court case by play acting, as a learning experience, but without making a difference to the original case. [end quote] >> But all of the active meanings include the idea of "debatable", although they might give more weight to "unimportant", or "having no real world effect". -- --------------------------------------------- Richard Maurer To reply, remove half Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us >>who are may be moot. Scientists are discovering that genes can cange [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "Moot" doesn't mean "debatable", though the meaning is, ironically, > debatable. We've done this not long ago. It does mean 'debatable', but not in the USA. > To some, "moot" means longer capable of having an actual impact. "The > petitioner's death rendered the petition moot." > > In law school, "moot court" usually means going (re-)staging an actual or > hypothetical court case by play acting, as a learning experience, but > without making a difference to the original case. And this was the reason given in the earlier discussion for why the meaning has changed in AmE. SignatureRob Bannister In our last episode, <t3p51099ftnjqc7lgkr56t8576b63i0se6@4ax.com>, the lovely and talented nick broadcast on alt.usage.english: > From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us > who are may be moot. Scientists are discovering that genes can cange > in response to external stimuli throughout one's life. > Question: Is the word 'moot' part of Americans' daily vocabulary? > Why not just put 'debatable' there so more people would understand it > and I don't have to consult a dictionary. I was about to kneejerk a "consult the FAQ," but I find it only in the "words which are their own antonym" section. I'm not sure that is quite correct since I do not know that it is ambiguous in either dialect. "Debatable" does not help much as it has similar double meanings. "Moot" is common enough in American English that one sometimes sees it rendered as (or confused with) "mute." SignatureLars Eighner -finger for geek code- eighner@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner/ "The very essence of the creative is its novelty, and hence we have no standard by which to judge it." --Carl R. Rogers, On Becoming a Person > "Moot" is common enough in American English that one sometimes sees it > rendered as (or confused with) "mute." Egad! I'm out of touch with the public again. I don't doubt you, and it does ring a vague bell, like maybe I've seen it in a newspaper (where the pressures of deadlines cause me to excuse many errors I wouldn't otherwise). I don't think I've heard it. "Moot" is mutable? And mutating. Jon Miller >From Times: The controversy over whether nature or nurture makes us >who are may be moot. Scientists are discovering that genes can cange [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Why not just put 'debatable' there so more people would understand it >and I don't have to consult a dictionary. Is "Times" read by Americans? Do you mean "The Times" or "Time" or some other publication? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Speaking of 'moo' words, I was just musing that you have to be pretty Hardy to associate moor with amour. |
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