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Reinhold (Rey) Aman - 25 Jan 2004 08:00 GMT

Famous photographer Helmut Newton, 83, who died Friday in Los Angeles
after apparently losing control of his brand-new Cadillac and crashing
into a wall, had a name that aroused my interest, as "Helmut" is German
and "Newton" is English.

He was born in Berlin in 1920 as the son of a wealthy Jewish button
manufacturer (German: _Knopffabrikant_). I was certain that he changed
his German surname after he had fled the Nazis in 1938, which he did
indeed a year later while living in Australia.

"Newton" means "new town"; thus his German name probably was the
verbatim translation of that, namely "Neustadt" or something close to
that. Via Google I found out that his original name was "Neustädter"
(lit., a male from Neustadt), "new-towner."

-----------------------

In addition to the mispronounced "Rothschild" and "Florsheim" we
discussed short time ago, I just remembered another one, "Susskind" (as
in David, the late NYC TV producer). Anglos mispronounce his name
/'sVs,kaInd/ (rhyming with "bus" and "mind"). This German-Jewish
surname originally was "Süßkind" (lit., 'sweet child'), /'zys,kInt/,
pronounced roughly "ZEES-keent."

Which brings to mind:
Where *is* Richard Fontana (né Robert Springbrunnen)?

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Reinhold (Rey) Aman
---------------------------------------
"Like most here, I rarely read Rey. ...
I recommend that you avoid Rey's posts.
They're not worth it."
-- John Dean, 21 November 2003

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Michael Nitabach - 25 Jan 2004 14:09 GMT

<snipped discussion of altered Jewish names>

Do you have any ideas about what my original family name may have been?
It is my understanding that it arose somewhere in either Ukraine or
Belarus.

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Mike Nitabach

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Reinhold (Rey) Aman - 25 Jan 2004 22:08 GMT

> <snipped discussion of altered Jewish names>
>
> Do you have any ideas about what my original family name may have been?
> It is my understanding that it arose somewhere in either Ukraine or
> Belarus.

When I first saw your name pop up in AUE, my immediate thought was that
it's a German place name, perhaps in Franconia (north of Nürnberg and
Würzburg), possibly a variant of "Niederbach" (lit., 'lower creek').

"Nita" is not German, but "bach" looks German; I say "looks," because it
could be from some Slavic word "-batch-" (bac + hacek).

I don't know whether you pronounce the <i> as /aI/ ("y") or /i:/ ("ee")
and the <ch> as /kh/, /k/ or /tS/ (= tsh) because that could change things.

Then there's the question of morphology: is the word derived from Nita +
bach or Ni + tabach. The latter, often spelled "Tabak" (meaning
"tobacco" in German) and its variants "Tabacknik," "Tobaknik," etc. (a
seller of, OR dealer in, tobacco) is a not uncommon East-European Jewish name.

I tried these Websites but had no luck:

http://www.genealogytoday.com/surname/finder.mv?Surname=Nitabach

http://www.surnamefinder.com/search/N025089.html

Sorry I can't help you with a definitive answer.

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Reinhold (Rey) Aman

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Thomas F. Howald - 26 Jan 2004 15:30 GMT

> > <snipped discussion of altered Jewish names>
> >
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Sorry I can't help you with a definitive answer.

Herr Professor Doktor,

could it be that Nitabach is the Americanized Swiss surname
Nietlisbach?

The Twixtel phone book of Switzerland has 78 entries Nietlisbach.

There is also a wheel chair athlete by the name Franz
Nietlisbach:

http://tinyurl.com/2rlqc

Just a hunch.

Thomas F. Howald

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Michael Nitabach - 26 Jan 2004 19:16 GMT

>> > <snipped discussion of altered Jewish names>
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> Just a hunch.

My father's family came from Ukraine and Belarus, so I consider this
unlikely. This is, however, the closest European name to my own that I
have seen.

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Mike Nitabach

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Javi - 26 Jan 2004 20:04 GMT

>> Herr Professor Doktor,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> unlikely. This is, however, the closest European name to my own that I
> have seen.

There is also Raissa Nitabuch, the name of a German physician of the 19th
century. He seems to be of Russian ancestry. Have a look at

http://www.matrikel.unizh.ch/pages/13499.htm

--
Saludos cordiales
Javi

Mood conjugation:

I enjoy a drop
You never say no
He is an alcoholic

(Craig Brown)

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Thomas F. Howald - 27 Jan 2004 09:02 GMT

> >> > <snipped discussion of altered Jewish names>
> >> >
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> unlikely. This is, however, the closest European name to my own that I
> have seen.

So the Nietlisbachs might be from the East too.

Thomas F. Howald

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Reinhold (Rey) Aman - 27 Jan 2004 21:37 GMT

[...]

> Herr Professor Doktor,
>
> could it be that Nitabach is the Americanized Swiss
> surname Nietlisbach?

I don't think so. These two names are too far apart soundwise: Nietlis
--> Nita is more than unlikely.

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Reinhold (Rey) Aman

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R J Valentine - 28 Jan 2004 04:10 GMT

} Thomas F. Howald wrote:
}
} [...]
}
}> Herr Professor Doktor,
}>
}> could it be that Nitabach is the Americanized Swiss
}> surname Nietlisbach?
}
} I don't think so. These two names are too far apart soundwise: Nietlis
} --> Nita is more than unlikely.

You sure it's not a stream in northeastern Lorraine?

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R. J. Valentine <mailto:rj@smart.net>

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Evan Kirshenbaum - 25 Jan 2004 17:59 GMT

> Where *is* Richard Fontana (né Robert Springbrunnen)?

"Shpritzwasser", as I usually hear the joke told. ("Yeah, well I knew
his father when he was just 'Moishe the Pisher'.")

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Skitt - 25 Jan 2004 20:05 GMT

[...]

> In addition to the mispronounced "Rothschild" and "Florsheim" we
> discussed short time ago, I just remembered another one, "Susskind"
> (as in David, the late NYC TV producer). Anglos mispronounce his name
> /'sVs,kaInd/ (rhyming with "bus" and "mind"). This German-Jewish
> surname originally was "Süßkind" (lit., 'sweet child'), /'zys,kInt/,
> pronounced roughly "ZEES-keent."

I would have said "ZEES-kint". Regional difference?

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Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/

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Reinhold (Rey) Aman - 25 Jan 2004 22:14 GMT

> [...]
> > In addition to the mispronounced "Rothschild" and "Florsheim" we
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > surname originally was "Süßkind" (lit., 'sweet child'), /'zys,kInt/,
> > pronounced roughly "ZEES-keent."

> I would have said "ZEES-kint". Regional difference?

Yours is better. I wanted to indicate that the <i> is half-long and
doesn't rhyme with "pint."

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Reinhold (Rey) Aman

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Skitt - 25 Jan 2004 22:23 GMT

>> [...]
>>> In addition to the mispronounced "Rothschild" and "Florsheim" we
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Yours is better. I wanted to indicate that the <i> is half-long and
> doesn't rhyme with "pint."

Right -- it rhymes with "mint".

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Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/

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Brian Wickham - 26 Jan 2004 18:25 GMT

>> [...]
>> > In addition to the mispronounced "Rothschild" and "Florsheim" we
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Yours is better. I wanted to indicate that the <i> is half-long and
>doesn't rhyme with "pint."

In NY David Suskind was often called 'Suss-kynd' but was just as often
known as 'Suss-kin' with the final 'd' swallowed. I can't really
recall how pronounced it on his TV show.

Brian Wickham

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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004

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