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"sardonic" vs. "sarcastic ?

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Richard Haven - 25 Jan 2004 17:12 GMT
I heard this on "Monk" last Friday, and now I am trying to find a good
comparison of these two terms. What I have found on-line is unspecific
and usually has these as synonyms.

TIA
Donna Richoux - 25 Jan 2004 18:30 GMT
> I heard this on "Monk" last Friday, and now I am trying to find a good
> comparison of these two terms. What I have found on-line is unspecific
> and usually has these as synonyms.

You're in luck; this question has been discussed frequently in a.u.e, so
if you search on the two words at the Google Group archives, you'll find
plenty of opinion. Let us know if you can't find those posts.

I notice that the last thing I said about "sardonic" was:

    "sardonic" primarily describes a facial appearance. Not a kind of
    emotional state or wordplay or so forth, although it moved on to
    mean those things.

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Best -- Donna Richoux

Christopher Green - 26 Jan 2004 07:39 GMT
> I heard this on "Monk" last Friday, and now I am trying to find a good
> comparison of these two terms. What I have found on-line is unspecific
> and usually has these as synonyms.
>
> TIA

"Sarcastic" cuts or tears at flesh (figuratively, of course):
sarcastic wit is vicious and meant to wound.

"Sardonic" is the expression of one who has been poisoned by certain
herbs: sardonic wit gives a surface impression of humor, but
underneath it is bitter or venomous.

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Chris Green

Mike Bandy - 26 Jan 2004 10:41 GMT
>I heard this on "Monk" last Friday, and now I am trying to find a good
>comparison of these two terms. What I have found on-line is unspecific
>and usually has these as synonyms.

I also saw that on *Monk*, and (like you) spent some time researching
the subject.  I still don't understand the distinction made on *Monk*,
but I'd like to share my notes with you.  The difference is perhaps
one of attitude on the part of the speaker or writer.  The etymologies
are useful. (1)

Etymology of sarcasm.  To bite one's lips in rage.  The OED says,
"late Latin sarcasm-us, a. late Gr. sarkasmoi, f. sarkazein 'to tear
flesh, gnash the teeth, speak bitterly', f. sark-, sarc 'flesh'."
"The same root 'sarc' is seen in a literal sense in 'sarcophagus'" --
John Lawler.

Etymology of sardonic.  L. sardoni-us, from Latin adj. for
'Sardinian', the descriptive epithet of bitter or scornful laughter;
from the notion that the word had primary reference to the effects of
eating a `Sardinian plant' (L. herba Sardonia or Sardoa), which was
said to produce facial convulsions resembling horrible laughter,
usually followed by death.  -- OED.  "Sardonic wit gives a surface
impression of humor, but underneath it is bitter or venomous." --
Christopher Green.

In contrast to some other forms of irony, both sardonic and sarcastic
wit,  involve intent to harm, or at least intent to tease.  "Satirical
implies exposure, especially of vice or folly, to ridicule. Sardonic
is associated with scorn, derision, mockery, and often cynicism." --
Dictionary.com

"Sarcastic may describe whatever is bitter, cutting, and marked by
intent to wound by taunting, mocking, deriding, or making ridiculous.
...  Sardonic may apply to what manifests scorn, mockery, or derision
and arises from disbelief in or doubt about values or motives" --
W3NID

"These words [sarcastic, biting, caustic, cutting, and sardonic] refer
to sharp, contemptuous behavior toward someone, especially when it is
of a verbal nature.  *Sarcastic,* which comes from a root meaning to
tear flesh or to sneer, describes a person, statement, expression,
attitude, or tone of voice that is heavily ironic to the point of
being snide.  A /sarcastic/ comment is generally scornful or taunting
in tone, often expressing the opposite of what it literally says.  The
word /sarcastic,/ in fact, often points to obnoxious arrogance,
lacerating mockery, or wryly contemptuous teasing.  By contrast,
*sardonic,* which comes from a root that refers to a poison causing
fatal, laughterlike convulsions, emphasizes a less direct or
aggressive approach in favor of a mocking or sneering attitude that
may be witty, ironic, or laughter-provoking.  Where /sarcastic/
suggests an attempt to express and inspire contempt, /sardonic/
stresses the intent to ridicule.  Also, /sarcastic/ suggests single,
ad hominem utterances, whereas /sardonic/ may suggest a far-reaching
general attitude of somber cynicism that is not always directed at a
person: his /sarcastic/ remarks about the speed and competence of the
waiters; his /sardonic/ view about the possibilities for social reform
... ." (2)

Notes

(1)  I'm quoting someone (John Lawler(?)) who quoted the OED.

(2)  S. I. Hayakawa *Use the Right Word*, p. 525.

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Mike Bandy

Jim Ward - 27 Jan 2004 15:28 GMT
> Etymology of sardonic.  L. sardoni-us, from Latin adj. for
> 'Sardinian', the descriptive epithet of bitter or scornful laughter;
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> impression of humor, but underneath it is bitter or venomous." --
> Christopher Green.

I read yesterday that some Spanish troops ate the Sardonia instead of
surrendering to the Romans - it appeared that they were mocking the
Romans even in death.
 
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