> the way though 'Brinkley's Beat'. The man is a damn good writter.
> his creative juices were really flowing.
> After reading this book, I will read more by David Brinkley.
> Grammar studies still have my attention.
> I want to read leading journalists writings.
> After I'm done with Brinkley, I will start anouther.
> Pile.
>> I am almost 3/4th of the way though 'Brinkley's Beat'.
>> The man is a damn good writer.
> I believe Mr. Writer died of a heart attack a few months ago.
He died in June 2003. David Brinkely's style looks simple, is very
easy to read, funny more often than sad, and is easy to follow. He
can tell stories that are quite involved, that have complex angles,
that have subtle cause and effect and relations; but he never fails to
lead the reader or listen to better understanding. David Brinkley's
chapter of 'Brinkley's Beat: The Mediterranean' is a case in point.
Back years ago in the 1950s, Brinkley did short documentaries on
various regoins and broadly discussed the present, the past, and the
future outlook for a rapidly moderizing region.
>> His treatment of Theodore Bilbo is really excellent;
> I'm sure Mr. Bilbo is grateful for such excellent treatment.
> Or would be if he hadn't died decades ago. Mr. Brinkley
> is also dead. Do I detect a trend?
You never fail to be funny. LOL. He he he...
>> his creative juices were really flowing.
> Block that metaphor.
Do you always block words that can be sexually suggestive? Do you
repress sexual thoughts a lot?
>> After reading this book, I will read more by David Brinkley.
> Be still, my heart.
David Brinkley is a very good writer. His style is impressive. I
will attempt an imprint.
>> "Washington Goes to War" is said to be
>> excellent, is his personal best seller, the book he took the
most time
>> with, and has interesting views on Dixiecrats like Theodore
Bilbo.
>> Theodore Bilbo was a US senator from Mississippi during WWII who
ran
>> the committee which oversaw the District of Columbia. The man
didn't
>> exactly hide the fact that he was a rasist--in fact, he was one
of the
>> most outrageous racists to ever serve as US senator. He made
>> international news during wwii,
> International was old before then? And is wwii the same as WWII?
Writers who work for newspapers work under bosses who are called
editor, and there is an editor called a proofeditor too. Do you know
the typical job descriptions of each? Look, Robert, it is rude to
poke fun at typos, minor and major misspellings, gramamatical
mistakes, ect. The use.net is a chat environment, really just a slow
old style internet bulletin board. Why don't you take it somewhere
else? Don't you have places to find friends, to meet with friends,
places to have fun to go? I really can't imagine "poking fun" at me
can be such a good use of your time.
>> the worst thing about NAZIs was that
>> they declared war on the US according to Bilbo, and he was friend
to
>> all the major anti-semites in the media.
> Great run-on sentence, Freck.
You didn't understand it? It look a bit long, but it doesn't run on.
The phrase 'according to Bilbo' could have been at the front part and
not the back part of the clause.
>> Grammar studies still have my attention.
> I hope they will survive it.
>> Recently, I spend $132 on
>> books and all were on on
>> grammar, but for David
>> Brinkley's book. I feel a
>> new reading interst coming on.
Barron's: The English You Need to Know
The Associated Press: Guide to News Writing
Alpha Teach Yourself Grammar and Style in 24 Hours (many lessons that
take about 1 hours to read and some more time to do exercises)
100 Ways to Improve Your Writing
The Oxford English Grammar
> We are thrilled for you.
Why do you like to use 'We'? Are you a spokesperson for this NG? Do
you have a sigificant other with who has your back?
>> I want to read leading journalists writings.
> Consider reading a book on punctuation first.
> Try the section on apostrophes.
On the use.net apostrophes are substituted for italics. Italics, the
use.net, not enabled.
Yoda had strange style.
>> After I'm done with Brinkley, I will start anouther.
> Well, it beats never reading anything again. (I'll give you a pass
> on "anouther.")
>> Who do you think merits my attention and why?
> A junior high school grammar teacher, for one.
> I should think the reason is obvious.
People who deal the pug teens all day get to have something wrong with
them.
They get crazy and quit, or become like the pug teens. You remind me
of pug teens.
Middleschool teens are the worst school age group. Yet, taking a class
would be a good idea.
I'm not in position to take classes now, but in time I will. One main
interest is to finish a
geography degree at Florida Atlantic University with major course work
in urban transportation.
I nearly finished a geography degree at the Univeristy of Maryland,
Baltimore Campus a decade ago.
Other interests are math tutoring for algebra, trig, geometery,
pre-calulus; digital photograph, and Photoshop,
Illustrator and Quark Express. Some sort of technical writing is a
long term goal, but other occupations would be fun and might pay
better. Wedding photograper on average pay is super compared to
technical writer which has average professional pay. A technical
writer might make between $30k-$90k, but a wedding photographer might
make between $40k-$110k. The job I'm doing now pays well, but is
stressful.
>> Which journalists do you hold to be best, or your favorite?
>> On my suggestion list are: Charles Karault,
> Oy!
>> Mike Royko (wrote Boss), Arnie
> Oy.
>> Pile.
> Oy!
> Okay, Freck, if you've taken the battering and read to the end, here
> are a few recommendations (all serious): Anything by A.J. Liebling
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Buckley, Jr. Biographies by Ben Bradlee and Katharine Graham.
> Anything by Murray Kempton.
None of those personalities appeal to me.
> When you've finished those, come on back and give us another posting
> to poke fun at.
I will finish up 'Brinley's Beat'. Then I will move on to 100 Ways to
Imporve Your Writing, which will go fast, it is quite light. The
Bedford Handbook, I just couldnt get into it.
You have always been asking, "Why, Freck, do you post?" or some such.
Why do you think, I bother?
There is a real reason I've kept at posting to the use.net for the
last 7 years, I bet you can' t guess?
Mark Brader - 28 Jan 2004 08:41 GMT
John Freck writes [copyedited]:
> He died in June 2003. David Brinkley's style looks simple, is very
> easy to read, funny more often than sad, and is easy to follow. He
> can tell stories that are quite involved, that have complex angles,
> that have subtle cause and effect and relations; but he never fails to
> lead the reader or listener to better understanding....
Interesting, this use of the present tense. Not wrong, just interesting.

Signature
Mark Brader, Toronto | "One thing that surprises you about this business
msb@vex.net | is the surprises." -- Tim Baker
Tony Cooper - 28 Jan 2004 13:53 GMT
>John Freck writes [copyedited]:
>> He died in June 2003. David Brinkley's style looks simple, is very
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Interesting, this use of the present tense. Not wrong, just interesting.
I don't find it awkward. When a writer is described as a person
writing a book, the present tense fits. When the writer is described
as a person - and that person is dead - the past tense fits.
I don't think you can say "Shakespeare is a good writer", but I think
you can say "Shakespeare is using the forest an analogy".
Charles Riggs - 29 Jan 2004 06:52 GMT
>I don't think you can say "Shakespeare is a good writer", but I think
>you can say "Shakespeare is using the forest an analogy".
But can you say *you* are a good writer? Or that you make any sense
much of the time? Read the above, please. Even after inserting the
missing 'as', the second part of your sentence makes little sense.
Who's to say what you meant in the first part? More C**pernian
gibberish. I still can't get used to it.

Signature
Charles Riggs
Email address: chriggs¦at¦eircom¦dot¦net
Tony Cooper - 29 Jan 2004 07:24 GMT
>>I don't think you can say "Shakespeare is a good writer", but I think
>>you can say "Shakespeare is using the forest an analogy".
>
>But can you say *you* are a good writer?
Yes. I can. Whether or not I should is debatable from the viewpoint
of both modesty and accuracy.
> Or that you make any sense
>much of the time? Read the above, please. Even after inserting the
>missing 'as', the second part of your sentence makes little sense.
Yes, I did mistype and omit the "as". If, after inserting that, you
still don't understand it then I can't help you.
>Who's to say what you meant in the first part? More C**pernian
>gibberish. I still can't get used to it.
I feel the same way about okra.
Michael Nitabach - 28 Jan 2004 14:34 GMT
> John Freck writes [copyedited]:
>> He died in June 2003. David Brinkley's style looks simple, is
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Interesting, this use of the present tense. Not wrong, just
> interesting.
Is this use related to the "police present"? Police spokesman at news
conference: "The suspect enters the jewelry store, pulls out his gun,
and demands the bling-bling. The proprietor removes his gun from
under the display case and shoots the suspect in the head."
I actually think it is not. In Freck's usage, the present tense makes
sense because even though Brinkley is dead, through his writing he
can still currently capable of leading a reader. The police usage
makes sense for another reason, perhaps as an imagined
contemporaneous narration of the events as they unfolded.
I did search the AUE Google archive for discussions of the police
present, and was surprised not to find anything. Maybe my search
terms were not well-crafted.

Signature
Mike Nitabach
Donna Richoux - 28 Jan 2004 16:27 GMT
> Is this use related to the "police present"? Police spokesman at news
> conference: "The suspect enters the jewelry store, pulls out his gun,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> present, and was surprised not to find anything. Maybe my search
> terms were not well-crafted.
I've never heard of "police present" as a term, but you'll find plenty
of hits in our archives for "historical present".

Signature
Best -- Donna Richoux
Michael Nitabach - 28 Jan 2004 20:04 GMT
>> I did search the AUE Google archive for discussions of the police
>> present, and was surprised not to find anything. Maybe my search
>> terms were not well-crafted.
>
> I've never heard of "police present" as a term, but you'll find
> plenty of hits in our archives for "historical present".
Indeed. Thanks for the heads-up.

Signature
Mike Nitabach
Tony Cooper - 28 Jan 2004 13:49 GMT
\>>> Which journalists do you hold to be best, or your favorite?
>>> On my suggestion list are: Charles Karault,
>> Oy!
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>None of those personalities appeal to me.
Ouch. How can you say these personalities don't appeal to you if you
don't know them? If you can appreciate Mike Royko, you can certainly
enjoy Jim Murray.
>You have always been asking, "Why, Freck, do you post?" or some such.
>Why do you think, I bother?
>There is a real reason I've kept at posting to the use.net for the
>last 7 years, I bet you can' t guess?
It's my guess, after reading your posts, that you have a genuine
interest in improving your English. Frankly, I don't think you have
any flair in expressing yourself, but I can't help but admire your
tenacity. It's rather like me and golf.
John Freck - 29 Jan 2004 16:33 GMT
> >None of those personalities appeal to me.
> Ouch. How can you say these personalities don't appeal to you if you
> don't know them? If you can appreciate Mike Royko, you can certainly
> enjoy Jim Murray.
To 'not like' is neutral, while 'dislike' is negative. Also, I
should have added that, I'm unfamilar with some on his list. I will
remember, Jim Murray's, name.
>> You have always been asking, "Why, Freck, do you post?" or some
such.
>> Why do you think, I bother?
>> There is a real reason I've kept at posting to the use.net for
the
>> last 7 years, I bet you can' t guess?
> It's my guess, after reading your posts, that you have a genuine
> interest in improving your English. Frankly, I don't think you have
> any flair in expressing yourself, but I can't help but admire your
> tenacity. It's rather like me and golf.
Yes.
John Freck
Tony Cooper - 29 Jan 2004 16:58 GMT
>> >None of those personalities appeal to me.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>should have added that, I'm unfamilar with some on his list. I will
>remember, Jim Murray's, name.
>>> You have always been asking, "Why, Freck, do you post?" or some
>such.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Yes.
You're in a rough group here if you make it that way. Most of the
people here (and I do not include myself in that "most") are more than
very good at grammar and punctuation. Most will forgive or overlook
basic errors (like the incorrect usage of commas before and after Jim
Murray's name in the above and that extra one stuck between "that" and
"I'm") if you are candid about your weaknesses.
When you start defending what is patently wrong you'll be eaten alive
here. In matters of punctuation and grammar, it's far better here to
assume that the criticism is deserved. You can defend what you think
you said, but not how you said it.
The "How should I have written it?" approach usually produces soft
answers. Take comfort in there's something that you do that you can
do far better than anyone else here can do. It's just that it's not
grammatical construction.
Robert Lieblich - 29 Jan 2004 04:48 GMT
> >> I am almost 3/4th of the way though 'Brinkley's Beat'.
> >> The man is a damn good writer.
>
> > I believe Mr. Writer died of a heart attack a few months ago.
Dammit, Freck. That's not what I wrote. I do you the courtesy of
leaving your words unedited, elisions (always indicated) aside. You
might do me the same courtesy.
What I wrote was "Writter." I wrote it because you had written
"writter." You cleaned that up, too. For shame. No one reading
your post could possibly understand what I had intended. And what I
had intended was a pun on the name of John Ritter, television star,
who died suddenly of a heart attack on September 12, 2003. The pun
was triggered by your original misspelling of "writer" as "writter."
> He died in June 2003.
Yes, Brinkley did. That wasn't my point.
> David Brinkely's style looks simple, is very
> easy to read, funny more often than sad, and is easy to follow. He
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> various regoins and broadly discussed the present, the past, and the
> future outlook for a rapidly moderizing region.
Brinkley was an excellent writer. I enjoyed his spoken commentaries
at the end of *This Week* and I have enjoyed the excerpts I have
read from *Washington Goes to War*. If you could write half as well
as Brinkley I wouldn't find you so annoying or treat you as I do.
> >> His treatment of Theodore Bilbo is really excellent;>
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> You never fail to be funny. LOL. He he he...
Well, we have to take our grateful audiences where we find them.
> >> his creative juices were really flowing.
>
> > Block that metaphor.
>
> Do you always block words that can be sexually suggestive? Do you
> repress sexual thoughts a lot?
Do you understand anything? It wasn't the content *per se*: it was
the metaphor itself, which is so trite that I would never use it
other than in jest. My sex life is my business.
BTW, do you have any idea where "Block that metaphor" comes from?
If not, why not ask Google?
> >> After reading this book, I will read more by David Brinkley.
>
> > Be still, my heart.
>
> David Brinkley is a very good writer. His style is impressive. I
> will attempt an imprint.
I had no idea. Are you a publisher of some sort? Or should I infer
that you hope that reading David Brinkley will enable you to write
like him? No way.
> >> "Washington Goes to War" is said to be
> >> excellent, is his personal best seller, the book he took the
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> poke fun at typos, minor and major misspellings, gramamatical
> mistakes, ect.
Not if they're endemic. Here's something from the FAQ of this very
newsgroup in which you and I are posting:
"Consider avoiding ... sloppy writing (as distinct from simple slips
like typing errors, or errors from someone whose native language is
not English). Keep in mind that the regulars on alt.usage.english
are probably less willing than the general population to suffer
sloppy writers gladly; and that each article is written by one
person, but read perhaps by thousands, so the convenience of the
readers really ought to have priority over the convenience of the
writer." See
<http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxguidel.html>.
> The use.net is a chat environment, really just a slow
> old style internet bulletin board. Why don't you take it somewhere
> else?
Me? Where else could I have so much fun with English usage and
those who are so bad at it?
> Don't you have places to find friends, to meet with friends,
> places to have fun to go? I really can't imagine "poking fun" at me
> can be such a good use of your time.
It's something I do for fun. And you make it so easy.
> >> the worst thing about NAZIs was that
> >> they declared war on the US according to Bilbo, and he was friend
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> You didn't understand it? It look a bit long, but it doesn't run on.
Here's the full sentence, cut and pasted from your original post:
"He made
international new during wwii, the worst thing about NAZIs was that
they declared war on the US according to Bilbo, and he was friend to
all the major anti-semites in the media." I say that's a run-on.
You wanna disagree, you disagree. You'll be wrong.
> The phrase 'according to Bilbo' could have been at the front part and
> not the back part of the clause.
And it would have had nothing to do with the run-on-hood of the
sentence.
> >> Grammar studies still have my attention.
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Why do you like to use 'We'? Are you a spokesperson for this NG? Do
> you have a sigificant other with who has your back?
I think you left out some words. The attitude this group has
displayed toward you entitles me, I believe, to use the first-person
plural.
> >> I want to read leading journalists writings.>
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> use.net, not enabled.
> Yoda had strange style.
What has this to do with your omission of the necessary apostrophe
from the phrase "journalists' writings"?
> >> After I'm done with Brinkley, I will start anouther.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> They get crazy and quit, or become like the pug teens. You remind me
> of pug teens.
I don't know how to react, because I don't know what you mean by
"pug teen." Google is no help.
[snip much personal confession as irrelevant]
> >> Which journalists do you hold to be best, or your favorite?
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> None of those personalities appeal to me.
I wasn't recommending their personalities. I was recommending their
writing. They're all journalists and all excellent writers. Why do
I bother?
> > When you've finished those, come on back and give us another posting
> > to poke fun at.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> You have always been asking, "Why, Freck, do you post?" or some such.
> Why do you think, I bother?
Why do you bother, I think?
> There is a real reason I've kept at posting to the use.net for the
> last 7 years, I bet you can' t guess?
It's things like that question mark that drive those of us with an
eye for language half berserk. BTW, the sentence is another run-on.
I assume there's some reason why you keep posting, but I can't
imagine what it is. Telling me I can't guess isn't much help. Are
you capable of articulating an answer to that question. Why *do*
you post, Freck?

Signature
Bob Lieblich
Wasting time
John Freck - 29 Jan 2004 13:16 GMT
>>> I believe Mr. Writer died of a heart attack a few months ago.
> Dammit, Freck. That's not what I wrote. I do you the courtesy of
> leaving your words unedited, elisions (always indicated) aside. You
> might do me the same courtesy.
I edited. I don't know, I might do it again, I liked doing it.
<Snip>
> Brinkley was an excellent writer. I enjoyed his spoken commentaries
> at the end of *This Week* and I have enjoyed the excerpts I have
> read from *Washington Goes to War*. If you could write half as well
> as Brinkley I wouldn't find you so annoying or treat you as I do.
I hope to improve, but given the gravity that I hold for this usenet
NG, or any of them, I will still take less time editing and proofing.
Tf you want perfection, seek it in yourself and not me.
<Snip>
>>>> . . . his creative juices were really flowing.
>>> Block that metaphor.
>> Do you always block words that can be sexually
>> suggestive? Do you repress sexual thoughts a lot?
> Do you understand anything? It wasn't the content *per se*: it was
> the metaphor itself, which is so trite that I would never use it
> other than in jest. My sex life is my business.
Yes, and I'm sorry.
<Snip>
> I had no idea. Are you a publisher of some sort?
> Or should I infer that you hope that reading
> David Brinkley will enable you to write like him?
> No way.
I recall that idea from high school, it is an educational idea
(imprinting) that has been used at least for 2 decades. You haven't
heard of imprinting' used by educators and trainers? Well, I have.
>> Writers who work for newspapers work under bosses who are called
>> editor, and there is an editor called a proof editor too. Do you
know
>> the typical job descriptions of each? Look, Robert, it is rude to
>> poke fun at typos, minor and major misspellings, grammatical
>> mistakes, ect.
> Not if they're endemic. Here's something from the FAQ of this very
> newsgroup in which you and I are posting:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> writer." See
> <http://www.alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxguidel.html>.
You are too worried over writter' and 'journalists'.
But, this is a enjoyment, as you say.
>> The use.net is a chat environment, really just a slow
>> old style internet bulletin board. Why don't you take
>> it somewhere else?
> Me? Where else could I have so much fun with English usage and
> those who are so bad at it?
Teach middle school teens! Clearly, America needs people like you in
our middle school classrooms.
<Snip>
John Freck