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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2004Roiling for Poor Skitt
My nerves aren't good enough to post this in that awful wandering thread supposedly about electric kettles. Think water, Skitt, think fish. See http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22roiling+water%22+fish and then look at the "A Casualty of a Roiling Music Industry" article yesterday in the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/27/arts/music/27REID.html). In sympathy, \ Aokay (A Canadian from Muskoka, eh? -- resident in Prague) > My nerves aren't good enough to post this in that awful wandering > thread supposedly about electric kettles. > > Think water, Skitt, think fish. See http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22roiling+water%22+fish > and then look at the "A Casualty of a Roiling Music Industry" > article yesterday in the NY Times > (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/27/arts/music/27REID.html). All good uses of "roiling". When enough heat is applied to water, that also causes roiling. Same kettle of fish.  SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ >> My nerves aren't good enough to post this in that awful wandering >> thread supposedly about electric kettles. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >All good uses of "roiling". When enough heat is applied to water, that also >causes roiling. Same kettle of fish. And when it is sufficiently roiled it is at a rolling boil. Brian > And when it is sufficiently roiled it is at a rolling boil. I was suprised to see dictionary.com list 'roil' as 'origin unknown'. Perhaps it's 'rile' + 'boil'? > > And when it is sufficiently roiled it is at a rolling boil. > > I was suprised to see dictionary.com list 'roil' as 'origin unknown'. > Perhaps it's 'rile' + 'boil'? Both M-W and AHD say that "rile" comes from "roil," so that's the other way around. That i/oi thing turns up in some dialectal pronunciations -- pi-zn for poison, bile for boil, some others I can't remember. Then, in England, it goes the other way, toime for time, and all that. I get the feeling that that is becoming so common that people there don't notice it -- but then I'm going to start sounding like ala. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux [ . . . ] > Then, in England, it goes the other way, toime for time, and all that. I > get the feeling that that is becoming so common that people there don't > notice it -- but then I'm going to start sounding like ala. If you sounded like a1a you would be safe from contradiction. How could anyone contradict you if they had no idea what you were trying to say? > [ . . . ] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > contradiction. How could anyone contradict you if they had > no idea what you were trying to say? Oh, that doesn't stop some people. But are you saying that you have no idea of what I'm trying to say? SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >>And when it is sufficiently roiled it is at a rolling boil. > > I was suprised to see dictionary.com list 'roil' as 'origin unknown'. > Perhaps it's 'rile' + 'boil'? [COD10] – ORIGIN C16: perh. from OFr. ruiler ‘mix mortar’. [SOED5 reports] the _noun_ (1. Orig., a large powerful horse. Later, an inferior or spiritless horse. LME–L16. 2. transf. A large ungainly woman. M16–L18.) as "of obscure origin." There is another noun, obviously based on the verb ( 1. Make (liquid) turbid or muddy by disturbing the sediment; fig. disturb, disorder. L16 b. Disturb in temper; irritate, make angry. Cf. RILE verb 1a. M18. 2. Move in a confused or turbulent manner. M20.) identified as "Perh. from Old French ruiler mix mortar from late Latin regulare REGULATE. See also RILE verb & noun." There is also a verb († 1. Roam or rove about. ME–E17. † 2. Of the eyes: roll. rare. Only in LME. 3. Play or frolic, esp. in a rough manner; romp. L18.) which is "Prob. from Old French roillier, roeillier roll, rel. to roelle wheel." [OED2] adds two adjectival uses of "roil," separates the "Roam or rove about" verb into possibly two chains, notes that the source for the "ruiler" etymology is Godefroy, and adds another verbal sense, "to salt fish" "of doubtful origin." SignatureMartin Ambuhl >> My nerves aren't good enough to post this in that awful wandering >> thread supposedly about electric kettles. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >All good uses of "roiling". When enough heat is applied to water, that also >causes roiling. Same kettle of fish. Indeed water is roiled/roiling when it is boiling. I know that and you know that. Unlike the people who so ignorantly tried to put you down in that other thread -- I think you mislaid my closing 'in sympathy' -- you certainly snipped it. If 'same kettle of fish' is intended as another shot in that thread, I think, with respect, that you may be off base. 'Bring to a rolling boll' may be said to be idiomatic; 'roiling boil,' although used, has not the same status. Regards, \ Aokay (A Canadian from Muskoka, eh? -- resident in Prague) >>> My nerves aren't good enough to post this in that awful wandering >>> thread supposedly about electric kettles. >>> >>> Think water, Skitt, think fish. See http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22roiling+water%22+fish >>> and then look at the "A Casualty of a Roiling Music Industry" >>> article yesterday in the NY Times [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > you down in that other thread -- I think you mislaid my closing > 'in sympathy' -- you certainly snipped it. Ah, I didn't want to keep that -- it made me feel, how you say, embarrassed. > If 'same kettle of fish' is intended as another shot in that > thread, I think, with respect, that you may be off base. 'Bring to > a rolling boll' may be said to be idiomatic; 'roiling boil,' > although used, has not the same status. Hmm. Maybe to some it is. Who knows? It certainly is to me, but that's possibly just me and not worth worrying about. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ |
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