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Discussion Groups / English Usage / April 2008Minor Public School
While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being able to identify which are the *major*, or not minor, public schools. If all of the public schools in the UK are 100%, then what percentage might be "minor"? Is there a bracket above "minor" but not quite "major"? Last, what is the opposite of "minor"? Normally we use "major" and "minor" as opposites, but I wonder if public schools fit this rubric. Somehow I feel that "sound", or "good", or "quite acceptable" would be more appropriate than "major".  SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", I > find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being > able to identify which are the *major*, or not minor, public schools. My dear chap, if you need to ask... > > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", I > > find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being > > able to identify which are the *major*, or not minor, public schools. > > My dear chap, if you need to ask... If you don't know you shouldn't reply. >> My dear chap, if you need to ask... > > If you don't know you shouldn't reply. Sir, if you need to ask how much it costs you can't afford it. If you need to ask which are the major public schools then you are certainly not going to be sending your son to one of them: it is of no concern to you. If you want a sensible answer I suggest you find out which schools the Tory front bench and the members of the first division civil servants went to. > >> My dear chap, if you need to ask... > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Tory front bench and the members of the first division civil servants > went to. As I previously said. if you don't know don't answer. > > > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", I > > > find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If you don't know you shouldn't reply. He who knows does not speak. He who speaks does not know. Who is "he"? SignatureBob Lieblich, AmEclectic Who speaks, ergo does not know >> > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", I >> > find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >If you don't know you shouldn't reply. Bad show, Ray. You're just going to prove that thing about Americans if you keep on this way. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >> > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", I > >> > find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Bad show, Ray. You're just going to prove that thing about Americans > if you keep on this way. So far I've seen a legit question and 3 folks who can't answer make flip replies the wrongly imagine are witty. Par for the course here. And if you actually read posts from the third worlders{Europeans and the like} you'll see for all their bluster they know little. >> >> > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >And if you actually read posts from the third worlders{Europeans and the >like} you'll see for all their bluster they know little. Well, as the OP and the question-asker, I think the answers have been rather good. It's not like I expected that very specific answers would have been possible. The line between "minor" and whatever is above "minor" is not likely to be carved in stone. Drifting a bit...I notice (not here, but elsewhere) that some Brits can manage to say "Oh, mine was a very minor public school" while somehow implying that their school was not minor at all. Sort of a false diffidence. The impression they give is that their school, while not a major name in schools, was indeed exclusive but that the hearer is not the right sort to have even heard about it. A bit like the person who says they worked for the government but aren't at liberty to say in what capacity. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida [...] > Drifting a bit...I notice (not here, but elsewhere) that some Brits > can manage to say "Oh, mine was a very minor public school" while > somehow implying that their school was not minor at all. Sort of a > false diffidence. The impression they give is that their school, > while not a major name in schools, was indeed exclusive but that the > hearer is not the right sort to have even heard about it. I really think he's got it! [...] SignatureLes >[...] > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >[...] Fot those of us Brits who didn't go to a public school the question of whether a public school is major or minor is of purely academic interest. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > Drifting a bit...I notice (not here, but elsewhere) that some Brits > can manage to say "Oh, mine was a very minor public school" while > somehow implying that their school was not minor at all. I'm sure plenty of Americans who go to lesser-known small, elite colleges like Bard and Swarthmore have a similar ability. ¬R >>>>> While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public >>>>> school", I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > And if you actually read posts from the third worlders{Europeans and > the like} you'll see for all their bluster they know little. You really do believe in digging faster the nearer you get to the bottom of the hole, don't you? Never mind: you've got Jan in there to talk to. SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> >> > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >I >> >> > find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being >> >> > able to identify which are the *major*, or not minor, public schools. >> >> >> >> My dear chap, if you need to ask... That reply falls in the same broad category as "If you need to ask the price you can't afford it." Which, come to think of it probably applies to the fees charged by the leading Public Schools. >> >If you don't know you shouldn't reply. Oh, he knows; he knows. Humour doesn't always cross cultural boundaries. >> Bad show, Ray. You're just going to prove that thing about Americans >> if you keep on this way. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >And if you actually read posts from the third worlders{Europeans and the >like} you'll see for all their bluster they know little. "Third Worlders"? Now let's see. The beings called Homo Sapiens evolved from something else in what we now call Africa. They then spread to more northerly areas of Mainland Earth which we now call Europe and Asia. Eventually they spread to what we now call the Americas. First World: Africa, Second World: Europe and Asia, Third World: The Americas. Fourth World: Who knows? Underground? In the oceans? The Moon? Mars? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) BrE filted: >Now let's see. The beings called Homo Sapiens evolved from >something else in what we now call Africa. They then spread to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Fourth World: Who knows? Underground? In the oceans? The Moon? >Mars? Nice try, but everyone in my circle knows the *real* meaning of these terms: First world: NTSC Second world: PAL Third world: SECAM (DVD region-encoding seems to bear this out)....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >BrE filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >(DVD region-encoding seems to bear this out)....r Hmm. Fourth World: Rasterworld? This should not be confused with Rastaworld. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >BrE filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >(DVD region-encoding seems to bear this out)....r Secam, is France now 3rd world? irwell filted: >> First world: NTSC >> Second world: PAL [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Secam, is France now 3rd world? These are people who eat *snails*, fer cryin' out loud....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? > irwell filted: >> >>> First world: NTSC Never Twice the Same Colour? >>> Second world: PAL >>> Third world: SECAM [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > These are people who eat *snails*, fer cryin' out loud....r Protein, crawling all over the garrigue, too slow to run away. Pity not to take advantage. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to investigate garrigue. SignatureDavid >irwell filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >These are people who eat *snails*, fer cryin' out loud....r but also have TGV trains, Champagne and Sarkozy. Hardly 3rd worldish. >>BrE filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Secam, is France now 3rd world? They're in a world of their own. > >BrE filted: > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Secam, is France now 3rd world?- Hide quoted text - Let's keep telling people it is. It will cut down on the crowding when we're there. John Kane Kingston ON Canada > On 22 Apr 2008 11:22:12 -0700, R H Drany wrote: > >Nice try, but everyone in my circle knows the *real* meaning of > >these terms: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Secam, is France now 3rd world?- Hide quoted text - : Let's keep telling people it is. It will cut down on the crowding : when we're there. I'm there/here just now. And it's not crowded ... at least, not in these rural parts. One thing I've noticed in the last year or so ... the demise of the archetypal French driver. The rapid growth here of roadside surveillance means that everyone now drives pretty much within the limit. Philip Eden Haute Vienne Philip Eden filted: >the demise of the archetypal French driver. The rapid growth here >of roadside surveillance means that everyone now drives pretty >much within the limit. Resolved: that the French are just like everyone else if they think they're being watched....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? On Apr 23, 11:55 am, "Philip Eden" <philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom> wrote: > > On 22 Apr 2008 11:22:12 -0700, R H Drany wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I'm there/here just now. And it's not crowded ... at least, not in > these rural parts. I don't think the tourist crowds really get there this early. I've noticed Paris is fairly incrowded in late March or early April but we do want to keep it that way. > One thing I've noticed in the last year or so > ... > the demise of the archetypal French driver. The rapid growth here > of roadside surveillance means that everyone now drives pretty > much within the limit. Good lord, does that mean there are speed limits on the B roads? Last couple of times I was there I was cycling or by train so I may have missed it or is this in the last 4-5 years? As a cyclist, I found French drivers excellent. John Kane Kingston ON Canada > On Apr 23, 11:55 am, "Philip Eden" <philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > noticed Paris is fairly incrowded in late March or early April but we > do want to keep it that way. There's no such concept as "crowded" where Philip is. I mean, if I'm nearby as well they think there's suddenly an awful lot of people around. SignatureDavid > >> > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", I > >> > find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Bad show, Ray. You're just going to prove that thing about Americans > if you keep on this way. Don't quibble. It was a nice exchange, and it demonstrated precisely what was to be demonstrated, Jan >>>> While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public >>>> school", I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Bad show, Ray. You're just going to prove that thing about Americans > if you keep on this way. I don't think anybody's ever accused him of being typical. Anyhow, as a broad-brush answer, if nearly everybody in the country's heard of a public school, it's major, and if hardly anybody has, it's minor. I'd say the in-between group is nearer major than minor. "Minor" does /not/ denote inferior quality of education, though there are some seriously dim dumps. "Major" is certainly Eton, Winchester, Harrow; after that I'm not at all sure, but probably add Charterhouse, Clifton, Fettes, Cheltenham, and a couple I can't think of offhand; then Shrewsbury, Radley, Gordonstoun, Rugby etc. SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", > I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > might be "minor"? Is there a bracket above "minor" but not quite > "major"? About 99.9% (see below) I went to Alleyns, which is undoubtedly minor, (None of R.E. L maunsell's 'Schools' class of Southern Railway locomotives was named after it) (Maunsell was educated at the Royal School, Armagh) > Last, what is the opposite of "minor"? Public schools are often divided into "major" and "minor", but these are not official definitions and the inclusion of a school in one or the other group is purely subjective. One definition might be those schools whose ex-pupils are entitled to join the Butterflies Cricket Club which was founded by an old Rugbiean. Only players who came from what were and are considered the major public schools were allowed to play. The schools included Charterhouse, Eton, Harrow, Marlborough, Oakham, Rugby, Westminster and Winchester. Apart from those eight, there are over 2500 independent schools in the UK. >> While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >> I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Oakham, Rugby, Westminster and Winchester. Apart from those eight, > there are over 2500 independent schools in the UK. I don't think Oakham or Marlborough would be counted as "major" (Marlborough lacks the required antiquity). St Paul's, though missing from Contrex's list, is certainly "major", but unlike the others is predominantly a day school. Alan Jones >> While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >> I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >Oakham, Rugby, Westminster and Winchester. Apart from those eight, >there are over 2500 independent schools in the UK. You used a crucial word there. For those who are not familiar with the British (and Irish) education system, the phrase "public school" refers to a school in the private sector. It is an independent school. From the OED: 1. Originally, in Britain and Ireland: any of a class of grammar schools founded or endowed for public use and subject to public management or control (freq. contrasted with private school: cf. private school n. at PRIVATE adj.1, adv., and n. Special uses 2). The following is today's meaning: Later, chiefly from the 19th cent. and also in some other countries of the former British Empire: a fee-paying secondary school which developed from former endowed grammar[1] schools, or was modelled on similar lines, and which takes pupils from beyond the local constituency and usually offers boarding facilities. Down to the 18th cent. public school was very generally opposed to 'private school', and education in a 'public school' was also contrasted with education at home under a tutor .... The term was officially used in July 1860 in the appointment of a Royal Commission, and in 1867 in 'An Act for the better government and extension of certain Public Schools'. As this act applied to the ancient endowed grammar schools or colleges of Eton, Winchester, Westminster, Harrow, Rugby, Charterhouse, and Shrewsbury, these have sometimes been spoken of as 'the Seven Public Schools'; but the name is generally used to include other schools of similar organization. Traditionally, pupils in the higher forms were prepared mainly for the universities and for public service. [1] In BrE a grammar school a type of high school. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [quoting the OED on "public school"] > The term was officially used in July 1860 in the > appointment of a Royal Commission, and in 1867 in 'An Act [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the name is generally used to include other schools of > similar organization. Those seven are, or at least were, known as the "Clarendon Schools", Lord Clarendon having been the chairman of the Commission. They are regarded as being a cut above other public schools, but there is a debatable middle ground between them and those which are referred to as "minor". SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" >[quoting the OED on "public school"] > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >debatable middle ground between them and those which are referred to >as "minor". The IV top universities in the USA are Ivy League. >>[quoting the OED on "public school"] >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > The IV top universities in the USA are Ivy League. There never were four of them. It's all about ivy-covered walls. Ivy eats away the mortar, and the buildings fall down, but it looks pretty. --Jeff Signature"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist." - Winston Churchill, Nov. 21, 1943 >For those who are not familiar with the British (and Irish) >education system, the phrase "public school" refers to a school [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >[1] In BrE a grammar school a type of high school. I was under the impression that being a Public School (in the British sense) somehow was also a function of membership in something called "The Headmaster's Conference" or something named along those lines. A big point was made at the school I attended that it was one of only two such schools overseas - namely Prince of Wales (in Kenya where I went) and Geelong in Australia (where Prince Charles spent some time IIRC). Our cross-town rivals (Duke of York) were not so blessed, so we could look down our collective noses at them. And besides, we had at least one VC and a whole gaggle of DSO's and DFC's and George Crosses and so forth - much more than they had - but they hadn't been around as long, so not quite fair. Jitze >>For those who are not familiar with the British (and Irish) >>education system, the phrase "public school" refers to a school [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >in something called "The Headmaster's Conference" or something >named along those lines. That is now the _Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference_ http://www.hmc.org.uk/ The Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference (HMC) represents the Heads of some 250 leading independent schools in the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. HMC has a further 60 or so international members, up to 30 additional members (Heads of maintained schools in the UK), and 40 Honorary Associate members (retired members). HMC exists to serve and support its members, to represent their views and to exemplify excellence in education. Technically, it is an association of heads rather than schools. I don't know what happens when a head leaves a school. Does the new head have to apply for membership of the HMC (if not already one)? And to what extent does the nature and prestige of the school qualify its head for membership? A former co-worker of mine used to teach at Bangor Grammar School (Northern Ireland). Her comments were dismissive when she heard that the head was joining the HMC. Words like "grandiose" and "ideas above his station" were heard. >A big point was made at the school I attended that it was one >of only two such schools overseas - namely Prince of Wales >(in Kenya where I went) and Geelong in Australia (where >Prince Charles spent some time IIRC). I see that both The Geelong College and Geelong Grammar School are members. > Our cross-town >rivals (Duke of York) were not so blessed, so we could look >down our collective noses at them. And besides, we had >at least one VC and a whole gaggle of DSO's and DFC's >and George Crosses and so forth - much more than they >had - but they hadn't been around as long, so not quite fair. ObAsia/Middle East: the list of international members of HMC has the following geographical groupings: AFRICA ASIA - Indonesia, Brunei, Hong Kong INDIA PAKISTAN AUSTRALIA & NEW ZEALAND EUROPE MIDDLE EAST - Oman[1], UAE CENTRAL & SOUTH AMERICA CANADA BERMUDA [1] The Indian School, Oman. There's cross-cultural for you, boy. (Spoken with a poor Welsh accent) SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> A big point was made at the school I attended that it was one >> of only two such schools overseas - namely Prince of Wales [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I see that both The Geelong College and Geelong Grammar School > are members. Geelong Grammar was Charlie's, but not in Geelong. He was at their Timbertop campus near Mansfield. Geelong College is a bit more down-market than Grammar. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au [ ... ] > A big point was made at the school I attended that it was one > of only two such schools overseas - namely Prince of Wales [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Jitze " ... our collective noses ... " ? SignatureFrank ess >> A big point was made at the school I attended that it was one >> of only two such schools overseas - namely Prince of Wales [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > ? Not uncommon in UK English. I presume the meaning is pretty clear. SignatureDavid >[ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >? Collectively, we as a group, looked down our noses. Is that better? I'm not sure what your question mark indicates, but this strikes me as a perfectly OK way to express the thought. Or is it pondial? Jitze >> [ ... ] >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I'm not sure what your question mark indicates, but this strikes > me as a perfectly OK way to express the thought. Or is it pondial? No, it sounds perfectly ordinary to me. SignatureDavid >>[ ... ] >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >I'm not sure what your question mark indicates, but this strikes >me as a perfectly OK way to express the thought. Or is it pondial? We Canadians, sitting on our collective a.ses, reading this, are fine with it. >>>[ ... ] >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >We Canadians, sitting on our collective a.ses, reading this, are fine >with it. That's a lot of snot, and the other stuff. [...] >>>> rivals (Duke of York) were not so blessed, so we could look >>>> down our collective noses at them. And besides, we had [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > We Canadians, sitting on our collective a.ses, reading this, are fine > with it. I think "our collective [plural noun]" is wrong, because redundant: I don't see that "collective" adds any meaning. This usage seems to me appropriate only with singulars: "we looked down our collective nose", "we sat on our collective arse/a.s/ace". But of course those are mildly jocular: it's used seriously in such phrases as "collective wisdom" and "collective unconscious". SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** > [...] >>>>> rivals (Duke of York) were not so blessed, so we could look [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > are mildly jocular: it's used seriously in such phrases as > "collective wisdom" and "collective unconscious". Bingo. Mildly jocular exclamation point. Unless the noses become one nose, no point in "collective", my view. SignatureFrank ess >[...] >>>>> rivals (Duke of York) were not so blessed, so we could look [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >jocular: it's used seriously in such phrases as "collective wisdom" and >"collective unconscious". You're right about the redundancy, but it's what we often, if not usually, say. >>> While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >>> I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>> might be "minor"? Is there a bracket above "minor" but not quite >>> "major"? >> About 99.9% (see below) >> >> I went to Alleyns, which is undoubtedly minor, (None of R.E. L >> maunsell's 'Schools' class of Southern Railway locomotives was named >> after it) (Maunsell was educated at the Royal School, Armagh) >>> Last, what is the opposite of "minor"? >> Public schools are often divided into "major" and "minor", but these >> are not official definitions and the inclusion of a school in one or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> Oakham, Rugby, Westminster and Winchester. Apart from those eight, >> there are over 2500 independent schools in the UK. > You used a crucial word there. > > For those who are not familiar with the British (and Irish) > education system, the phrase "public school" refers to a school > in the private sector. It is an independent school. If one hears "he went to a public school" or "he is a public schoolboy", the assumption will be that he went to one of a fairly small number of schools - I'm not sure if the eight named above are strictly the canonical ones, but it wouldn't be much more than this. As noted, there are many more schools which have a similar set-up (fee-paying, not part of the state education system, pupils board there), but are less well known and less prestigious. In a sense these are "public schools", but to indicate they aren't the top-ranking ones, the word "minor public school" would be used. So you could say the opposite of "minor public school" is "public school". Matthew Huntbach contrex wrote, in <db8440fe-9354-4973-b64a-d14aab94c864@24g2000hsh.googlegroups.com> on Sun, 20 Apr 2008 11:58:49 -0700 (PDT): > > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", > > I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Oakham, Rugby, Westminster and Winchester. Apart from those eight, > there are over 2500 independent schools in the UK. I don't think the phrase 'major public school' is much used, if at all. Like you I was at a minor one, Gresham's, which grew out of a grammar school founded in 1555 in the early 20th century. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > I don't think the phrase 'major public school' is much used, if at all. > Like you I was at a minor one, Gresham's, which grew out of a grammar > school founded in 1555 in the early 20th century. Holt? Cor, we learn things about our RRs every day. Were you local? My parents lived in the village of Gresham for a few years when they first retired. Dad's school, Warwick, was and is probably "minor", but he is fond of explaining that it was founded more than 1000 years ago. My grammar school was founded in 1955, which I rarely bother to mention. SignatureDavid >> I don't think the phrase 'major public school' is much used, if at all. >> Like you I was at a minor one, Gresham's, which grew out of a grammar [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > explaining that it was founded more than 1000 years ago. My grammar > school was founded in 1955, which I rarely bother to mention. Katy E and I went to a very illustrious school founded in 1850. I see that Wiki includes the odd sentence: It is generally recognised as the first ambitious girls' school in the United Kingdom, as it was the first to offer girls the same educational opportunities as boys. I wonder whether "ambitious" applies to the girls or the school. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) In alt.usage.english, LFS wrote: >>> I don't think the phrase 'major public school' is much used, if at >>>all. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Katy E and I went to a very illustrious school founded in 1850. You've prompted me to look up the founding dates of my old schools. The answers are 1553, 1509, 1557, and 1850-ish[1]. That last one seems very modern, and IIRC, seemed so at the time. [1] I'm being deliberately vague because "the last school attended" has been used a security question. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > [1] I'm being deliberately vague because "the last school attended" has > been used a security question. Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last school attended would be simplicity itself to discover, although the name was so long and subject to change during my 7 years there, I could write it in all sorts of different ways. SignatureDavid >> [1] I'm being deliberately vague because "the last school attended" has >> been used a security question. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >name was so long and subject to change during my 7 years there, I could >write it in all sorts of different ways. My favourite way of handling security questions is where both the question and answer are provided by the person who has to answer it. It allows for questions that are virtually impossible to guess by any means, yet can be very easily remembered. The last time I supplied one, I chose the name of a person, where he lived with relation to a town, and made the following Q&A: Q: How far was Andy? A: 12 miles west. That was not, of course, the actual data, but you get the idea. In alt.usage.english, Oleg Lego wrote: >My favourite way of handling security questions is where both the >question and answer are provided by the person who has to answer it. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >That was not, of course, the actual data, but you get the idea. My usual technique is to choose the names of a couple from the distant past, e.g. Q: Craig and who? A: Elisabeth SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England Mike Barnes filted: >My usual technique is to choose the names of a couple from the distant >past, e.g. > >Q: Craig and who? >A: Elisabeth "Right" answer for anyone who's done any home recording is "erton"....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? In alt.usage.english, R H Draney wrote: >Mike Barnes filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >"Right" answer for anyone who's done any home recording is "erton"....r :-) Never heard of him before. Not sure he's my thing, really. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >>> [1] I'm being deliberately vague because "the last school attended" >>> has been used a security question. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > That was not, of course, the actual data, but you get the idea. I do much the same thing. My thinking is that the entity asking for it will only know the answer *I gave*, not whether it's correct or not. Since many banks still insist on "Mother's maiden name" as the question, and that is no longer terribly difficult to find out, I haven't given her correct name in years. The name one company has on record as my mother's maiden name is really the name of my husband's third cat. >>>> [1] I'm being deliberately vague because "the last school attended" >>>> has been used a security question. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >her correct name in years. The name one company has on record as my >mother's maiden name is really the name of my husband's third cat. The next sound you hear will be my hand, slapping my forehead. It always bothers me when I see such easily figured out questions. I never thought to provide an answer that was not easy to figure out. Thanks! In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >> [1] I'm being deliberately vague because "the last school attended" has >> been used a security question. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >name was so long and subject to change during my 7 years there, I could >write it in all sorts of different ways. I'm not sure that my "last school attended" would be easy to discover. Anyone here is welcome to have a crack at it. "First school attended" is another question they ask. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > "First school attended" is another question they ask. I meant in my case, e.g. via Friends Re-untied. SignatureDavid > I'm not sure that my "last school attended" would be easy to discover. Anyone > here is welcome to have a crack at it. Army radar school. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. In alt.usage.english, John Varela wrote: >> I'm not sure that my "last school attended" would be easy to >>discover. Anyone > >> here is welcome to have a crack at it. > >Army radar school. No... I'm not sure it's really worth anyone's time and effort. Or did I miss a joke? SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'm not sure that my "last school attended" would be easy to discover. > Anyone here is welcome to have a crack at it. I thought the 1557 was Repton - not sure about the 1850s one, though. Regards Jonathan In alt.usage.english, Jonathan Morton wrote: >> In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >I thought the 1557 was Repton Indeed, Googling "school" "founded" "1557" throws up (1) this thread, and (2) a lot of hits for Repton, and (3) considerably fewer hits for Brentwood (rating: very minor), where I unknowingly rubbed shoulders with Douglas Adams, Jack Straw, and Noel Edmonds. > - not sure about the 1850s one, though. Not really worth bothering with. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: > >Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last > >school attended would be simplicity itself to discover, although the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > "First school attended" is another question they ask. I've never been asked about my school as a security question. Is it a Pondian thing? The usual ones I run into are my mother's maiden name, the name of my pet, or my birthplace (all of which I've divulged in AUE, whoops). SignatureSML >> In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > The usual ones I run into are my mother's maiden name, the name of my > pet, or my birthplace (all of which I've divulged in AUE, whoops). The only time I ever tried to communicate with my British bank by telephone, they didn't ask any of the questions they said they'd ask at the time I opened the account (mother's maiden name, etc.), but instead asked the sort of questions only someone very young (with just one account and don't have any half-forgotten accounts with 10 p left in them) or very interested in bank accounts would know (Q. How many accounts do you have in this bank? A. Don't know, it depends how you count them. Q. What type of account do you have apart from your current account? A. Don't know, it depends on what name you're using at the moment (note that "saving account" wasn't precise enough; it needed to be "Instant Saver" or some such thing)). After two or three exchanges of this kind it became clear to them that I was working for Al Qaeda and a few days later I got a letter informing me that an unauthorized person has been trying to access my account information. Signatureathel >>> In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >and a few days later I got a letter informing me that an unauthorized >person has been trying to access my account information. When I bought my car recently Lexus wanted either a banker's draft or the use of a debit card. Since the balance I had to pay after deducting my deposit and the trade-in allowance for my previous car was quite large (approx $64,000) I warned my bank beforehand and made sure that I was certain of all of my responses to the usual security questions. Instead, they asked me details of some of my standing orders/direct debits, and those for household utilities were not accepted. That nearly threw me. I could remember roughly what I had but not the dates and amounts. The two that worked were memberships of the Mercedes-Benz Club and the ileostomy association (they don't use capitals). But it was a tense moment. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England > When I bought my car recently Lexus wanted either a banker's draft or > the use of a debit card. Since the balance I had to pay after [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of the Mercedes-Benz Club and the ileostomy association (they don't > use capitals). But it was a tense moment. I used my debit card for my Jag, but I didn't think of preparing the ground - I had done it before when buying the Omega. The man asked some of the usual questions and then asked where I had first opened the account (which I have had for more than 30 years). That satisfied him. I moved the relevant amount of cash into the current account a couple of days earlier, which would probably also be a clue that the transaction was likely to be genuine, since I normally keep the account as empty as possible (no interest is paid). SignatureDavid >> [ ... ] >> The only time I ever tried to communicate with my British bank by >> telephone, they didn't ask any of the questions they said they'd ask at [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > orders/direct debits, and those for household utilities were not > accepted. Ah, right, they asked me that as well, and of course I couldn't remember. > That nearly threw me. I could remember roughly what I had > but not the dates and amounts. The two that worked were memberships > of the Mercedes-Benz Club and the ileostomy association (they don't > use capitals). But it was a tense moment. Signatureathel >> When I bought my car recently Lexus wanted either a banker's draft or >> the use of a debit card. Since the balance I had to pay after [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ah, right, they asked me that as well, and of course I couldn't remember. Seems to me that it would be quite suspicious if you could; at least if you could answer all such questions. SignatureDavid > >> When I bought my car recently Lexus wanted either a banker's draft or > >> the use of a debit card. Since the balance I had to pay after [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Seems to me that it would be quite suspicious if you could; at least if > you could answer all such questions. I tend to check my online statement (or have it open in front of me) before contact with the bank because of the questions about how much I spent at Morrison's, or who the direct debit for £5 is to, or how much I pay for my gas. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > > In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: > > >Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > The usual ones I run into are my mother's maiden name, the name of my > pet, or my birthplace (all of which I've divulged in AUE, whoops). Anyone know what I might have meant by the hint "Bridge"? I tried some bridges I can name and "Standard American", but no dice. Not that it's important any more. -- Jerry Friedman has revealed he plays a beginner's bidding system. jerry_friedman@yahoo.com filted: >Anyone know what I might have meant by the hint "Bridge"? I tried >some bridges I can name and "Standard American", but no dice. Then I told you 'bout my kid...now he's married to Mabel....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? > jerry_fried...@yahoo.com filted: > > >Anyone know what I might have meant by the hint "Bridge"? I tried > >some bridges I can name and "Standard American", but no dice. > > Then I told you 'bout my kid...now he's married to Mabel....r Waste of a good SDC question. I didn't know that story, but I think it's "our kid". -- Jerry Friedman jerry_friedman@yahoo.com filted: >> jerry_fried...@yahoo.com filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I didn't know that story, but I think it's "our kid". Agreed...I started to paraphrase it more heavily, decided to change it back to the original grammatical persons, and missed out a pronoun....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >On Apr 21, 3:24 pm, SL...@DELETEcolumbia.edu (Sara Lorimer) wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Anyone know what I might have meant by the hint "Bridge"? I tried >some bridges I can name and "Standard American", but no dice. "A hint too far", perhaps. >Not that it's important any more. > >-- >Jerry Friedman has revealed he plays a beginner's bidding system. If he uses a single die for bidding, he'll never bid a grand slam. Two dice, and any bid of eight to twelve would be quite irregular. Did I ever mention that I once opened the bidding with seven clubs? Made it, too. SignaturePaul > "jerry_fried...@yahoo.com" <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote>On Apr 21, 3:24 pm, SL...@DELETEcolumbia.edu (Sara Lorimer) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > "A hint too far", perhaps. Yep. Maybe I needed Rhine cards. > >Not that it's important any more. > > >-- > >Jerry Friedman has revealed he plays a beginner's bidding system. > > If he uses a single die for bidding, he'll never bid a grand slam. If you roll a six, roll again and if it comes up five or six (you don't want to be too aggressive), bid grand slam. > Two dice, and any bid of eight to twelve would be quite irregular. Confuses the opposition, though. > Did I > ever mention that I once opened the bidding with seven clubs? Made it, too. That must have been exciting. -- Jerry Friedman >On Apr 22, 12:48 pm, Paul Wolff <bounc...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: > >> Did I >> ever mention that I once opened the bidding with seven clubs? Made it, too. > >That must have been exciting. S: A H: void D: A K Q C: A K J 10 8 7 6 5 3 It was a no-brainer, really. 4 cards missing, likely 2-1-1 in the other hands, and Q-x-x with West or Q-x-x-x with either opponent being on balance unlikely. My view, no need to hang about. SignaturePaul > Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last > school attended would be simplicity itself to discover Not to mention potentially variable over time, though possibly not as much so as "favorite pet"--an actual security question that took me more than a day to puzzle out the right answer to a few years later. I can't imagine how anyone ever keeps track of even more ephemeral answers like favorite movies or songs. ¬R > > Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last > > school attended would be simplicity itself to discover [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I can't imagine how anyone ever keeps track of even more ephemeral > answers like favorite movies or songs. I hate any questions that are opinion-based. One institution allowed you write your own question answer pairs. This was good, because they could be factual but obscure, like, "what model was the red truck?" That I know off the top of my head, but would be difficult for a scammer to determine. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >> Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last >> school attended would be simplicity itself to discover [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > imagine how anyone ever keeps track of even more ephemeral answers like > favorite movies or songs. I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is a place, but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. SignatureDavid In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >>> Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last >>> school attended would be simplicity itself to discover [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is a >place, but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. If you tell everyone the same favourite place, therein lies a weakness. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >>>> Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > If you tell everyone the same favourite place, therein lies a weakness. Indeed. As far as I can remember, only one of my online servcies asks this question, which is why I had to spend some time teaching myself to remember what I'd answered. SignatureDavid > > In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: > >>>> Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > this question, which is why I had to spend some time teaching myself to > remember what I'd answered. True story: Believe it or not, I've had trouble because of giving my mother's maiden name. Her mother, named Foote, died in childbirth, and she grew up in the home of her grandparents, named White. Later in life she sometimes called herself Sarah Foote and other times, Sarah White. If I remember having given one of them, it sometimes turns out to have been the other one. >>> Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last >>> school attended would be simplicity itself to discover [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is a place, >but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. "Peyton Place"? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last >>>> school attended would be simplicity itself to discover [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > "Peyton Place"? Not very likely, really, as I never saw it. Chips and place? SignatureDavid > >> I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is a place, > >> but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. > > > > "Peyton Place"? > > Not very likely, really, as I never saw it. Chips and place? "Right earlobe"? SignatureSML >>>> I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is a place, >>>> but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. >>> "Peyton Place"? >> Not very likely, really, as I never saw it. Chips and place? > > "Right earlobe"? Exactly how my mind was working. I've never been asked for "favourite place" but I have found "significant address" quite a challenge. Gettysburg wouldn't do because I couldn't provide a postcode. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >Exactly how my mind was working. I've never been asked for "favourite >place" but I have found "significant address" quite a challenge. >Gettysburg wouldn't do because I couldn't provide a postcode. Surely in every country there must be at least one address that *everyone* knows. Although I suppose that would rather diminish its value as a "security question". I suppose the postal codes are a problem, too -- one can usually guess at the "sorting area" part of the code but the most-specific bits are tough unless you're used to writing or reading that address frequently. (Hmmm. 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Washington, DC 205?? [05? 15?]; 1060 West Addison, Chicago, IL 606??; 24 Sussex Dr., Ottawa, Ont. K1A ??? [not even a glimmer]; 10 Downing St, London SW1A ??? [is it part of 0AA along with the Palace of Westminster?].)[1] -GAWollman [1] Some research shows that Wrigley Field is 60613; the White House is actually 20500 (duh!); I can't seem to get Canada Post to tell me the proper postal for the Prime Minister's Residence; and "Number 10" is actually SW1A 2AA. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >"Number 10" >is actually SW1A 2AA. That made me wonder where SW1A 1AA is. Ah yes. It is the reigning monarch's London offices, function rooms, apartment, stables, gardens and other facilities: Buckingham Palace. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> "Number 10" >> is actually SW1A 2AA. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rooms, apartment, stables, gardens and other facilities: > Buckingham Palace. And W1A 1AA is BBC Broadcasting House. SignatureDavid >>> "Number 10" >>> is actually SW1A 2AA. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >And W1A 1AA is BBC Broadcasting House. And BT1 1AA is the Royal Mail headquarters in Belfast. And M1 1AA is Royal Mail Processing Support (wot's tha' then?). And L1 1AA is Liverpool St. Johns Post Office. I begin to see a pattern, It's very good of the Royal Mail to allow the Queen to use one of their prized postcodes. (Conspiracy theorists might see this as evidence that the Monarchy and the BBC are in fact departments of the Royal Mail.) On the matter of officially supplied numbers, I saw a car in the car park of our local B&Q (DIY shed) a few days ago (April 2008). It was red and had the Totally Appropriate registration number "F430 FER". I'm not sure what the owner of such a vehicle was doing at a relatively downmarket establishment. Perhaps they had spent all their wealth on the car and the number. Googling... I've just found this: http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/sales/registrations.asp Registration Marks F430 FER Suitable for the F430. Yhis reg is for this car, no other reg like this one, is valued at GBP 17950 [USD 35,787] with reg transfers.co.uk for me, but I will take GBP 13500 [USD 26,915] for it. (3/2008) If the number was not on a matching car at that time (March 2008) then I saw the car to which it had been transferred. On my way to B&Q on the occasion of that sighting I found myself stopped at lights immediately behind a Land Rover Discovery that was towering over my Vauxhall Corsa. Just below my eye height was the number plate: BIG nnnn. "Appropriate", thought I. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > On my way to B&Q on the occasion of that sighting I found myself > stopped at lights immediately behind a Land Rover Discovery that > was towering over my Vauxhall Corsa. Just below my eye height > was the number plate: BIG nnnn. "Appropriate", thought I. I once saw the late, unlamented, "comedian" Bernard Manning in Manchester, driving a Rolls Royce with the number: 1 LAF. I didn't. SignatureDavid >> On my way to B&Q on the occasion of that sighting I found myself >> stopped at lights immediately behind a Land Rover Discovery that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I once saw the late, unlamented, "comedian" Bernard Manning in > Manchester, driving a Rolls Royce with the number: 1 LAF. I didn't. Obviously there was only one, and you missed it. --Jeff Signature"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist." - Winston Churchill, Nov. 21, 1943 > >>> "Number 10" > >>> is actually SW1A 2AA. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > was towering over my Vauxhall Corsa. Just below my eye height > was the number plate: BIG nnnn. "Appropriate", thought I. I saw a few years ago a nice little sportscar with the plate L1 NUX. And on the Isle of Wight last summer we encountered a sportscar with the plate N10 OWM. We both got that one at the same time - just as it pulled away from the traffic lights. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>> "Number 10" >>> is actually SW1A 2AA. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And W1A 1AA is BBC Broadcasting House. My father, working there when the code came in, told me it with the caution that it didn't mean the Beeb had moved to a little-known Polynesian island. SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** I can't seem to get Canada Post to tell me > the proper postal for the Prime Minister's Residence; That is wierd isn't it. It should be K1A OB? IIRC the GG's Postal Code is K1A OB1 so logically the PM's code should be something line K1A OB2. I don't think these codes would necessarily strictly geographical though the K1A obviously is Ottawa. Some codes are essentially mail bag codes. I am pretty sure the GG's is that way and presumably the PM would be John Kane Kingston ON Canada >I can't seem to get Canada Post to tell me >> the proper postal for the Prime Minister's Residence; [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >IIRC the GG's Postal Code is K1A OB1 so logically the PM's code should >be something line K1A OB2. I just had the strangest stream of thought. I looked at that postal code, and immediately thought of the Star Wars films and Obi Wan Kenobi. > I don't think these codes would >necessarily strictly geographical though the K1A obviously is Ottawa. >Some codes are essentially mail bag codes. I am pretty sure the GG's >is that way and presumably the PM would be > >John Kane Kingston ON Canada >>I can't seem to get Canada Post to tell me >>> the proper postal for the Prime Minister's Residence; [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >code, and immediately thought of the Star Wars films and Obi Wan >Kenobi. I had a similar thought. >> I don't think these codes would >>necessarily strictly geographical though the K1A obviously is Ottawa. >>Some codes are essentially mail bag codes. I am pretty sure the GG's >>is that way and presumably the PM would be >> >>John Kane Kingston ON Canada SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On Apr 23, 6:03 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: > >>I can't seem to get Canada Post to tell me > >>> the proper postal for the Prime Minister's Residence; [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I had a similar thought. Obi Wan Kenobi is not give a valid postal code as the order is reversed. Besides I don't think he lives in or around Ottawa John Kane Kingston ON Canada >>> Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last >>> school attended would be simplicity itself to discover [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is a place, >but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. In the spirit of Barbara's technique, I can think of many a good answer to that one. In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is a >place, but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. What I *really* hate is when I answer (say) "bed", then it says "Your answer must be at least six characters". Grrrrr! SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England Mike Barnes filted: >In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >>I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is a >>place, but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. > >What I *really* hate is when I answer (say) "bed", then it says "Your >answer must be at least six characters". Grrrrr! No, you can't use "Grrrrr" either, because you can't have any repeating letters.... It's sets of rules like these, usually not disclosed until you enter a response that falls short, that has caused my password on more than system to be something like "bitemeshithead"....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >>I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is a >>place, but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. > >What I *really* hate is when I answer (say) "bed", then it says "Your >answer must be at least six characters". Grrrrr! "Waterbed" SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. >> I taught myself the answer to "favourite place". The answer is >> a place, but it's not likely that anybody would guess it. > What I *really* hate is when I answer (say) "bed", then it says > "Your answer must be at least six characters". Grrrrr! bedazzlement bedchamber bedclothes bedaubing bedecking bedesman bedevilment bedewing bedfellow bedighting bedizenment bedlamite bedraggled bedsonia bedstraw bedwetter and many more. ~~~ Reinhold (Rey) Aman ~~~ > Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last > school attended would be simplicity itself to discover. Up to a point. What constitutes a "school"? In the UK it would normally refer to primary and secondary education, but in AmE the place(s) you get your tertiary education are also often referred to as schools. As for the fiirst school attended, it's not so easy to (a) define, (b) remember. I think I attended Mrs Dixon's School for a day or two (but was that a school according to the bank's definition?) before being transferred to the Naval Dockyard School, but I may be imagining that and really started at the Nee Soon Army Garrison School. A few years ago I had 24 hours to kill in Singapore and decided to go to Nee Soon to see if there was anything I recognized. It's still an army base, so I couldn't get inside to see if it still contains a primary school, and is now the home of the 22nd Singapore Infantry Regiment. I was surprised that Singapore is a big enough country to have 22 Infantry Regiments (where on earth do they put them all? Where on earth do they have their mock battles?) but decided that probably not all (if any) of Nos. 1 to 21 exist. Signatureathel Athel Cornish-Bowden filted: >I was surprised that Singapore is a big enough country to >have 22 Infantry Regiments (where on earth do they put them all? Where >on earth do they have their mock battles?) but decided that probably >not all (if any) of Nos. 1 to 21 exist. A lot of people find Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix confusing, particularly Terminal 4...much of the confusion may stem from the fact that the airport has only three terminals....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? > Athel Cornish-Bowden filted: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > A lot of people find Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix confusing, About the only kind of harbor you'd find in Phoenix, eh? > particularly > Terminal 4...much of the confusion may stem from the fact that the airport has > only three terminals....r Shouldn't they be numbered 0, 1 & 2, then? Maybe it's in binary and they just kept shifting the one. --Jeff Signature"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgment of his peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist." - Winston Churchill, Nov. 21, 1943 Jeffrey Turner filted: >> A lot of people find Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix confusing, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Shouldn't they be numbered 0, 1 & 2, then? Maybe it's in binary and >they just kept shifting the one. I've flown from Terminal 1, many years ago...it is no longer possible to do so....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >Jeffrey Turner filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >I've flown from Terminal 1, many years ago...it is no longer possible to do >so....r Bit of a rough take-off was it? SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > Athel Cornish-Bowden filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > particularly Terminal 4...much of the confusion may stem from the > fact that the airport has only three terminals....r San Jose International Airport[1] has two terminals, Terminal A and Terminal C. Terminal C was built in 1965, Terminal A in 1990. They started work on Terminal B in 2005 and it is scheduled to be done in 2010. [1] Sorry, "Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The great thing about Microsoft 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |dominating the world is that Palo Alto, CA 94304 |there's no shortage of support |opportunities. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Sam Alvis (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> Athel Cornish-Bowden filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > [1] Sorry, "Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport". Detroit's (DTW's) Metropolitan Airport doesn't talk of terminal numbers -- except, probably, to pilots. We have the Northwest (or "Midfield" or "McNamara" or "new") Terminal, the Berry Terminal, and the Smith Terminal. Our most recent trip originated from the Northwest Terminal. Having used it before, and having found it to be a nightmare, we were pleased to find everything in better working order this time. Well, except for the near-last-minute gate change, but that's probably not uncommon. I still prefer either the Smith or the Berry. Old, not too busy, but easy to get around in. Bishop Airport (Flint, MI) is even easier to get around in, but many of the flights leave there with the first stop being Metro Airport. So while Bishop is as close to us as Metro, it's not a good choice most of the time. Too much time involved. McGhee-Tyson (Knoxville, TN) is great. Small, friendly, sane. Not perfect, of course. No airport is, methinks. SignatureMaria C. Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. >Detroit's (DTW's) Metropolitan Airport doesn't talk of terminal >numbers -- except, probably, to pilots. You can learn a lot about airport operations by listening to air-traffic control radio. It's fairly easy to find out what the various frequencies are for DTW, or any other U.S. airport, and radios that can receive the air band are fairly cheap. (However, you'll have to be fairly close to the airport to hear much of the communications.) A big airport will use several different frequencies; O'Hare as I recall has four or five just for ground operations. (Not all are in use all the time.) About the only reason left to fly United is that they are the only airline to allow pax to listen in on ATC communications from the cockpit. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness In alt.usage.english, Maria C. wrote: >Detroit's (DTW's) Metropolitan Airport doesn't talk of terminal numbers >-- except, probably, to pilots. Similarly LGW (London Gatwick, something of an oxymoron) has no terminal numbers AFAIK. It's the North terminal and the South terminal. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England > In alt.usage.english, Maria C. wrote: > > Detroit's (DTW's) Metropolitan Airport doesn't talk of terminal [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > terminal numbers AFAIK. It's the North terminal and the South > terminal. Lambert (St. Louis) has the Main terminal and East Terminal. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) > In alt.usage.english, Maria C. wrote: >> Detroit's (DTW's) Metropolitan Airport doesn't talk of terminal numbers >> -- except, probably, to pilots. > > Similarly LGW (London Gatwick, something of an oxymoron) has no terminal > numbers AFAIK. It's the North terminal and the South terminal. Manchester used to Terminal 1, Terminal 2 and Terminal 1 (the other bit). T1 (the other bit) is connected to T1 but it has a different road frontage and airside space, and there's quite a walk between them. It got so confusing for occasional travellers that T1 (the other bit) was renamed T3. Which is still confusing because T1 and T3 are close, and T2 is further away. Oddly, although it is far away, it is bigger. SignatureDavid In alt.usage.english, the Omrud wrote: >Manchester used to Terminal 1, Terminal 2 and Terminal 1 (the other >bit). T1 (the other bit) is connected to T1 but it has a different >road frontage and airside space, and there's quite a walk between them. >It got so confusing for occasional travellers that T1 (the other bit) >was renamed T3. I think T1 (the other bit) was strictly speaking T1 Domestic. Yes, it's now T3, but some of its gates are actually within the structure of T1, accessed through a long corridor alongside the apron. >Which is still confusing because T1 and T3 are close, and T2 is further >away. > >Oddly, although it is far away, it is bigger. Also oddly, T1 is between T3 and T2. A taxi driver told me recently that they were about to build a new terminal and renumber them all. But I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. SignatureMike Barnes Cheshire, England >> In alt.usage.english, Maria C. wrote: >>> Detroit's (DTW's) Metropolitan Airport doesn't talk of terminal [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Oddly, although it is far away, it is bigger. What irritates me about airports is the healthy long-distance hiking they impose on the customers. Even travelators annoy me. But what /saddens/ me about them is their no doubt intentional concealment of the actual flying. At a railway station I like seeing the trains, and at a port I like looking at the ships: airports hide the vehicles as much as they possibly can. I'm as nervous as anybody else about flying, but I also enjoy it, and I very much like aeroplanes. I feel cheated by these vast enclosed spaces (God knows why they give architects awards for them: they're all ghastly). OT. Talking of Norman "Lord Don't Blame Me, I'm Only the Designer" * Foster and irritation, as we almost were, there was a good prog on UK Channel 5 last night about the stupendous Millau viaduct ... which the narrator pronounced "mill-ow", with "ow" as in "cow", throughout. *See under "Millennium Bridge". SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** On Apr 24, 7:34 am, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > But what /saddens/ me about them is their no doubt intentional > concealment of the actual flying. At a railway station I like seeing the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > feel cheated by these vast enclosed spaces (God knows why they give > architects awards for them: they're all ghastly). I still remember my first flight on a 747. I had never been in anything larger than a 707. The terminal in Toronto allowed us to see the 747 at the gate. I was suppose to believe that something that sized with those itty bitty wings was going to get me to Glasgow? John Kane Kingston ON Canada > On Apr 24, 7:34 am, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> feel cheated by these vast enclosed spaces (God knows why they give >> architects awards for them: they're all ghastly). [I don't have Mike's post on my server] That's only true of the major airports. Fly from Liverpool to Limoges and you see the planes from the terminal, and close up as you wait to board in the rain. SignatureDavid >> On Apr 24, 7:34 am, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >and you see the planes from the terminal, and close up as you wait to >board in the rain. That's probably pretty much the reason, after all. They can bring trains into the shed to gget out of the rain, but that's a bit of a problem with planes. Still, thre are, or were, train stations that were more like airport terminals. Until a few years ago the much admired (architecturally) train station in Helsinki required a passenger to go out in the weather to board, so passengers mostly waited in the station, which had limited views of the trains. Helsinki recently added a cover to the platforms. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > Until a few years ago the > much admired (architecturally) train station in Helsinki required > a passenger to go out in the weather to board, so passengers > mostly waited in the station, which had limited views of the > trains. Helsinki recently added a cover to the platforms. I agree - a very attractive building. SignatureDavid Dave Hatunen: > > ... the much admired (architecturally) train station in Helsinki ... "David": > I agree - a very attractive building. Me too. Someone once described it as looking like a radio from the 1920s or '30s. SignatureMark Brader | "I can direct dial today a man my parents warred with. Toronto | They wanted to kill him, I want to sell software to him." msb@vex.net | -- Brad Templeton > Dave Hatunen: >>> ... the much admired (architecturally) train station in Helsinki ... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Someone once described it as looking like a radio from the 1920s or > '30s. Having GglImged, I must confess that I find the edifice quite hideous. And I like Odeons (Odea? Odeota?), and that building at present all wrapped up beside the elevated London section of the M4. Perhaps it's better in the flesh. SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >> Dave Hatunen: >>>> ... the much admired (architecturally) train station in Helsinki ... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > wrapped up beside the elevated London section of the M4. Perhaps it's > better in the flesh. I have photos, but they don't look any different from the piccy at the top of the WikiP article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsinki_Central_railway_station You're not going to dislike Limoges station as well, are you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gare_de_Limoges_B%C3%A9n%C3%A9dictins SignatureDavid >>> Dave Hatunen: >>>>> ... the much admired (architecturally) train station in Helsinki ... [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >top of the WikiP article: >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helsinki_Central_railway_station I don't think that wiki phot really shows off the sort of art deco look of the building as well as it might. I haven't been there in four years and then they were still remodeling the building (on the inside), so I guess I should go back. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > MikeLylewrote: > >> Dave Hatunen: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > You're not going to dislike Limoges station as well, are you?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gare_de_Limoges_B%C3%A9n%C3%A9dictins For some reason, no I don't. Though, or maybe because, it's a lot crazier. -- Mike. On Apr 24, 1:34 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > But what /saddens/ me about them is their no doubt intentional > concealment of the actual flying. At a railway station I like seeing the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > feel cheated by these vast enclosed spaces (God knows why they give > architects awards for them: they're all ghastly). I'm with you on this. Remember when people used to go to airports to look at the planes? And 'observation decks' and visitor areas actually played host to people who had only come to look? I had a touch of this feeling again last month in Sydney, where the food court at least looks directly out onto the tarmac and we had a wonderful view of a size-order parade of Qantas planes beginning with a 747 and pulling out, one after the other in descending size order, looking like a mother duck leading her ducklings. That's also one of the last places, it seems, where visitors can come to the gate with the traveller, so I shared this nice view with my cousin and his daughter, which was good fun. CDG, on the other hand, whence I fly next week, has no redeeming qualities at all. None. cheers, Stephanie in Brussels, which you can no longer fly to from Paris >On Apr 24, 1:34 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >a 747 and pulling out, one after the other in descending size order, >looking like a mother duck leading her ducklings. You would like the layout of the smaller of the two airports near me. Belfast City Airport Ground floor: http://www.belfastcityairport.com/template1.asp?parent=8&pid=38 The tarmac with the aircraft stands is immediately outside the building to the upper left. First Floor - directly above the ground floor. As you can see, the business lounges, children's play area and restaurant all look out over the aircraft stands: http://www.belfastcityairport.com/template1.asp?parent=8&pid=37 >That's also one of >the last places, it seems, where visitors can come to the gate with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Stephanie >in Brussels, which you can no longer fly to from Paris SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >I'm with you on this. Remember when people used to go to airports to >look at the planes? And 'observation decks' and visitor areas >actually played host to people who had only come to look? There's a road near Orlando International Airport that runs perpendicular to the normally used runways. Next to it is a strip of ground about 25 feet deep. Until recently, every time I'd drive by this area there would be cars parked there with people in them, or on them, watching the planes land and take-off. People would bring their lunches and spend their noon hour watching the planes. There would be adults and adults with kids. Some sunbathing while watching, and some just sitting in their cars. It got to the point, though, that the city objected to the people because they'd leave trash - burger wrappers, and that sort of thing - on the ground. City officials worried about liability, but I have no idea where they would be vulnerable. The city fenced off the area so no one can park there. Kinda sad. It was cheap entertainment. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida [...] > in Brussels, which you can no longer fly to from Paris But of course, Continonkals being forward-looking, it seems you don't need to any more because of the excellent rail service. Or is that a pro-European myth, only awaiting Vinny's return for its explosion? SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >[...] >> in Brussels, which you can no longer fly to from Paris > >But of course, Continonkals being forward-looking, it seems you don't >need to any more because of the excellent rail service. Or is that a >pro-European myth, only awaiting Vinny's return for its explosion? 1:22 from Paris Nord to Bruxelles Midi, a distance of about 200 or so miles, seems like pretty good rail service to me. That's on Thalys, which I haven't used, but I have used Eurostar and German ICEs and they're a lot more comfortable than an airplane. That's 1:22 city center to city center (almost) and www.thalys.com shows adult fares as low as EUR 57. You can't travel to and from the two airports and check in in that length of time, much less actually travel. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * Evan Kirshenbaum filted: >> Athel Cornish-Bowden filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >They started work on Terminal B in 2005 and it is scheduled to be done >in 2010. Since 2002, I've worked in "Building 3" of my two-building office complex....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >A few years ago I had 24 hours to kill in Singapore and decided to go >to Nee Soon to see if there was anything I recognized. It's still an >army base, so I couldn't get inside to see if it still contains a >primary school, and is now the home of the 22nd Singapore Infantry >Regiment. That was possibly HQ 22 Singapore Infantry Brigade (Nee Soon Camp) of 2 Peoples Division. >I was surprised that Singapore is a big enough country to >have 22 Infantry Regiments (where on earth do they put them all? Where >on earth do they have their mock battles?) but decided that probably >not all (if any) of Nos. 1 to 21 exist. It's more exciting than that. There is a 30th Singapore Infantry Brigade, a 56th Singapore Armoured Brigade, a 42nd Singapore Armoured Regiment, etc.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Army Including: 25th Division A NS [national service] reservist command. There are suspected divisions such as the 25th Division, which are entirely made up of former conscripts in reserve status. Little are known about these Divisions. Organization: * 11th Singapore Infantry Brigade * 14th Singapore Infantry Brigade * 63rd Singapore Infantry Brigade * 65th Singapore Infantry Brigade * 76th Singapore Infantry Brigade * Possible 25th Divisional Support Command (Unknown) * Possible Armoured Elements (Unknown) * Possible Artillery Elements (Unknown) * Possible Air Defence Elements (Unknown) * Possible Signal Elements (Unknown) I'm getting the impression that rather than fighting wars, the Singapore Army spends its time reorganising itself, creating new unit numbers as required and discarding old unneeded ones. I wonder if there is a thriving trade in old signs and badges? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>Interesting. One of my banks uses "first school attended". My last >>school attended would be simplicity itself to discover [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > imagine how anyone ever keeps track of even more ephemeral answers like > favorite movies or songs. I intended to try to sell my last computer, so I changed the master password. Months went by before I thought about doing something, and I thought I'd better check I had deleted everything properly. Couldn't remember the password. My secret question was "hot stuff"; I tried in 4 languages various synonyms for "hot", plus a whole load of rude words without success. In the end, I dumped the computer at the next verge side rubbish collection. SignatureRob Bannister [...] > I intended to try to sell my last computer, so I changed the master > password. Months went by before I thought about doing something, and I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > words without success. In the end, I dumped the computer at the next > verge side rubbish collection. Good idea to wreck the hard disk drive when you do that: something brutal, like smacking it with a hammer, or putting a screwdriver through it. SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** >I intended to try to sell my last computer, so I changed the master >password. Months went by before I thought about doing something, and I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >without success. In the end, I dumped the computer at the next verge >side rubbish collection. Vindaloo, I'd guess, or Mad Meat Curry, or whatever your favourite hot dish is. But as it's too late for recovery, I don't want to upset you by being right. SignaturePaul >> I intended to try to sell my last computer, so I changed the master >> password. Months went by before I thought about doing something, and I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > dish is. But as it's too late for recovery, I don't want to upset you > by being right. I'm pretty certain I tried that. "Bangalor Phal" was too long. SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister filted: >>> I intended to try to sell my last computer, so I changed the master >>> password. Months went by before I thought about doing something, and I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I'm pretty certain I tried that. "Bangalor Phal" was too long. "Wasabi" was probably too short....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? > Robert Bannister filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > "Wasabi" was probably too short....r Six characters are usually enough, but if not, then "Tabasco", which was my first thought. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. >>Robert Bannister filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Six characters are usually enough, but if not, then "Tabasco", which was my > first thought. Possible, but it is more likely my mind was on sex. SignatureRob Bannister >Paul Wolff wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >I'm pretty certain I tried that. "Bangalor Phal" was too long. Too many Internet remedies, obviously. Though that's an interesting variant name for Pal Joey. SignaturePaul >Katy E and I went to a very illustrious school founded in 1850. I see >that Wiki includes the odd sentence: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I wonder whether "ambitious" applies to the girls or the school. But it wasn't, at the time, an independent school. (and I suspect it is still not a public school, on the basis that girls' school had to be GPDST to be called public schools (Girls' Public Day Schools Trust, I think)). However, on your ambiguity, a learned judge in a House of Lords hearing has just referred to the other establishment at which I was educated as a "famously poor womens' College". Katy >>Katy E and I went to a very illustrious school founded in 1850. I see >>that Wiki includes the odd sentence: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >not a public school, on the basis that girls' school had to be GPDST to be >called public schools (Girls' Public Day Schools Trust, I think)). Surely not: there must have been (and probably still are, unless they've all gone co-educational) public schools for girls which aren't day schools. Wouldn't Roedean or Cheltenham Ladies College have counted as public schools? (My school was one of the GPDST stable.) SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>But it wasn't, at the time, an independent school. (and I suspect it is still >>not a public school, on the basis that girls' school had to be GPDST to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >day schools. Wouldn't Roedean or Cheltenham Ladies College have >counted as public schools? Yes, sorry. I meant "girls' day schools had to be..." - and even then I am not sure of my facts. But I would be surprised to hear my old school described as a public school. Rather like the Perse Girls in Cambridge, it was a Direct Grant school and reluctantly went private when the Direct Grant was abolished. I don't think the Perse is a public school either. Katy >> Katy E and I went to a very illustrious school founded in 1850. I see >> that Wiki includes the odd sentence: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > not a public school, on the basis that girls' school had to be GPDST to be > called public schools (Girls' Public Day Schools Trust, I think)). I was always led to believe that NL was a cut above the GPDST schools. I wonder what FMB's relationship with the founders of the GPDST was. > However, on your ambiguity, a learned judge in a House of Lords hearing > has just referred to the other establishment at which I was educated as > a "famously poor womens' College". Delightful! SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >Nick Spalding wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >explaining that it was founded more than 1000 years ago. My grammar >school was founded in 1955, which I rarely bother to mention. There's always connections. If I tell you that the gloves of an Old Greshamian of Nick Spalding's possible vintage were accidentally washed in the Wolff family washing machine only four months ago, and that a good friend of mine was a Warwick lad at Omrud père's estimated time in that school, then -- well, I'm not sure what, exactly, except there's always connections if you look for them, Q.E.D. SignaturePaul >>Nick Spalding wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >that school, then -- well, I'm not sure what, exactly, except there's >always connections if you look for them, Q.E.D. Connections. Would you Adam and Eve it? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) Paul Wolff wrote, in <YpmzD7IxX8CIFAah@fpwolff.demon.co.uk> on Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:38:41 +0100: > >Nick Spalding wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > that school, then -- well, I'm not sure what, exactly, except there's > always connections if you look for them, Q.E.D. 1945 1949. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > Paul Wolff wrote, in <YpmzD7IxX8CIFAah@fpwolff.demon.co.uk> > on Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:38:41 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > 1945 – 1949. Gresham's? Too late for Benjamin Britten then. That's the end of my knowledge about the school. <checks for people I've heard of> Lord Reith, Erskine Childers, John Tusa (looks like he must have coincided with you), Stephen Spender, Lennox Berkeley, Colin Leakey (another overlap?), Stephen Fry (he was fairly local, I think), James Dyson. And Paddy O'Connell, of BH fame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Old_Greshamians SignatureDavid the Omrud wrote, in <IL_Oj.12279$yD2.3658@text.news.virginmedia.com> on Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:20:08 GMT: > > Paul Wolff wrote, in <YpmzD7IxX8CIFAah@fpwolff.demon.co.uk> > > on Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:38:41 +0100: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Dyson. And Paddy O'Connell, of BH fame. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Old_Greshamians John Tusa had a brother there at the same time, I was in the same form as one of them but don't remember which. They were in a different House. No recollection of Leakey. I see Thomas Stuttaford, a medical correspondent for The Times and the Oldie, was born the same year as me so must have been there at the same time but I have no recollection of him. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >> Gresham's? Too late for Benjamin Britten then. That's the end of my >> knowledge about the school. >> Stephen Fry I thought Fry was Uppingham. > I see Thomas Stuttaford, a medical correspondent for The Times and the > Oldie, was born the same year as me so must have been there at the same > time but I have no recollection of him. His son was at school with me. Regards Jonathan >>> Gresham's? Too late for Benjamin Britten then. That's the end of my >>> knowledge about the school. >>> Stephen Fry > > I thought Fry was Uppingham. I don't have any interest in the private lives of celebrities. SignatureDavid >>>> Gresham's? Too late for Benjamin Britten then. That's the end of my >>>> knowledge about the school. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I don't have any interest in the private lives of celebrities. <applause...> >>>>> Gresham's? Too late for Benjamin Britten then. That's the end >>>>> of my knowledge about the school. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > <applause...> Yep. Them swans is reserved for the Dons. SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** Jonathan Morton wrote, in <NKydnfnJEpFsZpHVnZ2dnUVZ8sqjnZ2d@bt.com> on Mon, 21 Apr 2008 21:41:18 +0100: > >> Gresham's? Too late for Benjamin Britten then. That's the end of my > >> knowledge about the school. > >> Stephen Fry > > I thought Fry was Uppingham. Both. From <http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4852721767> Fry briefly attended Gresham's School, Holt, before going on to Stouts Hill Preparatory School, and then to Uppingham School, > > I see Thomas Stuttaford, a medical correspondent for The Times and the > > Oldie, was born the same year as me so must have been there at the same [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Jonathan > SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >Dad's school, Warwick, was and is probably "minor", but he is fond of >explaining that it was founded more than 1000 years ago. For Tony's further enlightenment, though, I have to point out that ancientness of foundation doesn't mean that one can assume that a school is a public school, even a minor one. The comprehensive (= state-run, non-selective) school which educated my children was founded in 1575. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >For Tony's further enlightenment, though, I have to point out that >ancientness of foundation doesn't mean that one can assume that a >school is a public school, even a minor one. The comprehensive (= >state-run, non-selective) school which educated my children was >founded in 1575. The oldest public (AmE sense) high school in the U.S. is Boston Latin School, which was founded in 1635 (while Boston itself dates to 1630). Boston Latin is the most selective of the three "exam schools" in the Boston city school system. There are other odd cases. Not far from where I grew up, the city and town of St. Albans, Vermont, share Bellows Free Academy, which was (until 2005 according to what I've been able to discover) a private high school to which the school district sent all of its eligible students, in lieu of operating its own public high school. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness the Omrud wrote, in <FLOOj.12072$yD2.11676@text.news.virginmedia.com> on Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:40:53 GMT: > > I don't think the phrase 'major public school' is much used, if at all. > > Like you I was at a minor one, Gresham's, which grew out of a grammar [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > My parents lived in the village of Gresham for a few years when they > first retired. That's the one. I wasn't local - boys born within five (I think that was the number) of Holt Market Cross got there free. I expect they still do. I am not quite sure why I ended up there. I was supposed to be going to Dartmouth and got all that was needed in Common Entrance but it turned out that I had bad eyesight which nobody had noticed before so there was a bit of panic to get me in somewhere at short notice. I know Blundell's was also considered. > Dad's school, Warwick, was and is probably "minor", but he is fond of > explaining that it was founded more than 1000 years ago. My grammar > school was founded in 1955, which I rarely bother to mention. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >the Omrud wrote, in <FLOOj.12072$yD2.11676@text.news.virginmedia.com> > on Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:40:53 GMT: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >of panic to get me in somewhere at short notice. I know Blundell's was >also considered. This threw me at first, but I'm guessing that the school in question was Britannia Royal Naval College in Dartmouth. Poor eyesight would not be a factor in admission to other schools. I have no idea if our military academies have an eyesight requirement. I wouldn't think so, though. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony cooper wrote, in <af1p041jioee06d0raevgpm25pdie3uhug@4ax.com> on Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:24:18 -0400: > >the Omrud wrote, in <FLOOj.12072$yD2.11676@text.news.virginmedia.com> > > on Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:40:53 GMT: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I have no idea if our military academies have an eyesight requirement. > I wouldn't think so, though. That's right. It was a bit of a let-down. My father had followed that route in 1908 and it was assumed I would go the same way. We were rather a naval family, pa had introduced two brother officers to two of my mother's sisters to whom they got married and her brother started out in the navy but switched to the RAF. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > That's right. It was a bit of a let-down. My father had followed that > route in 1908 and it was assumed I would go the same way. We were rather > a naval family, pa had introduced two brother officers to two of my > mother's sisters to whom they got married and her brother started out in > the navy but switched to the RAF. I seem to be struggling with ambiguity at the moment. Were the officers a pair of brothers or were they his "brothers in arms"? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) LFS wrote, in <673jvdF2nbu1eU1@mid.individual.net> on Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:43:10 +0100: > > That's right. It was a bit of a let-down. My father had followed that > > route in 1908 and it was assumed I would go the same way. We were rather [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I seem to be struggling with ambiguity at the moment. Were the officers > a pair of brothers or were they his "brothers in arms"? Brothers in arms. They all happened to be in ships based in Chatham which is not far from where both my parents' family homes were, in villages a couple of miles apart. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >>That's the one. I wasn't local - boys born within five (I think that >>was the number) of Holt Market Cross got there free. I expect they [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I have no idea if our military academies have an eyesight requirement. > I wouldn't think so, though. I believe they do. The vision standards for enlistment in the military is "At least 20/400 or 20/200 vision corrected to 20/20 with eyeglasses or contact lenses. Depth perception and color blindness is also tested.", and all of the various academy homepages list "meeting military physical requirements" as one of the criteria for entrance. >>>That's the one. I wasn't local - boys born within five (I think that >>>was the number) of Holt Market Cross got there free. I expect they [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >and all of the various academy homepages list "meeting military physical >requirements" as one of the criteria for entrance. That seems to allow corrected vision, though. If Nick's eyesight was good enough not to have been noticed before, then - surely - it would have been correctable with glasses. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony cooper wrote, in <qt8p0452malifadudq03ppnjv3ostkcf9r@4ax.com> on Mon, 21 Apr 2008 10:26:54 -0400: > >>>That's the one. I wasn't local - boys born within five (I think that > >>>was the number) of Holt Market Cross got there free. I expect they [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > good enough not to have been noticed before, then - surely - it would > have been correctable with glasses. It was correctable but that wasn't good enough for the RN in those days except for the Paymaster branch which did not attract me. Nowadays they are less restrictive. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >> That seems to allow corrected vision, though. If Nick's eyesight was >> good enough not to have been noticed before, then - surely - it would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > except for the Paymaster branch which did not attract me. Nowadays they are > less restrictive. Most likely the criteria vary with the number of applicants relative to the number of openings. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. >>> That seems to allow corrected vision, though. If Nick's eyesight >>> was good enough not to have been noticed before, then - surely - it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Most likely the criteria vary with the number of applicants relative > to the number of openings. Not all readers may get the full implications of Nick's account: I hadn't realized he was quite so mature. Back then, the R.N. College Dartmouth, "HMS Britannia", the Royal Navy's officer-training school, really was a public school entered at the age of 13, but the entry age has edged up over the decades. This is the significance of a throwaway line in a Saki story--title duly forgotten--to the effect of "If necessary, you can get rid of the boy by putting him in the Navy when he's thirteen." SignatureMike. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** Mike Lyle wrote, in <c6a3f$480e1892$9006@news.teranews.com> on Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:57:46 +0100: > >>> That seems to allow corrected vision, though. If Nick's eyesight > >>> was good enough not to have been noticed before, then - surely - it [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > necessary, you can get rid of the boy by putting him in the Navy when > he's thirteen." Rather past mature, beginning to crumble a bit. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >>>> That seems to allow corrected vision, though. If Nick's eyesight >>>> was good enough not to have been noticed before, then - surely - it [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Dartmouth, "HMS Britannia", the Royal Navy's officer-training school, > really was a public school entered at the age of 13,.. Surely that was quite a long time ago. My father (b. 1908) went to Dartmouth, but only after he had also been at a Public School so extremely minor that it probably wasn't even in the Headmasters' Conference (a school known mainly for the fact that it participated, as the losing side, in the rugby match with the highest score ever recorded for a match between schools). > but the entry age > has edged up over the decades. Maybe it edged down as well at times. Mature though Nick doubtless is, I doubt if he was born before 1908. > This is the significance of a throwaway > line in a Saki story--title duly forgotten--to the effect of "If > necessary, you can get rid of the boy by putting him in the Navy when > he's thirteen." Signatureathel Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote, in <678ih7F2muntdU1@mid.individual.net> on Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:49:11 +0200: > >>>> That seems to allow corrected vision, though. If Nick's eyesight > >>>> was good enough not to have been noticed before, then - surely - it [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the losing side, in the rugby match with the highest score ever > recorded for a match between schools). That was known as Y Entry, a cousin of mine joined that way but since he was going into the Engineering Branch he went to Keyham rather than Dartmouth. I attempted to get in in 1945 at the age of 13, the same age as my father was when he succeeded in doing so. That was still the normal entry route in those days. > > but the entry age > > has edged up over the decades. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > necessary, you can get rid of the boy by putting him in the Navy when > > he's thirteen." SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >>>>That's the one. I wasn't local - boys born within five (I think >>>>that was the number) of Holt Market Cross got there free. I expect [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > good enough not to have been noticed before, then - surely - it would > have been correctable with glasses. Not necessarily. There are two criteria there: that it not be worse than 20/400 uncorrected, -and- that it be correctable to 20/20. Anecdatum: I couldn't pass the vision exam for the military when I graduated from high school -- my vision uncorrected at the time (decades ago) was already worse than 20/400. I couldn't see the big "E" at the top of the snellen chart--it was just a big, vaguely rectangular shape. They wouldn't have me even though it could be corrected to 20/20. >> the Omrud wrote, in >> <FLOOj.12072$yD2.11676@text.news.virginmedia.com> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I have no idea if our military academies have an eyesight > requirement. I wouldn't think so, though. In 1954 the Naval Reserve Officer's Training program at U of Southern Cal had a requirement. The counselors taught me how to cheat on the exam. Naval Science classes were invariably scheduled at 0700; it's where I learned to sleep seated, with my eyes open and head erect. SignatureFrank ess >Naval Science classes were invariably scheduled at 0700; it's where I >learned to sleep seated, with my eyes open and head erect. I toyed with the idea of applying for a commission in the navy. I was told that a military bearing would be a help so I stole a Timken roller thrust race out of an army field gun. I'll get my coat. SignatureJames Follett. Novelist >>Naval Science classes were invariably scheduled at 0700; it's where I >>learned to sleep seated, with my eyes open and head erect. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I'll get my coat. Someone I once knew always claimed he was refused entry to the police because of his eyes. They were too close to the ground. SignatureLes >> Naval Science classes were invariably scheduled at 0700; it's where I >> learned to sleep seated, with my eyes open and head erect. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I'll get my coat. The door's over there. >>Naval Science classes were invariably scheduled at 0700; it's where I >>learned to sleep seated, with my eyes open and head erect. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I'll get my coat. I failed on account of my military bearing. I used magnetic north instead of true north. I'll join you Jitze On 20 Apr 2008, Nick Spalding wrote > I don't think the phrase 'major public school' is much used, if > at all. Like you I was at a minor one, Gresham's, which grew out > of a grammar school founded in 1555 in the early 20th century. "...grew out of a grammar school founded in 1555 in the early 20th century." Hmmm..... SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed HVS wrote, in <Xns9A875266497EFwhhvans@news.albasani.net> on Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:06:00 +0100: > On 20 Apr 2008, Nick Spalding wrote > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Hmmm..... A few commas would have been nice... SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >On 20 Apr 2008, Nick Spalding wrote > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Hmmm..... It is logically decipherable but gardenpathish. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) HVS filted: >On 20 Apr 2008, Nick Spalding wrote > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Hmmm..... And some people say there was no millennium bug!...r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? >On 20 Apr, 19:32, tony cooper <tony_cooper...@earthlink.net> wrote: >> While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Oakham, Rugby, Westminster and Winchester. Apart from those eight, >there are over 2500 independent schools in the UK. As someone else has remarked (and apologies for not crediting them by name) the 'major' public schools aren't commonly called that. It's possible to speak of the 'great' public schools, but I think that's rather over-egging the pudding in most cases. I'd allow that six of those eight Butterflies members might merit 'great', but that is for their history more than for their merit today. People will have different criteria, and there was a rash of new foundations in the mid-1800s of which some have become quite respectable, including Marlborough and Radley. I don't know how Oakham found its way into Mike contrex's list (I don't know anyone from Oakham, for goodness' sake) , but the rest would count. Others close to the upper echelons include Sherborne, Repton, Wellington, Tonbridge, Dulwich, Cheltenham, Stowe, Lancing, Shrewsbury, Uppingham, St Paul's, and others I am missing. Brian Aldridge was at Sherborne (ref: The Archers). Dulwich College is interesting in relation to Mike's Alleyn's School, because both were founded (as far as I know, but I could be wrong) by James Alleyn, who also founded a girls' school (called, by a quirky coincidence, James Alleyn's School), and the Dulwich former pupils, or Old Boys, call themselves Old Alleynians, which confuses me no end when I meet them, since Alleyns was a football opponent. I'm a minor man myself, of course, whose famous old boys begin and end with Victor Sylvester, Billy Cotton Jr, Terry-Thomas, Mike Hailwood, and Ian Hislop, though I once danced with a girl who'd danced with a man who'd been to Harrow. I may even have kissed her, but I didn't tell (I was going to say couldn't tell, but that would have been unfortunate). Reverting to the question, you'd be pretty safe contrasting 'good' with 'minor'. Minor public schools do of course include good schools, but we are talking reputation here, not quality of education. Going out on a limb I propose that all public schools are minor except for two or three dozen which are good; and of those, half a dozen are great. Please note, and I can feel the icy stares coming on, that I am not presuming to speak of any of the girls' schools in this classification: they are in classes of their own. SignaturePaul > >I went to Alleyns, which is undoubtedly minor > Others close to the upper echelons include > ... Dulwich ... > Dulwich College is interesting in relation to Mike's Alleyn's School, because both were > founded (as far as I know, but I could be wrong) by James Alleyn, Edward Alleyn founded Alleyn's School. In 1619 he established his "College of God's Gift" (the gift of love) with twelve students. Alleyn's School is a direct descendant of Edward Alleyn's original foundation and was established as a boys' school in 1882. It still exists as part of a foundation alongside Dulwich College. It split with Dulwich College after the "Dulwich College Act" of 1857, with the upper school of the original foundation moving to a new site further south and the lower school (now Alleyns) staying put, becoming an independent boys school in 1882 and later also moving to its own site. > who also founded a girls' school (called, by a quirky coincidence, James > Alleyn's School), It's called James Allen's Girls School (JAGS). It is part of the Alleyn's College foundation alongside Dulwich College and Alleyn's School. It was founded by a Master of Dulwich College, James Allen, in 1741, as a free reading school for the local poor. > and the Dulwich former pupils, or Old Boys, call > themselves Old Alleynians, which confuses me no end when I meet them, > since Alleyns was a football opponent. Alleyns former pupils in my day (harrumph) called themselves Alleyn Old Boys and had AOB after their name in school publications. Since 1975 the school has been coed so you have Alleyn Old Girls, AOGs, as well. >On 20 Apr, 23:20, Paul Wolff <bounc...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >School. It was founded by a Master of Dulwich College, James Allen, in >1741, as a free reading school for the local poor. Thanks for the corrections. I ought to have been more accurate, because my goddaughter went to JAGS and my nephew to Dulwich. >> and the Dulwich former pupils, or Old Boys, call >> themselves Old Alleynians, which confuses me no end when I meet them, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >1975 the school has been coed so you have Alleyn Old Girls, AOGs, as >well. SignaturePaul > I don't know how Oakham found its way into Mike > contrex's list (I don't know anyone from Oakham, for goodness' sake) , It was in a list I found on Google. >> I don't know how Oakham found its way into Mike >> contrex's list (I don't know anyone from Oakham, for goodness' sake) , > > It was in a list I found on Google. It may have been, but I strongly suggest it is wrong. Oakham was a direct grant school which went fully-independent in the late 60s (when the then Labour administration abolished the direct grant status). It's a good school but not in the league of the others on the list. The compiler may have been mixing Oakham up with Oundle. Regards Jonathan >>> I don't know how Oakham found its way into Mike >>> contrex's list (I don't know anyone from Oakham, for goodness' sake) , [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The compiler may have been mixing Oakham up with Oundle. At last! Ever since Oakham was mentioned it had been clear that it was wrong, but I couldn't think what it should have been. Now I can stop worrying about it. For our listeners across the water, Oakham is known for one thing only, being the county town of the smallest county in England. I was going to add that now it's not even known for that, as Rutland is no longer a county, but what looks like an official government site (http://www.rutland.gov.uk/) tells me that it is. When did that happen? Surely Rutland was absorbed into Leicestershire? Also for our listeners across the water, politicians in the UK have a lot more freedom to mess around with administrative boundaries than they do in the US: imagine the outcry if the chaps in Washington decided that it would be more efficient if Rhode Island were incorporated into Massachusetts. Signatureathel > For our listeners across the water, Oakham is known for one thing only, > being the county town of the smallest county in England. I was going to > add that now it's not even known for that, as Rutland is no longer a > county, but what looks like an official government site > (http://www.rutland.gov.uk/) tells me that it is. When did that happen? > Surely Rutland was absorbed into Leicestershire? It was unabsorbed in about 2004, I think. SignatureDavid >Also for our listeners across the water, politicians in the UK have a >lot more freedom to mess around with administrative boundaries than >they do in the US: imagine the outcry if the chaps in Washington >decided that it would be more efficient if Rhode Island were >incorporated into Massachusetts. Which makes sense, since English counties are not sovereign, whereas U.S. states theoretically are. (However, counties in many U.S. states are nigh-inviolate, too -- most require some sort of constitutional amendment to create or abolist a county. Here in the New England states we generally hew more towards the "unitary government" theory; in Massachusetts, the Great and General Court has abolished one county by simple legislation, as well as establishing a general law by which other counties may terminate their operation and transfer their few remaining responsibilities to the Commonwealth. I say "abolish a county", but in fact it is only the vestigial county government which is abolished; the geographical venue remains, so I am still writing this in Middlesex County (in the judicial district of Southern Middlesex) even though Middlesex is officially an "abolished county".[1]) -GAWollman [1] Middlesex was the first to be abolished unilaterally by the state, as it was insolvent. A few counties gained meaningful powers in the past three decades or so, and have not been abolished; these include Barnstable and Dukes. I have no idea if Nantucket County still exists -- it has long been integrated with the Town of Nantucket so in a practical sense it makes no matter either way. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness [> contrex <mike.j.har...@gmail.com> wrote] > >> While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", > >> I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being > >> able to identify which are the *major*, or not minor, public schools. ... > >> Last, what is the opposite of "minor"? ... > Reverting to the question, you'd be pretty safe contrasting 'good' with > 'minor'. I was hoping the antonym was "pukka", but reality insists on not conforming to my hopes. -- Jerry Friedman contrex filted: >Public schools are often divided into "major" and "minor", but these >are not official definitions and the inclusion of a school in one or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Oakham, Rugby, Westminster and Winchester. Apart from those eight, >there are over 2500 independent schools in the UK. A minor school is obviously one with a flattened third....r SignatureWhat good is being an executive if you never get to execute anyone? > > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", > > I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Oakham, Rugby, Westminster and Winchester. Apart from those eight, > there are over 2500 independent schools in the UK. This list should include St Paul's, I think, and Radley - possibly even Gordonstoun. I went to Malvern (on the cusp of greatness, possibly, though I'd not judge it so). One should also consider the mem sahibs, educated at such luminous establishment as Cheltenham Ladies' College, Roedean and others. >> Public schools are often divided into "major" and "minor", but these >> are not official definitions and the inclusion of a school in one or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> Oakham, Rugby, Westminster and Winchester. Apart from those eight, >> there are over 2500 independent schools in the UK. > This list should include St Paul's, I think, and Radley - possibly > even Gordonstoun. I went to Malvern (on the cusp of greatness, > possibly, though I'd not judge it so). One should also consider the > mem sahibs, educated at such luminous establishment as Cheltenham > Ladies' College, Roedean and others. One might also note there's a parallel system of Catholic public schools (in the BrE sense), with Ampleforth, Stonyhurst and Downside taking the position of Eton, Harrow and Winchester. Matthew Huntbach > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", > I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being > able to identify which are the *major*, or not minor, public schools. I would imagine it's a matter of reputation. >> While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >> I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being >> able to identify which are the *major*, or not minor, public schools. > >I would imagine it's a matter of reputation. Somebody who attended a minor public school lets you know it within the first two minutes of meeting him/her. A person who went a major public school will never tell you unless asked. >>> While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >>> I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you know it within the first two minutes of meeting > him/her. That might be unfair in real life. But it is more or less what is meant when novelists of a certain era - Dorothy L Sayers, for example - write that "so and so was educated at a minor public school". It conveys an air of someone who considers himself superior but retains a chip on the shoulder about not having gone to a "proper" public school. > A person who went a major public school will never tell you unless asked. That is often true. And, as others have said, the expression "major public school" is not in common use. Regards Jonathan > > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", > > I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being > > able to identify which are the *major*, or not minor, public schools. > > > I would imagine it's a matter of reputation. "If you don't know you shouldn't reply." -- Ray O'Hara, one minute prior to posting the above. Anyway, when did ignorance stop any of us, Ray O-Hara included, from posting our imaginings? SignatureBob Lieblich, AmEclectic As iggorant as the next guy >> > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >> > I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Anyway, when did ignorance stop any of us, Ray O-Hara included, from > posting our imaginings? Two true, B-ob. SignatureRay UK >>> > While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >>> > I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Two true, B-ob. Two tanners make a bob, Three make one and six And four two bob, To the tune of Rule Britannia. >While I do understand the phrase "He attended a minor public school", >I find that I can't explain it very well. The problem is in not being [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >might be "minor"? Is there a bracket above "minor" but not quite >"major"? Minor would be ones you haven't heard of before, which still belong to the headmasters' conference. "Major" would be the ones that reasonably well-read people know about, because they've read about them. It's what used to be known as "general knowledge" but after the marketing of the game "Trivial Pursuit (TM)" became known as "trivia". SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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