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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2008Bring it her
Hello: Would you say that in the last 50 years or so, "bring it her" has gradually changed to "bring it TO her?" This is what Google Books seems to tell me. Thanks. Marius Hancu In our last episode, <jvR%j.38795$yT4.31460@wagner.videotron.net>, the lovely and talented Marius Hancu broadcast on alt.usage.english: > Hello: > Would you say that in the last 50 years or so, > "bring it her" I think it would be "bring her it." In the usual English order, i.o. comes before d.o. And "bring" instead of "take" is odd when the i.o. is not "me" or "us," unless there are special circumstances. > has gradually changed to > "bring it TO her?" I'm not sure changed is it, but that one of two acceptable constructions may be becoming more popular. > This is what Google Books seems to tell me. > Thanks. > Marius Hancu  SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com Countdown: 235 days to go. > Would you say that in the last 50 years or so, > "bring it her" > has gradually changed to > "bring it TO her?" > > This is what Google Books seems to tell me. What was the evidence? You may be been misled a bit. It's always (AFAIK) been "bring it to me" in American English. Fifty years only gets us back to me being a toddler. Did my parents and grandparents say "Bring it her"? No. "Bring it to her" turns up hits going all the way back to Shakespeare, and rough numbers the same as "bring it her." Most of what I see under "bring it her" is before 1850, with a few from 1850-1902. Ways you could be misled: - Books with a recent date but that actually quote or reprint historical material. - Lines such as "And if she didn't want to bring it her uncle'd make her". - Multiple hits for oft-repeated literary quotations. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> Would you say that in the last 50 years or so, >> "bring it her" has gradually changed to "bring it TO her?" >> This is what Google Books seems to tell me. > What was the evidence? You may be been misled a bit. It's always > (AFAIK) been "bring it to me" in American English. Fifty years only > gets us back to me being a toddler. Did my parents and grandparents > say "Bring it her"? No. > "Bring it to her" turns up hits going all the way back to > Shakespeare, and rough numbers the same as "bring it her." > Most of what I see under "bring it her" is before 1850, with a few > from 1850-1902. > Ways you could be misled: > - Books with a recent date but that actually quote or reprint > historical material. > - Lines such as "And if she didn't want to bring it her uncle'd make > her". > - Multiple hits for oft-repeated literary quotations. I'm familiar with it as BrE idiom. Posters from over there will have to say if it's falling out of use. > > Would you say that in the last 50 years or so, > > "bring it her" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What was the evidence? 261 on "bring it her" 40 on "bring it her" date:1950-2008 719 on "bring it to her" 621 on "bring it to her" date:1950-2008 Thank you all. Marius Hancu >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Thanks. >Marius Hancu DEFINITELY! Aspasia > >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > DEFINITELY! Hmm... This to-less bring, show, etc is a funny little topic. I'm incapable of uttering even "Give it me", but I know not a few people who use it. Unusual with a pronoun as direct object, but "Bring her the book" and its analogues are perfectly current round here. It's possible, but not the most likely, to say "Bring her it"; but "Bring the book her" is impossible. OTOH, "Bring her [noun]", "Bring her some", "bring her something", "bring her nothing", "bring her any", etc are probably the first choices, rather than "Bring some to her" etc. "Bring to her the book" is a rare structure, and I think found only in weightier sentences than that example, in which it seems quite wrong to my ear. (I'm in danger of getting confused by hearing too many examples, good, bad, and plain wrong, in my head so I'll pass the baton on to somebody else.) -- Mike. > > >Would you say that in the last 50 years or so, > > >"bring it her" [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > incapable of uttering even "Give it me", but I know not a few people > who use it. In a similar-ish vein, my wife habitually uses to-less constructions, such as "the clothes need washed". We have come to the conclusions that A) it may be due to her native German language, and B) it is quite common among the "Pennsylvania Dutch" (also german-descended) in whose domain she spent the first decade or so of her time in the US. I've picked it up to some extent myself. Jim Deutch (JimboCat) -- "2B or N2B, that is the FAQ." [Hamlet] >> > >Would you say that in the last 50 years or so, >> > >"bring it her" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >In a similar-ish vein, my wife habitually uses to-less constructions, >such as "the clothes need washed". Not only is the "to" missing, so is the "be" that follows it: "the clothes need washed" instead of "the clothes need to be washed". > We have come to the conclusions >that A) it may be due to her native German language, and B) it is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Jim Deutch (JimboCat) SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [...] > Jim Deutch (JimboCat) So, are you related to Django? Or, maybe to Mr. Follett? (I haven't seen the name "JimboCat" before, but I've missed a lot of posts lately.) SignatureMaria C. (The "C" doesn't stand for "Cat.") > In a similar-ish vein, my wife habitually uses to-less constructions, > such as "the clothes need washed". We have come to the conclusions > that A) it may be due to her native German language, and B) it is > quite common among the "Pennsylvania Dutch" (also german-descended) in > whose domain she spent the first decade or so of her time in the US. This is discussed every few years here,though I don't think it made it into Mark Israel's FAQ. The construction is also found in other parts of the US, like the Midwest. We learned it is still current in Scotland, so that is quite likely the source. Pennsylvania colonists were about one-third Scots-Irish, so it seems reasonable that the "Duits/Deutsch/Dutch" would have learned their English from them. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux >> In a similar-ish vein, my wife habitually uses to-less constructions, >> such as "the clothes need washed". We have come to the conclusions [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the US, like the Midwest. We learned it is still current in Scotland, so > that is quite likely the source. That might explain why my wife - who is of Scots descent - says "the clothes need washed". I would say "need washing" - though from a safe distance, of course. To the OP, I would say the use of the direct and indirect pronoun together ("bring it me") is becoming less common in BrE, but it's still comprehensible. When both pronouns are used, the "direct first, indirect second" order is (perhaps) better. Aliter, of course, if a noun is involved - "please bring me a cup of coffee". Regards Jonathan On May 30, 5:57 pm, "Jonathan Morton" <jonat...@jonathanmortonbutignorethisbit.co.uk> wrote: > To the OP, I would say the use of the direct and indirect pronoun together > ("bring it me") is becoming less common in BrE, but it's still > comprehensible. I've no problem understanding such constructions:-) Glad to see I was right in my feeling. > When both pronouns are used, the "direct first, indirect > second" order is (perhaps) better. Thanks for pointing that out. Marius Hancu |
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