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LFS - 27 Jul 2008 13:10 GMT
On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
as well to be prepared for any eventuality these days although
encountering bear in Staples, our destination, would be fairly unusual)
but also puzzled as I have never heard this expression before. Is this
because I don't mix much with hunters?

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Leslie Danks - 27 Jul 2008 13:27 GMT
> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
> was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
> as well to be prepared for any eventuality these days although
> encountering bear in Staples, our destination, would be fairly unusual)
> but also puzzled as I have never heard this expression before. Is this
> because I don't mix much with hunters?

Its new to me, too. Could it refer to a "bear market" on the stock
exchange, which means a situation where everyone wants to buy (as opposed
to a "bull market", where everyone's  selling)?

Signature

Les

Rambler III - 27 Jul 2008 13:45 GMT
>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>> trip, I
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> opposed
> to a "bull market", where everyone's  selling)?

Google search for "loaded for bear"

     1.  loaded for bear
    Carrying more equipment [money] than necessary. Overloaded. It
can be used in a variety of ways meaning a person is equipped more
than necessary for his/her [purpose].
     www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=loaded%20for%20bear
tinwhistler - 27 Jul 2008 15:29 GMT
> >> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
> >> trip, I
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> than necessary for his/her [purpose].
>      www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=loaded%20for%20bear

Excerpt from OED2:

APPENDED FROM ADDITIONS 1997

load, v.  Senses 5b, c become 5c, d. Add:  [5.] b. to be loaded for
bear(s), to be well prepared for an anticipated confrontation,
opponent, emergency, etc.; to be ready for anything; also (joc.)
drunk; hence to be loaded (for), to be well prepared (for).

  1888 World (N.Y.) 19 Oct. 3/5 Ewing was loaded for bear and was
just spoiling for a chance to catch somebody on the bases.  1890
Barrère & Leland Dict. Slang II. 22/2 Loaded for bears
(American),..signifies that a man is slightly intoxicated, enough to
feel ready to confront danger.  1896 Dialect Notes I. 420 Loaded for
bear,..3. Said of one who has a big supply of anything... 4. Full of
indignation which is likely to be vented upon its object.  1904 F.
Crissey Tattlings of Retired Politician 423, I caught a gleam in the
tail of the President's eye that showed he had been loaded for his
caller and had given him this shot with malice aforethought.  1937 San
Francisco Examiner 1 Dec. 22/3 (heading) Texans ‘loaded’ for Don
contest.  1948 San Francisco News 20 Sept. 15/6 Loyola, supposedly
loaded,..was plagued by poor field generalship.  1957 M. Shulman Rally
round Flag, Boys! (1958) iv. 55 The O'Sheel woman is coming in loaded
for bear this time. She's got some brand-new gimmick, and she's also
got a lot of people on her side.  1982 Verbatim Autumn 14/2 Don't we
also know bright-eyed and bushy-tailed tigers who are always loaded
for bear?  1989 T. Clancy Clear & Present Danger x. 199 Christ, but
they're loaded for bear, the colonel thought. Not wearing standard-
issue uniforms.... Obviously a covert insertion..but they were clearly
planning to stay awhile.  [end excerpt]

--
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
tinwhistler - 27 Jul 2008 18:41 GMT
> > "Leslie Danks" <leslie.da...@aon.at> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
> --
> Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego

That 1888 citation could cause some to say that baseball is the
greatest source of our most colorful expressions.  I'm glad that
Richard Maurer seems to have shown that ON ALL CYLINDERS originated in
auto racing, not baseball.
--
Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego
Barbara Bailey - 30 Jul 2008 05:08 GMT

>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
>> was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> exchange, which means a situation where everyone wants to buy (as opposed
> to a "bull market", where everyone's  selling)?

Hunting, as far as I know, rather than the stock market.

Bear hunting requires a fairly large caliber, high stopping-power rifle and
(if one has two brain cells to rub together. (If one has many more than two
functioning brain cells, one probably is not bear hunting in the first
place.)) and a back-up weapon, also of fairly large caliber and high
stopping-power, (bears being notoriously stubborn about not lying down and
dieing immediately when shot.)  

Rifle and handgun loads come in different sizes ("caliber") and within each
caliber, the "load" (the ratio of powder weight to bullet weight) can be
varied over a fairly wide spectrum. For bear, you want a heavy load -- a
lot of powder and heavy slug.

If you're carrying a gun that is "loaded for bear", there's not much else
out there that will give you a problem.

So, to be "loaded for bear" is to be as prepared as it's possible to be, to
be prepared for the worst or most extreme possible situation.
Chuck Riggs - 30 Jul 2008 10:33 GMT
>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
>> was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>exchange, which means a situation where everyone wants to buy (as opposed
>to a "bull market", where everyone's  selling)?

Since most people want to anticipate a bull market by buying at the
beginning of the rise and doing the reverse with bear markets, it
seems unlikely to me that "loaded for bear" relates to the stock
market, especially since "loaded for bull" is not a popular phrase
with investors.
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Leslie Danks - 30 Jul 2008 11:26 GMT
>>Its new to me, too. Could it refer to a "bear market" on the stock
>>exchange, which means a situation where everyone wants to buy (as
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> market, especially since "loaded for bull" is not a popular phrase
> with investors.

It was only a thought and many others have demonstrated that it should
have been strangled at birth (or even sooner). My "definitions" of bull
and bear markets are also a bit dodgy, come to think of it -- although
they do (sortof) accord with the formula for success on the stock
market: "Buy cheap and sell dear".

Signature

Les

Chuck Riggs - 31 Jul 2008 10:46 GMT
>>>Its new to me, too. Could it refer to a "bear market" on the stock
>>>exchange, which means a situation where everyone wants to buy (as
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>they do (sortof) accord with the formula for success on the stock
>market: "Buy cheap and sell dear".

Dodgy or not, I wouldn't worry, for even the experts on Wall Street
don't seem expert anymore.
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Don Phillipson - 27 Jul 2008 13:41 GMT
> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
> was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
> as well to be prepared for any eventuality these days although
> encountering bear in Staples, our destination, would be fairly unusual)
> but also puzzled as I have never heard this expression before. Is this
> because I don't mix much with hunters?

Probably yes.  The phrase was current in Canada 50 years ago
but is now seldom heard.   The factual point is that (for our sort of
hunting) shotguns may be loaded with either multiple pellets or
single large slugs.   Pellets (i.e. small shot) are used to hunt
birds and small game e.g. rabbits:  but if you get a chance at
a bear or a deer the slug round is preferred, as likely to kill
safely (at short range) but not pepper the (deer) meat with
pellets.   Bears are the only common wild animal likely to
harm you (since wolves became very scarce) so a hunter
loaded for bear is fully armed to protect himself and his companions.

Signature

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Rambler III - 27 Jul 2008 15:57 GMT
>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>> trip, I
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> loaded for bear is fully armed to protect himself and his
> companions.

"Loaded for cats"?

No cougars (puma, mountain lion) in Canada?

Probably no.

It's an allusion.

"But the Solstice, too, comes loaded for bear. The startup from
Detroit also packs rear-wheel drive, along with more sex appeal
than..."

     "It may not sound like Robert Wyatt puts much thought into his
songs, but they're loaded for bear."

"Yes, it's Redneck Weekend at CommunityAmerica Ballpark beginning
tonight, and the T-Bones will be loaded for bear,.."

"Into this world strides Professor Mansfield, loaded for bear, and
lethally armed with all the powerful stereotypes thought to be
banished from bien pensant ..."

     "An officer comes in, announcing the arrival of Tensen's lawyer,
a Miss Windels, who's loaded for bear. The police captain and Miss
Windels get into a fight ..."

     If not enough, Google: allusion +"loaded for bear"
R H Draney - 27 Jul 2008 17:44 GMT
Rambler III filted:

>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>> trip, I
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>No cougars (puma, mountain lion) in Canada?

Only in the cravices....

Any shot that will take down a bear will also make short work of the big
cats...about the only thing up your way that even comes close to requiring
bear-grade firepower would be a moose....r

Signature

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.

Purl Gurl - 27 Jul 2008 18:10 GMT
(snipped)

>>>>On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>>>trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear".

>>> Probably yes.  The phrase was current in Canada 50 years ago

> Any shot that will take down a bear will also make short work of the big
> cats...about the only thing up your way that even comes close to requiring
> bear-grade firepower would be a moose.

And what of Roseanne Barr? She is catty.

Loaded for barr.

Signature

Purl Gurl
 --
So many are stumped by what slips right off the top of my mind
like a man's bad fitting hairpiece.

Rambler III - 27 Jul 2008 22:59 GMT
> Rambler III filted:

[snip]

>>"Loaded for cats"?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> requiring
> bear-grade firepower would be a moose....r

My remark concerned the statement:

>>> Bears are the only common wild animal likely to
>>> harm you (since wolves became very scarce)

As you not, moose are also dangerous.
The UnInmate - 27 Jul 2008 23:08 GMT
>> Rambler III filted:
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> As you not, moose are also dangerous.

In Northern Ontario the spring bear hunt was a major way to control the bear
population. When it was cancelled some years ago the bear population
exploded and led to bears routinely raiding people's garbage, garages,
outbuildings, and cottages. There were even stories of bears entering
people's residences.

But in the wild, bears are people-shy and not interested in conflict except
for the usual mammal reasons (e.g. a mother protecting its young or a bear
feeling cornered). Moose are also people-shy but sometimes unconcerned about
collisions with vehicles, as in some of those collisions the moose wins. :-(
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 28 Jul 2008 04:37 GMT
On Jul 27, 6:41 am, "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:...

> Bears are the only common wild animal likely to
> harm you (since wolves became very scarce)

If you're using "animal" in the sense of "mammal" and if "harm"
doesn't include getting a disease, getting hit by a deer as it comes
through your windshield, or getting sprayed by a skunk.

> so a hunter
> loaded for bear is fully armed to protect himself and his companions.

A nuance that I hear in "loaded for bear" but some others haven't
mentioned.  Someone loaded for bear is not only well or overly
prepared but also probably expecting trouble.

--
Jerry Friedman knows this expression mostly from books.
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 27 Jul 2008 13:47 GMT
>On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
>was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
>as well to be prepared for any eventuality these days although
>encountering bear in Staples, our destination, would be fairly unusual)
>but also puzzled as I have never heard this expression before. Is this
>because I don't mix much with hunters?

There are very few bear hunters in your neck of the woods
(saplings? bushes?) partly because of a serious shortage of
bears.

I'd classify the expression as North American. It suggests that
the hunter's gun is loaded with ammunition suitable for stopping
a bear rather than just bringing down a sparrow.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Rambler III - 27 Jul 2008 15:39 GMT
>>On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>trip, I
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> the hunter's gun is loaded with ammunition suitable for stopping
> a bear rather than just bringing down a sparrow.

You're putting me on, or is your hat in front of your face?
Maria C. - 28 Jul 2008 03:49 GMT
>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>> trip, I
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> You're putting me on, or is your hat in front of your face?

What Peter says* is true as far as I understand "loaded for bear." If
you're not hunting, it generally means "prepared for anything."

   *Some others have said much the same thing.

In another post, you mentioned "allusions" and seemed to think that
that's all "loaded for bear" is.  Here's the Merriam-Webster Online
definition of "allusion":

1: an implied or indirect reference especially in literature; also : the
use of such references
2: the act of alluding to or hinting at something

So, while "loaded for bear" is indeed an allusion, it could (and can) be
said and taken literally.

Signature

Maria C.
Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee.

Mark Brader - 28 Jul 2008 14:15 GMT
Laura Spira:
>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip,
>> I  was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured ...
>> but also puzzled as I have never heard this expression before.

Familiar to me.

>> Is this because I don't mix much with hunters?

Neither do I.

Peter Duncanson:
> I'd classify the expression as North American.  It suggests that
> the hunter's gun is loaded with ammunition suitable for stopping
> a bear rather than just bringing down a sparrow.

Yep.
Signature

Mark Brader           "I cannot reply in French, but I will
Toronto                type English very slowly and loudly."
msb@vex.net                                            --Lars Eighner

CDB - 27 Jul 2008 15:27 GMT
> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
> reassured (it is as well to be prepared for any eventuality these
> days although encountering bear in Staples, our destination, would
> be fairly unusual) but also puzzled as I have never heard this
> expression before. Is this because I don't mix much with hunters?

It's a venerable NAmE expression, which has the literal meaning
explained in other postings and a figurative meaning as follows,
according to the three OneLook dictionaries that have entries for it:

2. (idiomatic) Mentally prepared for a daunting situation.
She went into the job interview loaded for bear.

11. loaded for bear, Informal. fully prepared and eager to initiate or
deal with a fight, confrontation, or trouble: Keep away from the
boss-he's loaded for bear today.

loaded for bear (American, informal)
ready and eager to deal with something that is going to be difficult.
Their team came out onto the field, loaded for bear, but our defense
stopped them.
tony cooper - 27 Jul 2008 15:32 GMT
>On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
>was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
>as well to be prepared for any eventuality these days although
>encountering bear in Staples, our destination, would be fairly unusual)
>but also puzzled as I have never heard this expression before. Is this
>because I don't mix much with hunters?

A very recognizable phrase in the US that is used to mean the person
is well prepared.  For hunters, that means with the appropriate gun
and ammunition.  For shoppers, a well-loaded wallet.

Seems like Husband is watching US videos.  Probably documentaries and
serious art films.  Nothing that he would quickly turn off if you
entered the room.  
Signature

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Garrett Wollman - 27 Jul 2008 18:14 GMT
>as well to be prepared for any eventuality these days although
>encountering bear in Staples, our destination, would be fairly unusual)

Is your Staples the same as our Staples (large office-supply chain
store)?

I drive by Staples #1 every day on the way to work.  Their corporate
HQ is in my town, a few miles west of where I sit (but not on my way
to work).

ObAUE: the business editor on a local radio station has the annoying
habit of always naming the place where the corporate headquarters is
located, as if this were relevant to the story.  A typical afternoon
business report might include stories about "Talbots of Hingham",
"Staples of Framingham", "Boston Scientific of Natick", "Millennium
Pharmaceuticals of Cambridge", and "Xerox Corporation of Stamford,
Connecticut".  This seems to be a bad habit of print journalists made
even worse by transposition into radio.  Normal People Don't Talk Like
That!

-GAWollman

Signature

Garrett A. Wollman   | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those   | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL.     | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness

Raymond O'Hara - 27 Jul 2008 18:52 GMT
> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
> was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is as
> well to be prepared for any eventuality these days although encountering
> bear in Staples, our destination, would be fairly unusual) but also
> puzzled as I have never heard this expression before. Is this because I
> don't mix much with hunters?

It's common in my neck of the woods.
Rambler III - 27 Jul 2008 23:06 GMT
[snip]

> It's common in my neck of the woods.

Not in Dedham. In Dedham the only "woods" are repossessed,
over-priced, stick houses.
R H Draney - 28 Jul 2008 05:25 GMT
Rambler III filted:

>[snip]
>
>> It's common in my neck of the woods.
>
>Not in Dedham. In Dedham the only "woods" are repossessed,
>over-priced, stick houses.

Here in Phoenix, "woods" implies golf clubs....r

Signature

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.

tony cooper - 28 Jul 2008 06:18 GMT
>Rambler III filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Here in Phoenix, "woods" implies golf clubs....r

And, typical of our language, woods are now made of metal.

"Hickory" and "Persimmon" are now Ben & Jerry ice cream flavors.

Signature

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Richard Maurer - 28 Jul 2008 06:55 GMT
R H Draney wrote:
   Here in Phoenix, "woods" implies golf clubs.

Tony Cooper wrote:
   And, typical of our language, woods are now made of metal.

And, more air than metal.  The last few times I picked one up
in a sports store, they were so light and flimsy that I
thought that they were toys.  (It has been many years since
I played club and ball golf.)

--                       ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer              To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California       of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(In the year 2525, when Cleopatra comes alive, ... )
Mark Brader - 28 Jul 2008 14:17 GMT
Richard Maurer:
> (It has been many years since I played club and ball golf.)

That sounds like "brick-and-mortar store" to mean a store.

As opposed to what, then?  Perl golf?  Frisbee?
Signature

Mark Brader         "The world little knows or cares the storm through
Toronto              which you have had to pass.  It asks only if you
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Maria C. - 28 Jul 2008 21:38 GMT
> Richard Maurer:
>> (It has been many years since I played club and ball golf.)
>
> That sounds like "brick-and-mortar store" to mean a store.
>
> As opposed to what, then?  Perl golf?  Frisbee?

Maybe an online game? (Or is that what "perl golf" is?)

Signature

Maria C.

Richard Maurer - 30 Jul 2008 03:10 GMT
[re club-and-ball golf]
   That sounds like "brick-and-mortar store"
   to mean a store.

   As opposed to what, then?  Perl golf?  Frisbee?

As opposed to frisbee golf.  With real frisbees (world class).
Some players want to use the flying disc versions, but those
hit hard and so are only suitable for a dedicated course
where there are no innocent bywalkers.

Is there a phrase that means damaged by improvements"?
The old club-and-ball golf is not destroyed, but it sure
has been made expensive by all of the improvements in
balls and clubs.  Everyone wants to hit the ball farther
than his buddy, but that makes the courses longer and
less interesting (cant have many twists and turns).
Without looking it up, I'll bet that 60 yards would be
considered a good hit with an old 5-iron made
of an iron head tied to a wooden shaft by a long piece
of twine.  Today, that distance could be a mishit
with a 9-iron.  A shorter course with the same amount of hits
and less walking.  And so it is with the flying discs of
disc golf.

--                       ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer              To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California       of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
(When loaded, forbear)
Paul Wolff - 28 Jul 2008 11:43 GMT
>On 27 Jul 2008 21:25:02 -0700, R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>"Hickory" and "Persimmon" are now Ben & Jerry ice cream flavors.

I look forward to trying their lignum vitae flavour (so named for it's
'quick tongue' effect).

Since lignum vitae includes 'ironwood' among its noms de plume, it would
be particularly apt for a versatile golf club.
Signature

Paul

jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 28 Jul 2008 15:22 GMT
> >Rambler III filted:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> "Hickory" and "Persimmon" are now Ben & Jerry ice cream flavors.

I must have been whooshed.  Why is that more worth comment than
"Walnut" and "Cherry (Garcia)"?

--
Jerry without Ben
tony cooper - 28 Jul 2008 16:18 GMT
>> >Rambler III filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>I must have been whooshed.  Why is that more worth comment than
>"Walnut" and "Cherry (Garcia)"?

Golf club shafts were once made of hickory wood, and golf club heads -
when made of wood - are made of persimmon wood.  At least the good
ones.  These are the two types of wood associated with golf clubs.

My comment was intended as a joke about the two woods no longer being
associated with golf, so they might as well be ice cream flavors.

Signature

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

R H Draney - 28 Jul 2008 20:08 GMT
tony cooper filted:

>>> "Hickory" and "Persimmon" are now Ben & Jerry ice cream flavors.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>My comment was intended as a joke about the two woods no longer being
>associated with golf, so they might as well be ice cream flavors.

Hickory has always been a nut as much as it has a wood, and persimmon is first
and foremost a fruit and only incidentally a wood...at least that's the way it
is for ordinary people; golfers are an alien form of life....

Cherry is an interesting case...the bare name in English implies the fruit, and
the wood and flower are derived therefrom, but in Japanese it's the flower that
forms the basis term upon which the others are built....r

Signature

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.

Default User - 28 Jul 2008 20:52 GMT
> Hickory has always been a nut as much as it has a wood, and persimmon
> is first and foremost a fruit and only incidentally a wood...at least
> that's the way it is for ordinary people; golfers are an alien form
> of life....

I think I'll have to argue with the first assertion. I think more
people are familiar with hickory as wood (at least for smoking
purposes) than they are with hickory nuts. One doesn't see the latter
in the stores very much. Well, one does (pecan is a form of hickory)
but not labeled as "hickory nuts".

Brian

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If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 30 Jul 2008 05:31 GMT
> > Hickory has always been a nut as much as it has a wood, and persimmon
> > is first and foremost a fruit and only incidentally a wood...at least
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> people are familiar with hickory as wood (at least for smoking
> purposes) than they are with hickory nuts.
...

Oh.  Smoking meat.  Also charcoal.  Right.  Also in historical
references to baseball bats and Andrew Jackson.  Actually, I first
directly experienced hickory as neither nut nor wood, but as the most
easily identified tree in the forest (shagbark hickory).

--
Jerry Friedman
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 30 Jul 2008 05:32 GMT
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 07:22:15 -0700 (PDT), "jerry_fried...@yahoo.com"
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> when made of wood - are made of persimmon wood.  At least the good
> ones.  These are the two types of wood associated with golf clubs.
...

Thanks.  All is now clear.

--
Jerry, not Garcia
tony cooper - 30 Jul 2008 06:36 GMT
>> >> >Here in Phoenix, "woods" implies golf clubs....r
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>> when made of wood - are made of persimmon wood.  At least the good
>> ones.  These are the two types of wood associated with golf clubs.

>Thanks.  All is now clear.

An acquaintance of mine retired several years ago and bought one of
those huge Winnebago RVs.  The first year he and his wife just
traveled to visit relatives and for a little sight-seeing.  

Then they started to pick up some things from yard sales and small
auctions and re-selling them to interior decorators who specialize in
packaged decor for offices.  Old hickory-shaft golf clubs and other
antique golf items are gold for them.

They now travel nine months of the year and have a thriving business
in locating items for interior decorators.  They get want lists by
email from their clients.  They've sold stuff to restaurants like
Cracker Barrel, too.

I haven't seen them for awhile, so I don't know if the increase in gas
prices and the down-turn in the economy has affected them, but I would
suppose that this is off-set by more people offering the objects in
their attics for extra money.

   
Signature

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Frank ess - 30 Jul 2008 22:33 GMT
>>>>>> Here in Phoenix, "woods" implies golf clubs....r
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> I would suppose that this is off-set by more people offering the
> objects in their attics for extra money.

In the late 1990s I interviewed a car-theft victim who didn't so much
miss the vehicle as show red-hot resentment that his antique sandwich
was not in the trunk when the booty was recovered.

A few weeks later a near-fatal beating occurred. The weapon sustained
a broken shaft and was left at the scene. Eventually a single
perpetrator was caught and convicted of both crimes. True to form, he
denied guilt, all the way through sentencing. He may be back on the
sreets by now.

The property crime victim recovered his formerly valuable,
wooden-shafted sand wedge. He was furious. He'd have been less so if
he'd bothered to tell his insurance company about his collection of
collectibles.

Signature

Frank ess

Paul Wolff - 30 Jul 2008 23:07 GMT
>In the late 1990s I interviewed a car-theft victim who didn't so much
>miss the vehicle as show red-hot resentment that his antique sandwich
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>he'd bothered to tell his insurance company about his collection of
>collectibles.

And the connection between the sandwich and the sand wedge was?
Signature

Paul

R H Draney - 30 Jul 2008 23:24 GMT
Paul Wolff filted:

>>In the late 1990s I interviewed a car-theft victim who didn't so much
>>miss the vehicle as show red-hot resentment that his antique sandwich
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>
>And the connection between the sandwich and the sand wedge was?

The people who took down the original report finally understood what was so
important about some old leftovers....r

Signature

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.

tony cooper - 31 Jul 2008 00:05 GMT
>>>>>>> Here in Phoenix, "woods" implies golf clubs....r
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>miss the vehicle as show red-hot resentment that his antique sandwich
>was not in the trunk when the booty was recovered.

"Sandwich" is a new term to me for a golf club.  It couldn't have been
a "sand wedge", now could it?  Spellchecker turned "sandwedge" into
"sandwich"?

>A few weeks later a near-fatal beating occurred. The weapon sustained
>a broken shaft and was left at the scene. Eventually a single
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>he'd bothered to tell his insurance company about his collection of
>collectibles.

Signature

Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Raymond O'Hara - 29 Jul 2008 08:41 GMT
> Rambler III filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Here in Phoenix, "woods" implies golf clubs....r

I'll have you know we even have a "town forrest".
Rambler III - 29 Jul 2008 12:53 GMT
>> Rambler III filted:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> I'll have you know we even have a "town forrest".

Nathan Bedford's kin?
Herominous Boss - 27 Jul 2008 20:30 GMT
>On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
>was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
>as well to be prepared for any eventuality these days although
>encountering bear in Staples, our destination, would be fairly unusual)
>but also puzzled as I have never heard this expression before. Is this
>because I don't mix much with hunters?

It's in a Shorter Oxford dictionary, but it's tagged "US colloq."  Has
your husband been hanging out with Americans lately, or should the
Shorter Oxford change the tag to "formerly US colloq"?

I've heard the expression a lot and used it some, but I don't agree
with the point of view that it implies prepared excessively.  To me it
simply means impressively and thoroughly prepared.

Signature

Herominous Boss    | When I have to choose between two evils, I
Planet Earth       | pick the one I've never tried before.
Milky Way Galaxy   | -- Mae West
AmE                |

Skitt - 27 Jul 2008 21:06 GMT

>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> with the point of view that it implies prepared excessively.  To me it
> simply means impressively and thoroughly prepared.

That's what it means to me.
Signature

Skitt (AmE)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/jobs.html

The UnInmate - 27 Jul 2008 23:08 GMT
>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> That's what it means to me.

Ditto for CanE.
Maria C. - 28 Jul 2008 03:48 GMT
>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> That's what it means to me.

Sure. And sometimes, being impressively and thoroughly prepared can turn
out to mean "prepared excessively."

Signature

Maria C.

Chuck Riggs - 28 Jul 2008 12:57 GMT
>>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>>> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>Sure. And sometimes, being impressively and thoroughly prepared can turn
>out to mean "prepared excessively."

I don't think "loaded for bear" usually means overly prepared, but it
does mean prepared for anything.
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Maria C. - 28 Jul 2008 21:36 GMT
>>>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>>>> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> I don't think "loaded for bear" usually means overly prepared, but it
> does mean prepared for anything.

Right. All I meant (and didn't convey very well) was that being "loaded
for bear" /may turn out to be too much preparation for the task at
hand/.

If I could think of a good example, I'd give it, but Mondays aren't good
thinking days for me.

Signature

Maria C.

Chuck Riggs - 29 Jul 2008 14:28 GMT
>>>>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>>>>> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>If I could think of a good example, I'd give it, but Mondays aren't good
>thinking days for me.

Knowing of that propensity in the fair sex, God assigned washday to
Mondays.
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Maria C. - 30 Jul 2008 17:48 GMT
>> If I could think of a good example, I'd give it, but Mondays aren't
>> good thinking days for me.
>
> Knowing of that propensity in the fair sex, God assigned washday to
> Mondays.

It didn't stick, though (if it ever did). In today's world, laundry is
done whenever one wants or needs, and by any member of the family who's
old enough.

But God does get the credit for creating the people who invented washers
and dryers for indoor use.

Maria, who recently got a new washer and dryer. (The old set was 20+
years old, and starting to get very tired out.)
Chuck Riggs - 31 Jul 2008 10:57 GMT
>>> If I could think of a good example, I'd give it, but Mondays aren't
>>> good thinking days for me.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>But God does get the credit for creating the people who invented washers
>and dryers for indoor use.

Who created the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny and God, but man? I
can't give imaginary figures credit for anything but inspiring some
very good stories and music, but washers are not one of man's exciting
creations, so they needed little inspiration.

>Maria, who recently got a new washer and dryer. (The old set was 20+
>years old, and starting to get very tired out.)

You got good life from them. In today's throwaway world, you'll be
lucky to find another pair that good.
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Herominous Boss - 28 Jul 2008 17:04 GMT
>>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>>> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>Sure. And sometimes, being impressively and thoroughly prepared can turn
>out to mean "prepared excessively."

But then "loaded for bear" would not be an apt descriptor.  Something
like "loaded for buffalo", "loaded for elephant", or "hyperloaded"
would seem closer to the intended meaning.

If a preparer were clearly loaded excessively, then their preparation
would no longer be impressive.  And, to me, "thoroughly" and
"excessively" are close to mutually exclusive.
Chuck Riggs - 29 Jul 2008 14:38 GMT
>>>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>>>> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>like "loaded for buffalo", "loaded for elephant", or "hyperloaded"
>would seem closer to the intended meaning.

If you consider that the phrase originated in America, it makes
perfect sense. Elephants are not found there and buffaloes were
neither dangerous nor difficult to hit with a rifle, but bears are
both difficult to kill and dangerous. Don't forget that "loaded for
bear" implies that one is being handed a challenge, not a walk in the
park.

>If a preparer were clearly loaded excessively, then their preparation
>would no longer be impressive.  And, to me, "thoroughly" and
>"excessively" are close to mutually exclusive.

Signature

Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Herominous Boss - 29 Jul 2008 19:06 GMT
>>>>>> On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping
>>>>>> trip, I was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>perfect sense. Elephants are not found there and buffaloes were
>neither dangerous nor difficult to hit with a rifle,

But there was a type of firearm known as a "buffalo gun" that used a
much more powerful load than that of an ordinary rifle.  So "loaded
for buffalo" can be taken to mean that you are ready with very
powerful armament.

You can read about the buffalo gun at
http://www.bbhc.org/pointswest/PWArticle.cfm?ArticleID=42

In one episode of the old "Rick O'Shay" comic strip, Hipshot
Percussion is using a buffalo gun to fire at a gang of outlaws who are
holed up in a cabin.  As his bullets tear holes in the walls of the
cabin, one of the bad guys says something like, "What in tarnation's
he shootin' at us, a canon?"

>but bears are
>both difficult to kill and dangerous. Don't forget that "loaded for
>bear" implies that one is being handed a challenge, not a walk in the
>park.

Signature

End of Message

Paul Wolff - 29 Jul 2008 19:24 GMT
>But there was a type of firearm known as a "buffalo gun" that used a
>much more powerful load than that of an ordinary rifle.  So "loaded
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>cabin, one of the bad guys says something like, "What in tarnation's
>he shootin' at us, a canon?"

What's so odd about shooting rounds?

Signature

Paul
On the ball

Maria C. - 29 Jul 2008 21:55 GMT
> Chuck Riggs wrote, re "loaded for bear":

>> If you consider that the phrase originated in America, it makes
>> perfect sense. Elephants are not found there and buffaloes were
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> cabin, one of the bad guys says something like, "What in tarnation's
> he shootin' at us, a canon?"

The books of the Bible? A list of saints? (And what flimsy material were
the walls made of?

(just kidding)

Signature

Maria C.

R H Draney - 29 Jul 2008 22:17 GMT
Maria C. filted:

>> In one episode of the old "Rick O'Shay" comic strip, Hipshot
>> Percussion is using a buffalo gun to fire at a gang of outlaws who are
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>(just kidding)

One of the (post-Emma Peel?) episodes of "The Avengers" had Steed and his
partner looking for a weathervane "in the shape of a cannon"...the big ordnance
didn't seem to be represented, and then one of them spotted a windcock that
looked like a bishop in his mitre....r

Signature

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.

LFS - 29 Jul 2008 22:29 GMT
> Maria C. filted:
>>> In one episode of the old "Rick O'Shay" comic strip, Hipshot
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> didn't seem to be represented, and then one of them spotted a windcock that
> looked like a bishop in his mitre....r

I know nothing of ecclesiastical hierarchies but isn't a canon different
from a bish? Reminds me of the joke about nuns and queens giving birth.

Signature

Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

R H Draney - 29 Jul 2008 23:12 GMT
LFS filted:

>> One of the (post-Emma Peel?) episodes of "The Avengers" had Steed and his
>>partner looking for a weathervane "in the shape of a cannon"...the big ordnance
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>I know nothing of ecclesiastical hierarchies but isn't a canon different
>from a bish? Reminds me of the joke about nuns and queens giving birth.

He was in silhouette...not a lot of fine detail, but he did have the pointy
hat....r

Signature

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.

Richard Bollard - 30 Jul 2008 05:06 GMT
>LFS filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>He was in silhouette...not a lot of fine detail, but he did have the pointy
>hat....r

My "Terror of Saint Trinians" book (a real story not just drawings)
has Canon Bawl as one of the characters.

One of my favourites is Hernia Rampage.
Signature

Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.

Chuck Riggs - 30 Jul 2008 10:45 GMT
>LFS filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>He was in silhouette...not a lot of fine detail, but he did have the pointy
>hat....r

Are bishops and canons in the Catholic hierarchy or the Protestant
one, or both, and which is of higher rank?
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 30 Jul 2008 14:53 GMT
>>LFS filted:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Are bishops and canons in the Catholic hierarchy or the Protestant
>one, or both, and which is of higher rank?

Both. Bishops outrank canons.

The functions of canons vary between and within denominations.
Wikipedia attempts to clarify:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_%28priest%29

   ....
   Secular canons [1]

   In the Catholic Church the members of the chapter of a
   cathedral or of a collegiate church (so called after their
   chapter) are canons.
   ....
   All canons of the Church of England have been secular since
   the Reformation, although an individual canon may themself
   also be a member of a religious order. Mostly, however, they
   are ordained (that is, priests or members of the clergy).
   Today, the system of canons is retained almost exclusively
   in connection with cathedral churches. A canon is a member
   of the chapter of (for the most part) priests, headed by a
   Dean, which is responsible for administering a cathedral or
   certain other churches that are styled collegiate church.
   The Dean and Chapter are the formal body which has legal
   responsibility for the cathedral and for electing the
   (arch)bishop.

   Lay canons
   
   In addition to canons who are clerks in holy orders,
   cathedrals in the Anglican communion may also appoint lay
   persons as canons. The rank of "lay canon" is especially
   conferred upon diocesan chancellors (the senior legal
   officer of the diocese, who is usually, though not
   exclusively, a lay person).
   ....

I understand the arrangement in the Church of England is that
while a bishop has a special seat, a cathedra, in the cathedral
of the diocese of which he is spiritual head he has no
adminstrative control over the cathedral; that is the
responsibility of the canons and dean: the chapter.

The Wikipedia article describes other uses of "canon" (a person)
and the origins of the term.

[1] There is a distinction between this use of "secular" and the
word "lay".

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/secular?view=uk

   secular
       
   * adjective
     1 not religious, sacred, or spiritual.
     2 (of clergy) not subject to or bound by religious rule.
     ....    
   * noun a secular priest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular

   Secular clergy in the Roman Catholic Church, who,
   traditionally, do not live the monastic lives of the regular
   clergy and are therefore, in a sense, less religious and
   more worldly.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Fred Springer - 30 Jul 2008 22:15 GMT
> The functions of canons vary between and within denominations.
> Wikipedia attempts to clarify:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_%28priest%29

[Snipped much information about canons]

Canons also pop up from time to time in literature: several in
Trollope's Barsetshire novels, of course; Canon Chasuble, who finally
wins Miss Prism in "The Importance of Being Ernest"; and one or two in
the detective fiction of Dorothy L Sayers and Agatha Christie, I seem to
recall.

But my favourite  is Canon Throbbing, the unwillingly celibate clergyman
in Alan Bennett's "Habeas Corpus". Bennett describes him in the Dramatis
Personae as "an unfired canon".
Garrett Wollman - 30 Jul 2008 22:48 GMT
>Canons also pop up from time to time in literature: several in
>Trollope's Barsetshire novels, of course; Canon Chasuble, who finally
>wins Miss Prism in "The Importance of Being Ernest"; and one or two in
>the detective fiction of Dorothy L Sayers and Agatha Christie, I seem to
>recall.

There's also Canon Tallis in several of Madeleine L'Engle's books
(although I don't recall whether he makes it out of the YA fantasy
into the adult fiction segment of her oeuvre).  She also wrote a novel
set around the Cathedral Church of St. John the Unfinished, and some
of the people found therein.  (The viewpoint character is a retired
concert pianist whose late husband had been in the French resistance
during The War, and of course all of the other characters are
fictionalized as well.)

-GAWollman
Signature

Garrett A. Wollman   | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those   | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL.     | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness

R H Draney - 30 Jul 2008 22:55 GMT
Fred Springer filted:

>Canons also pop up from time to time in literature: several in
>Trollope's Barsetshire novels, of course; Canon Chasuble, who finally
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>in Alan Bennett's "Habeas Corpus". Bennett describes him in the Dramatis
>Personae as "an unfired canon".

"It's high time the bishop made his move", Tom said obliquely....r

Signature

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.

Chuck Riggs - 31 Jul 2008 13:50 GMT
>> The functions of canons vary between and within denominations.
>> Wikipedia attempts to clarify:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_%28priest%29

Mention of the secular clergy in that article intrigued me. Wikipedia
has this on them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_clergy

>[Snipped much information about canons]
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>in Alan Bennett's "Habeas Corpus". Bennett describes him in the Dramatis
>Personae as "an unfired canon".

Excellent!
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Maria C. - 30 Jul 2008 17:37 GMT
>> LFS filted:
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Are bishops and canons in the Catholic hierarchy or the Protestant
> one, or both, and which is of higher rank?

Your questions have been answered, but I wish to point out that "canon"
refers not only to a person. From Merriam-Webster Online:

begin dictionary listing===
1 a: a regulation or dogma decreed by a church council b: a provision of
canon law

2[Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin, from Latin, model]
: the most solemn and unvarying part of the Mass including the
consecration of the bread and wine

3[Middle English, from Late Latin, from Latin, standard] a: an
authoritative list of books accepted as Holy Scripture b: the authentic
works of a writer c: a sanctioned or accepted group or body of related
works <the canon of great literature>

4 a: an accepted principle or rule b: a criterion or standard of
judgment c: a body of principles, rules, standards, or norms

5[Late Greek kanon, from Greek, model] : a contrapuntal musical
composition in which each successively entering voice presents the
initial theme usually transformed in a strictly consistent way===end
dictionary listing

It's also "A catalogue [list] of saints ackowledged and canonized in the
Roman Catholic Church." (This from the 1913 Webster Dictionary and other
sources.)

Signature

Maria C.

Jitze - 30 Jul 2008 19:30 GMT
>Your questions have been answered, but I wish to point out that "canon"
>refers not only to a person. From Merriam-Webster Online:
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>Roman Catholic Church." (This from the 1913 Webster Dictionary and other
>sources.)

Lots of good definitions of canon - good stuff! But you left one out -

A Canon can also feature  prominently in a specific kind of religious
war -  usualy (but not always) something to do with Nikon.

I'll get me coat...

Jitze
Maria C. - 30 Jul 2008 20:01 GMT
Jitze wrote, in reply to my post about "canon":

> Lots of good definitions of canon - good stuff! But you left one out -
>
> A Canon can also feature  prominently in a specific kind of religious
> war -  usualy (but not always) something to do with Nikon.
>
> I'll get me coat...

Would you believe I never even thought of the camera? I, the owner of an
Olympus... and a Canon? My only excuse: I use the Olympus more
frequently these days as it's newer and lighter.

Signature

Maria C.,
Who is not a professional photographer (by any definition).

Skitt - 30 Jul 2008 20:14 GMT
> Jitze wrote, in reply to my post about "canon":

>> Lots of good definitions of canon - good stuff! But you left one out
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> an Olympus... and a Canon? My only excuse: I use the Olympus more
> frequently these days as it's newer and lighter.

I have a Minolta X-700 with a bunch of lenses and filters, including a 70mm
to 210 mm zoom, but I haven't used it in yonks.
Signature

Skitt (AmE)
http://www.geocities.com/opus731/jobs.html

R H Draney - 30 Jul 2008 20:26 GMT
Maria C. filted:

>Jitze wrote, in reply to my post about "canon":
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Olympus... and a Canon? My only excuse: I use the Olympus more
>frequently these days as it's newer and lighter.

Hey, I own a Canon too....only mine's a typewriter....r

Signature

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.

Chuck Riggs - 31 Jul 2008 13:56 GMT
>>> LFS filted:
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>Roman Catholic Church." (This from the 1913 Webster Dictionary and other
>sources.)

Then would it be fair to call the canon God's FAQ?
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Barbara Bailey - 30 Jul 2008 18:16 GMT
Chuck Riggs wrote:
>>LFS filted:

>>>I know nothing of ecclesiastical hierarchies but isn't a canon
>>>different from a bish? Reminds me of the joke about nuns and queens
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Are bishops and canons in the Catholic hierarchy or the Protestant
> one, or both, and which is of higher rank?

Catholics have bishops but not canons. We don't have vicars, vergers, or
sextons either.
John Holmes - 31 Jul 2008 13:27 GMT
> Catholics have bishops but not canons. We don't have vicars, vergers,
> or sextons either.

There's a Vicar Of Rome*, at least. Is he a Catholic? (Do bear unload in
the woods?)

*currently, I think, Cadinal Agostino Vallini

And the ever-helpful Google says:
Job search for Vicar of Rome jobs at MySpace Jobs. Take a look at our
extensive number of Vicar of Rome job listings!
http://jobs.myspace.com/a/ms-jobs/list/q-Vicar+of+Rome

Signature

Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

Chuck Riggs - 31 Jul 2008 14:02 GMT
>Chuck Riggs wrote:
>>>LFS filted:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Catholics have bishops but not canons. We don't have vicars, vergers, or
>sextons either.

If Catholics don't have sextons, who rings their bells? I hope the
Church came up with something more imaginative than bell-ringers.
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 31 Jul 2008 16:29 GMT
>>Chuck Riggs wrote:
>>>>LFS filted:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>If Catholics don't have sextons, who rings their bells? I hope the
>Church came up with something more imaginative than bell-ringers.

Sextons, actually:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13748a.htm

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Alan Jones - 31 Jul 2008 15:49 GMT
>>>LFS filted:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Catholics have bishops but not canons. We don't have vicars, vergers, or
> sextons either.

The RC church in England does have some canons: e.g. the Administrator of
Westminster Cathedral, the Revd Canon Christopher Tuckwell. I sometimes play
for a funeral at the RC church in Trowbridge: the Revd Canon Liam
O'Driscoll, the parish priest there, is in overall charge of the RC Deanery
(9 parishes). I'm sure there must be many more canons, perhaps at least many
as there are RC Deaneries.

Alan Jones
Fred Springer - 31 Jul 2008 20:26 GMT
>>>> LFS filted:
>>>>> I know nothing of ecclesiastical hierarchies but isn't a canon
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Alan Jones

So it's a matter of canons to left of them, canons to right of them?
Ours not to reason why, I suppose.
R H Draney - 31 Jul 2008 21:06 GMT
Fred Springer filted:

>> The RC church in England does have some canons: e.g. the Administrator of
>> Westminster Cathedral, the Revd Canon Christopher Tuckwell. I sometimes play
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>So it's a matter of canons to left of them, canons to right of them?
>Ours not to reason why, I suppose.

Would the last person out of Sevastopol please turn out the light brigade?...

R H "crimea river" Draney

Signature

Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 31 Jul 2008 16:28 GMT
>Chuck Riggs wrote:
>>>LFS filted:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Catholics have bishops but not canons. We don't have vicars, vergers, or
>sextons either.

The Catholic Encyclopedia says that the Catholoc Church does
have canons. The article on the Chapter of a cathedral has more
information than most people would need.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03582b.htm

   Officials of the chapter
   
   At the head of the chapter as a corporate body, is a
   president who, as before said, is called in different
   countries by various names, though the prevailing one is
   that of dean. The duty of this official is to convoke the
   chapter and preside over it. He is also to see that the
   canonical statutes are observed in all that relates to
   capitular meetings and the choir service. The chapter
   appoints a treasurer, a secretary, and a sacristan. The
--> Council of Trent decreed (Sess. V, Cap. i) that a canon
   theologian should be constituted in cathedral churches. His
   office is to explain the Holy Scripture and the dogmas of
   the Faith, and also to treat questions pertaining to moral
--> theology. A canon penitentiary is likewise to be appointed
   (Sess. XXIV, cap. viii) with power to hear confessions in
   the whole diocese.
   ....

   Other members of the chapter
   
   These are called by the general name of capitulars or
--> canons. The division of such canons into seniors and
   juniors, residential and forensic, prebendal and
   semi-prebendal, etc., belongs rather to archæology. The
   number of simple canons is not fixed by a general law of the
   Church, and the bishop can, with the consent of his chapter,
   increase their number, except in cases where the pope has
   absolutely determined how many canons shall compose a
   particular chapter. In the latter case no new capitulars can
   be added except by Apostolic authority. ... In England and
   Scotland the number of canons is usually ten, and the
   president is called provost. In Ireland the chapter is
   presided over by a dean, and besides the canons penitentiary
   and theologian, there are usually also a number of other
   dignitaries.

Ah ha!

This final section says that (at the time of compiling the
article from sources dated 1882, 1886, 1889, 1890) there were no
cathedral chapters in the United States:

   Cathedral chapters in missionary countries
   
   In England, Ireland, Scotland, Holland, and some other
   countries, cathedral chapters have been erected. As the
   circumstances of these countries are different from those in
   lands where the Church is canonically established, the Holy
   See has made some changes in the common law governing
   cathedral chapters. The canons are dispensed from residence
   near the cathedral church, and may be parish priests or
   missionaries dispersed through the diocese. They are
   likewise dispensed from the daily chanting of the Divine
   Office in choir. It is generally prescribed, however, that
   when the capitulars come to the cathedral for their monthly
   meetings, they must recite Terce together and assist at a
   conventual Mass. As a general rule the rights and offices of
   canons in missionary countries are the same as those already
   enumerated for places where canonical law is in full force.
   The Bishop is therefore to ask their counsel or consent, as
   the case may be, in matters referring to diocesan
   administration and when the episcopal see is vacant, the
   chapter succeeds to the deceased bishop and elects a vicar
   capitular. In the United States, cathedral chapters have not
   as yet been constituted. In 1883 Propaganda consulted the
   American bishops on the advisability of erecting them, but
   the prelates judged that the time was not yet opportune.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Raymond O'Hara - 30 Jul 2008 03:48 GMT
> Maria C. filted:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> that
> looked like a bishop in his mitre....r

I remember that episode.
Herominous Boss - 29 Jul 2008 22:38 GMT
>> Chuck Riggs wrote, re "loaded for bear":
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>(just kidding)

Would you believe it was the bad guy who didn't know how to spell
"cannon," not me?

Okay, then I have to confess that it had been so long since I had had
occasion to write anything about a cannon that I apparently had
forgotten how to spell it.

I could say it was a typo, but I don't like to lie when there's no
money involved.

Signature

EOM

Raymond O'Hara - 27 Jul 2008 21:37 GMT
>>On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
>>was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> with the point of view that it implies prepared excessively.  To me it
> simply means impressively and thoroughly prepared.

Yes, loaded up for whatever may come.
Chuck Riggs - 28 Jul 2008 12:54 GMT
>>On enquiring whether Husband was ready to set out on a shopping trip, I
>>was informed that yes, he was "loaded for bear". I was reassured (it is
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>with the point of view that it implies prepared excessively.  To me it
>simply means impressively and thoroughly prepared.

Same here. I haven't heard it lately, but when I did it meant ready
for any eventuality.
Signature


Regards,

Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland

 
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