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Discussion Groups / English Usage / August 2008Eentsy Weentsy Spider...
I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we both enjoy it a lot. I came across a nice rhyme: "The Eentsy Weentsy Spider..." It's cute. I wonder if "Weentsy Eentsy" means something specific, or is it just a funny name for that spider going up the water spout. Another option possible is that the phrase neither means anything nor is it a name, however it is supposed to induce some meaningful associations, potentially characterizing the little creature... Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a few, like "Row, row, row your boat", "If you are happy and you know it...", "Old McDonald", "Twinkle, twinkle, little star", and "The Eentsy Weentsy spider". Regards,  SignatureRicardo >I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to him, >play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we both enjoy it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >however it is supposed to induce some meaningful associations, potentially >characterizing the little creature... Same as "teeny weeny", i.e. tiny. Here in Britain it's usually called "Itsy Bitsy Spider". Same meaning. > Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a kind > of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a few, like > "Row, row, row your boat", "If you are happy and you know it...", "Old > McDonald", "Twinkle, twinkle, little star", and "The Eentsy Weentsy > spider". One, two, three, four, five, Once I caught a fish alive, Six, seven, eight, nine, ten, Then I let go again. Why did you let it go? Because it bit my finger so. Which finger did it bite? This little finger on the right. http://www.landofnurseryrhymes.co.uk/ Adrian >> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Same as "teeny weeny", i.e. tiny. Here in Britain it's usually called > "Itsy Bitsy Spider". Same meaning. Well, *here* in Britain it's usually called "Incy Wincy Spider". Am yo frum Brum? SignatureRay UK >>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >>> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Well, *here* in Britain it's usually called "Incy Wincy Spider". Am > yo frum Brum? Known as Incy Wincy Spider, or perhaps Incey Wincey Spider, as I've not seen it written before, to this Mancunian. Do all versions have "... climbing up the spout. Down came the rain, and washed the spider out"? >>>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I >>>> talk to him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Do all versions have "... climbing up the spout. Down came the > rain, and washed the spider out"? My remembery: Eensy Beensy spider went up the water spout. Down came the rain and washed the spider out. Out came the sun and dried up the rain And the Eensy Beensy spider went up the spout again. SignatureFrank ess >>>>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I >>>>> talk to him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Out came the sun and dried up the rain > And the Eensy Beensy spider went up the spout again. And mine: Incy Wincy spider climbed the water spout Down came the rain and washed poor Incy out Out came the sun and dried up the rain And Incy Wincy spider went up the spout again. SignatureRay UK >>>>>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I >>>>>> talk to him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Out came the sun and dried up the rain > And Incy Wincy spider went up the spout again. Ah, thanks. I'd forgotten the last half after 40 years. > And mine: > > Incy Wincy spider climbed the water spout > Down came the rain and washed poor Incy out > Out came the sun and dried up the rain > And Incy Wincy spider went up the spout again. Moral of the nursery rhyme: keep striving toward your goal, even then faced with major setbacks! >> And mine: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Moral of the nursery rhyme: keep striving toward your goal, even then faced >with major setbacks! Why? Is there a positive end to the story? AFAIK, he just gets washed back down before he gets out of the downspout? If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) >>>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >>>> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Do all versions have "... climbing up the spout. Down came the rain, and > washed the spider out"? Here's a favourite of ours - I think it's US. This one is "itsy bitsy" but the children here call many spiders "incy wincy" spider. And this one has the spout. >>>>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >>>>> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > but the children here call many spiders "incy wincy" spider. And this > one has the spout. It would have helped if I'd pasted the URL... http://music.download.com/thelemontwists/3600-8173_32-100894576.html >>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >>> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Well, *here* in Britain it's usually called "Incy Wincy Spider". Am > yo frum Brum? My sisters learned it as "The Itsy Bitsy Spider". Wisconsin, 1950s. >>> Same as "teeny weeny", i.e. tiny. Here in Britain it's usually >>> called "Itsy Bitsy Spider". Same meaning. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Wisconsin, 1950s. "Ipsy Wipsy" is what I remember. I'm not sure whether it is a regional thing, or something that is inherited through families. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > My sisters learned it as "The Itsy Bitsy Spider". > > Wisconsin, 1950s. My mother sang "Itsy Bitsy Spider" (or was it "Teensy Weensy Spider"?) to my kids, but I don't remember ever hearing it myself in childhood (or babyhood, which I don't remember anyway, of course). So far, no one seems to have mentioned the hand movements that go with the song. Itsy Bitsy Spider climbed up the water spout: Hands a few inches apart, fingers making a wiggly climbing motion while hands gradually ascend. Down came the rain and washed the spider out: Hands a few inches apart, fingers making a wiggly "raining" motion while hands descend. Up came the sun and dried up all the rain: Arms move up and away from the body, sort of simulating a sunrise. Itsy Bitsy Spider climbed up the spout again:) Repeat wiggly climbing mostion from first line. SignatureMaria C. >> My sisters learned it as "The Itsy Bitsy Spider". >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Itsy Bitsy Spider climbed up the spout again:) > Repeat wiggly climbing mostion from first line. As I recall, my former wife sang "Itsy Bitsy Spider" to our kids. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/ >So far, no one seems to have mentioned the hand movements that go with >the song. > >Itsy Bitsy Spider climbed up the water spout: >Hands a few inches apart, fingers making a wiggly climbing motion while >hands gradually ascend. In the version I learnt at my mother's knee, for this part of it you put your left index finger to your right thumb and vice versa, and then swivel one thumb and index finger around upwards, re-join, then the other, and on upwards until the end of that line. >Down came the rain and washed the spider out: >Hands a few inches apart, fingers making a wiggly "raining" motion while >hands descend. > >Up came the sun and dried up all the rain: >Arms move up and away from the body, sort of simulating a sunrise. These parts are the same. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >> So far, no one seems to have mentioned the hand movements that go >> with the song. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > then swivel one thumb and index finger around upwards, re-join, then > the other, and on upwards until the end of that line. Yes. That sounds familiar. >> Down came the rain and washed the spider out: >> Hands a few inches apart, fingers making a wiggly "raining" motion [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > These parts are the same. >> "Maria C." wrote: >>> So far, no one seems to have mentioned the hand movements that go >>> with the song. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Yes. That sounds familiar. Yup. >>> Down came the rain and washed the spider out: >>> Hands a few inches apart, fingers making a wiggly "raining" motion [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> These parts are the same. I don't remember those. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/ >>> So far, no one seems to have mentioned the hand movements that go >>> with the song. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Yes. That sounds familiar. I've seen that, too. It may be more widespread than my version. (Thanks, Katy and Pat.) >>> Down came the rain and washed the spider out: >>> Hands a few inches apart, fingers making a wiggly "raining" motion [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >> These parts are the same. SignatureMaria C. > >So far, no one seems to have mentioned the hand movements that go with > >the song. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ Same hand motions for me...and I still use them whenever I teach this song to children. > In the version I learnt at my mother's knee, for this part of it you > put your left index finger to your right thumb and vice versa, Heresy! It has to be thumb-to-pinky, so all the fingers wave around with each step to show how big and scary the whole set of spider legs is even though the spider is really only eensy-weensy. My little sister somehow picked up the two-finger itsy-bitsy version later, even though she learned the same version in the same nursery school as I did. ¬R >> In the version I learnt at my mother's knee, for this part of it you >> put your left index finger to your right thumb and vice versa, > >Heresy! It has to be thumb-to-pinky, so all the fingers wave around >with each step to show how big and scary the whole set of spider legs is >even though the spider is really only eensy-weensy. Oooh! That's new to me, but I like it. Not the easiest thing to do, though, or at least not very fast. i must practise. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ ><NotR@bestweb.net> wrote: >>Heresy! It has to be thumb-to-pinky, so all the fingers wave around >Oooh! That's new to me, but I like it. Not the easiest thing to do, I have trouble imagining most preschoolers forming the thumb-to- forefinger square, actually. I've only ever seen adults do it-- except for my niece, but she was born with Fingers Of Pianist. ¬R >@< >@< >@< >@< >@< http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/emopvere.html "insulting me; that is one of alt.religion.kibology's purposes" --jwgh >> My sisters learned it as "The Itsy Bitsy Spider". >> Wisconsin, 1950s. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Itsy Bitsy Spider climbed up the spout again:) > Repeat wiggly climbing mostion from first line. Thanks Maria. The moves are cool and will definitely make the rhyme more attractive to the kid. I'll give it a shot! Regards, SignatureRicardo >>> My sisters learned it as "The Itsy Bitsy Spider". >>> Wisconsin, 1950s. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > more attractive to the kid. I'll give it a shot! > Regards, Oh, here's another song. It might have had some hand movements, too. Down by the station, early in the morning, Stand the little puffer-bellies all in a row. (Th' th' that's all, folks!) >Oh, here's another song. It might have had some hand movements, too. > >Down by the station, early in the morning, >Stand the little puffer-bellies all in a row. (Th' th' that's all, >folks!) I remember that as "puffer-billies". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Oh, here's another song. It might have had some hand movements, too. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> > I remember that as "puffer-billies". Mine was "puffing-billies". SignatureRay UK >>> Oh, here's another song. It might have had some hand movements, >>> too. Down by the station, early in the morning, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Mine was "puffing-billies". Me, too. Like Row row row your boat, it is a "round", I think. ... See the little puffing billies, all in a row. ... ? (along comes the driver Turns a little handle) Chug chug Toot toot off they go. --------- Old Mickey Brennagan had a bull pup And at fighting he'd never give up. Did every you see such a wonderful dog As old Mickey Brennagan's pup? He got in a fight down the street one day And he fought with his mouth open wide. He swallowed the dog and all four of his feet And choked on his tail til he died. Oh, a tarr arr arr and a kii yii yii And at fighting he'd never give up. Did ever you see such a wonderful dog As old Mickey Brennagan's pup? I never saw this one written down. My (born in England, raised in Mormon Utah) grandfather sang it to his children and grandchildren. Another? Sure, why not. When I was born my ma and pa Just looked at me and said, "Oh, pshaw" The nurse she said, "A boy, I think" and Doc went out to get a drink. They always, always pick on me. Never, never let me be. I know what I'll do, bye and by: I'll eat a worm and then I'll die. And when I'm gone, I know they'll be Mighty sorry that they picked on me. Each has a simple melody, but I'm not musically enabled, so of no help there. Grampa also sang about the Cat (who) Came Back; I heard a chorus sing a version of it on an LP at about the time of Stereo's popularization. It was an album of Southern songs, which suggests to me Grampa might have learned it, and perhaps other songs he sang, while on his mission in Mississippi, or thereabouts. Old Billy Johnson, he had troubles of his own. Used to have a yeller cat that wouldn't leave his home. Tried everything he thought of, for to drive that cat away, Even gave him to a preacher, and told him for to stay. But The Cat came back, for he couldn't stay away Gave him to a little girl, with him a ten-pound note She was going down the river in a little open boat. The boat it ... And the little girl was drowned. But The Cat came back etc The man around the corner said he'd shoot the Cat on sight Loaded up his shotgun with nails and dynamite He waited in the alley for the Cat to come around Ninety million little pieces of the man was all they found. But The Cat came back, for he couldn't stay away Gave him to a man who was going way out West Said to drop him off at any place that he thought best. The train it went around a bend and struck a broken rail Not a man in all the party was there left to tell the tale. But The Cat came back etc Gave him to a man going up in a balloon Said to hand him out to the man up in the moon The man he reached him out, so all the people said Peter's fingers slipped and the Cat fell dead. Oh, I'm happy tonight, for that Cat's out of sight Til we meet on that beautiful shore. But The Cat came back, for he couldn't stay away (Thought he was a goner) But the cat came back, for he could-un't staaaay awaaay. SignatureFrank ess Born on the res; first footwear was a pair of beaded moccasins hand-made by the chief's wife; got his first black eye falling off a pool table in the Trading Post. No Indian-blood pretensions. [nine times out of ten] > But the cat came back, for he could-un't staaaay awaaay. The NFB did a cartoon of that one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wacMgB-gKs&feature=related > [nine times out of ten] > >> But the cat came back, for he could-un't staaaay awaaay. > > The NFB did a cartoon of that one. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wacMgB-gKs&feature=related Excellent. It helped me remember a few phrases that I'd not recalled. Thank you. SignatureFrank ess Frank ess filted: >> [nine times out of ten] >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Excellent. It helped me remember a few phrases that I'd not recalled. Is there anything the NFB *hasn't* done a film of?...I loved the one about fire safety.... At one time they were in friendly competition with the folks in Zagreb to see who could be first to saturate the world's animation libraries....r SignatureEvelyn Wood just looks at the pictures. > Frank ess filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Is there anything the NFB *hasn't* done a film of?...I loved the > one about fire safety.... "I have to wash the rocks"? "Mouse flambeau/choresterol"? "Pickles"? Yeah... a great source of bywords around our house: "Hot Stuff". The children don't seem to have gotten around to uploading it, but there is a partial clip at http://www.nfb.ca/collection/films/fiche/vPlayer.php?id=11146 . > At one time they were in friendly competition with the folks in > Zagreb to see who could be first to saturate the world's animation > libraries....r Possibly by coinciddence, the film above was made by one Zlatko Grgic. >Frank ess filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Is there anything the NFB *hasn't* done a film of?...I loved the one about fire >safety.... AOL. I also loved the scrabble game/nuclear war one, and the _Log Driver's Waltz_ animation. >At one time they were in friendly competition with the folks in Zagreb to see >who could be first to saturate the world's animation libraries....r Signatureroses are #FF0000 violets are #0000FF all my base are belong to you >>>> My sisters learned it as "The Itsy Bitsy Spider". >>>> Wisconsin, 1950s. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Down by the station, early in the morning, > Stand the little puffer-bellies all in a row. (Th' th' that's all, folks!) Man at the signal, Pulls a little lever, Whoo-whoo, chuff-chuff, Off we go! Ricardo filted: >>> My sisters learned it as "The Itsy Bitsy Spider". >>> Wisconsin, 1950s. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Thanks Maria. The moves are cool and will definitely make the rhyme more >attractive to the kid. I'll give it a shot! We didn't have hand movements...they may have been thought uncomfortably close to dancing for our Baptist teachers....r SignatureEvelyn Wood just looks at the pictures. musika wrote, in <HrJpk.43797$E41.38957@text.news.virginmedia.com> on Sat, 16 Aug 2008 23:31:51 GMT: > >> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to > >> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Well, *here* in Britain it's usually called "Incy Wincy Spider". That is how I remember it. > Am yo frum Brum? SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > >> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to > >> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Well, *here* in Britain it's usually called "Incy Wincy Spider". Am yo frum > Brum? Incy Wincy is what I grew up with (see below) and is what my son learnt at nursery in Manchester. Which is a relief because the ructions when he learns different words for songs at nursery from what we sing at home are horrendous. It's very hard to argue with a 4yo. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >Incy Wincy is what I grew up with (see below) and is what my son learnt >at nursery in Manchester. Which is a relief because the ructions when he >learns different words for songs at nursery from what we sing at home >are horrendous. It's very hard to argue with a 4yo. I confess to feeling much the same way. The others are simply *wrong*, dammit. They can't have learnt them properly. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to him, >>play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we both enjoy it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Same as "teeny weeny", i.e. tiny. Here in Britain it's usually called > "Itsy Bitsy Spider". Same meaning. I learned it as the "itsy bitsy spider" and I'm not british. On Aug 17, 1:00 am, "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote: > I learned it as the "itsy bitsy spider" and I'm not british. Dittto. NYC, 1970s. >> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > http://www.landofnurseryrhymes.co.uk/ > Adrian Thanks. A very nice rhyme indeed. Is there a melody for that? Regards, SignatureRicardo >>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >>> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Thanks. A very nice rhyme indeed. Is there a melody for that? > Regards, Yes it has a melody. You can hear it here. I learned with a slightly livelier tempo. http://www.hello-world.com/English/song/itsy-bitsy-spider.php >>>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >>>> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > You can hear it here. I learned with a slightly livelier tempo. > http://www.hello-world.com/English/song/itsy-bitsy-spider.php Oh, you didn't get me, I guess. I meant the tune for your rhyme about the finger-biting fish. Is there a tune for that one? Regards, SignatureRicardo >>>> One, two, three, four, five, >>>> Once I caught a fish alive, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Oh, you didn't get me, I guess. I meant the tune for your rhyme about > the finger-biting fish. Is there a tune for that one? There is a tune, but I don't think it's used for anything else. Ah, there are several versions on YouTube. This one has the right tempo (many of the others are turgid): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibjz44Er_qs Although I disagree with a couple of the words and agree with those posted above. SignatureDavid >>>>> One, two, three, four, five, >>>>> Once I caught a fish alive, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Although I disagree with a couple of the words and agree with those > posted above. I can still hear the mellifluous tones of the lady who sang it all those years ago on "Listen with Mother" (Rightpondians of a certain age will now be thinking "Are you sitting comfortably?") SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> Ah, there are several versions on YouTube. This one has the right >> tempo (many of the others are turgid): [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > years ago on "Listen with Mother" (Rightpondians of a certain age will > now be thinking "Are you sitting comfortably?") Then I'll begin. And now I shall suffer from Dolly Suite STS (which can be borne). SignatureDavid >>>>> One, two, three, four, five, >>>>> Once I caught a fish alive, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Although I disagree with a couple of the words and agree with those posted > above. Wow, thanks a lot for the link. Why haven't I thought about Youtube myself?! There are a lot more nice rhymes to be found there. Thanks so much again! Regards, SignatureRicardo Le lundi 18 août 2008 à 08:41:58, Raymond O'Hara a écrit dans alt.usage.english : > You can hear it here. I learned with a slightly livelier tempo. > http://www.hello-world.com/English/song/itsy-bitsy-spider.php Here is a longer version. Though I wouldn't call it livelier. <http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=8TozO_Z4Uao> Signature___________ _/ _ \_`_`_`_) Serge PACCALIN -- sp ad mailclub.net \ \_L_) Il faut donc que les hommes commencent -'(__) par n'être pas fanatiques pour mériter _/___(_) la tolérance. -- Voltaire, 1763 > I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to > him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we both [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > meaningful associations, potentially characterizing the little > creature... "Eentsy weentsy" means "very small". It's nonsense, but it's nonsense that makes sense, in an odd way. "Eentsy" is babytalk for "small"; "weentsy" is babytalk for "even smaller". So, something that's eentsy-weentsy is very small indeed. Even though all three would be classified as babytalk, adults sometimes use them in a very informal setting, or when they want to emphasize the tinyness or insignificance of whatever they're talking about ("I'm really full, but that cake looks *so* good -- I'll have an eentsy piece."); or sarcastically, when the subject is neither small nor insignificant ("Oh, I had an eentsy-weentsy bit of trouble on the drive over -- the engine blew up.") > Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes > that are a kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have > collected only a few, like "Row, row, row your boat", "If you are > happy and you know it...", "Old McDonald", "Twinkle, twinkle, little > star", and "The Eentsy Weentsy spider". "Simple Simon", "Little Bo-peep", "Little Boy Blue", and, if he like finger-play rhymes, "Here Is the Church", "This Little Piggie" and "I'm a Little Teapot" >"Eentsy weentsy" means "very small". It's nonsense, but it's nonsense that >makes sense, in an odd way. "Eentsy" is babytalk for "small"; "weentsy" is >babytalk for "even smaller". I wonder what it is about babies that make so many use the same words. > So, something that's eentsy-weentsy is very >small indeed. Even though all three would be classified as babytalk, adults [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >insignificant ("Oh, I had an eentsy-weentsy bit of trouble on the drive >over -- the engine blew up.") If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) >> "Eentsy weentsy" means "very small". It's nonsense, but it's nonsense >> that makes sense, in an odd way. "Eentsy" is babytalk for "small"; [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > If you are inclined to email me > for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) Thanks mm. I wonder why I cannot see Barbara's original post in my news reader, and it fortunately appears as a quotation in yours. She provided a very profound analysis of the term, which is always invaluable for a non-native speaker. Now I know exactly what I am singing about. Thank you both! Regards, SignatureRicardo >>> "Eentsy weentsy" means "very small". It's nonsense, but it's >>> nonsense [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > invaluable for a non-native speaker. Now I know exactly what I am > singing about. Thank you You do realize that she didn't make any allowances for regions, don't you? >>> "Eentsy weentsy" means "very small". It's nonsense, but it's nonsense >>> that makes sense, in an odd way. "Eentsy" is babytalk for "small"; >>> "weentsy" is babytalk for "even smaller". >> I wonder what it is about babies that make so many use the same words. I should have written "makes so many". I typed as I thought, and in my head I said "makeso many". When typing, I didn't notice that makes and so each required an s. >>> So, something that's eentsy-weentsy is very >>> small indeed. Even though all three would be classified as babytalk, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Thanks mm. I wonder why I cannot see Barbara's original post in my news No basic news service receives all posts, so no person using a typical news service receives all posts. For me, it seems to have gotten better than it used to be. At least one non-isp run news server combines several news feeds, precisely because of this problem. It gets an enormous number of duplicates, and they discard all but one of them, but sometimes they get posts that were not retrieved by the first news feed. >reader, and it fortunately appears as a quotation in yours. She provided a >very profound analysis of the term, which is always invaluable for a >non-native speaker. Now I know exactly what I am singing about. Thank you >both! >Regards, If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) >At least one non-isp run news server combines several news feeds, Nearly all do so. That has been the standard mode of Usenet propagation since the Internet and NNTP became the dominant transmission medium (rather than UUCP). -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >>At least one non-isp run news server combines several news feeds, > >Nearly all do so. That has been the standard mode of Usenet >propagation since the Internet and NNTP became the dominant >transmission medium (rather than UUCP). Well, I used to miss quite a lot of posts because my ISP never got them. >-GAWollman If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) Well, I used to miss quite a lot of posts because my ISP never got them. I should have said that the ISP started using a subcontractor for its newsgroups. I'm not sure if that is when the service improved or if it was another time. If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) >>"Eentsy weentsy" means "very small". It's nonsense, but it's nonsense >>that [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I wonder what it is about babies that make so many use the same words. I think they are all born knowing an ickle bit of olde English, but the mothers have a hearing defect, and that varies by region. >> So, something that's eentsy-weentsy is very >>small indeed. Even though all three would be classified as babytalk, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If you are inclined to email me > for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) >> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk >> to him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> supposed to induce some meaningful associations, potentially >> characterizing the little creature... > "Eentsy weentsy" means "very small". It's nonsense, but it's > nonsense that makes sense, in an odd way. "Eentsy" is babytalk for > "small"; "weentsy" is babytalk for "even smaller". So, something > that's eentsy-weentsy is very small indeed. [...] I don't think anyone has said anything about where this baby-talk come from. "Eensy-weensy" and the others look to me like variants of "eeny-weeny", an aphetic form of "teeny-weeny", itself probably a thinned and babied-up* form of "tiny wee". "Itsy-bitsy" and the rest are the result of similar transformations worked on "little bit". Just guessing, but I'd bet a zwieback or two on it. *Rhythmical and tonally extravagant, with verbal music and amusing gestures and grimaces. Anything to keep the audience interested. [...] >>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk >>> to him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > *Rhythmical and tonally extravagant, with verbal music and amusing > gestures and grimaces. Anything to keep the audience interested. It was an itsy-bitsy, teeny-weeny, yellow polka-dot spider That bit him on the finger today. Or something like that. >>>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk >>>> to him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Or something like that. Oh dear, I wish I hadn't read that. Still, it may get rid of Waterloo which has stuck in my head since seeing "Mamma Mia" at the weekend (a very jolly film but dire if you suffer from STS). SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>>> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk >>>>> to him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >which has stuck in my head since seeing "Mamma Mia" at the weekend (a >very jolly film but dire if you suffer from STS). "Winchester Cathedral" was the worst of all of them, for me. It stuck in my brain for almost a year. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland > Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a kind of > must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a few, like here are a bunch: http://www.zelo.com/family/nursery/ >> Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a >> kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a >> few, like > here are a bunch: > http://www.zelo.com/family/nursery/ Thanls for the cool link! It's a pitty though that they do not provide the melody for these rhymes. Regards, SignatureRicardo >>> Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a >>> kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Thanls for the cool link! It's a pitty though that they do not provide the >melody for these rhymes. Only some of the nursery rhymes have tunes. The others are just spoken. The OED says: nursery rhyme n. a simple or traditional poem or song for children. Extracts of some nursery rhymes being sung are available as ringtones for mobile (cell) phones. One collection sung by British singers can be heard here: http://www.ringtones-direct.com/true-tones/nursery-rhymes/ and another at: http://ringtones.mobilefun.co.uk/mp3-ringtones/nursery-rhymes/ also there are a few, with Australian accents, at: http://www.tonesuniverse.com/australia/content.php?cat=realtones&subcat=128 SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a >>>> kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > http://www.tonesuniverse.com/australia/content.php?cat=realtones&subcat=12 > 8 Cool! Bookmarked the links. Thanks a lot for your clarification, Peter. Regards, SignatureRicardo >On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:06:26 +0200, "Ricardo" <kill@spam.edu> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >also there are a few, with Australian accents, at: >http://www.tonesuniverse.com/australia/content.php?cat=realtones&subcat=128 I thoroughly recommend the recordings by Vera Lynn and Kenneth McKellar which are clearly pronounced and well sung. <http://www.zavvi.co.uk/music-Childrens-Nursery+Rhymes-Vera-Lynn-Kenneth- McKellar-The-Wonderful-World-Of-Nursery-Rhymes/724986/ccc.r10.1/p.jsf> or <http://tinyurl.com/5q7bcp> It seems that 54 samples are available at that site, and these may be long enough to give you the tunes. It may require you to leave the site and return to hear more than a handful. SignaturePaul >>On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:06:26 +0200, "Ricardo" <kill@spam.edu> >>wrote: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >long enough to give you the tunes. It may require you to leave the site >and return to hear more than a handful. When I searched for nursery tunes I half expected to find a site or two with audio files available for free download. Instead I found offerings of CDs for sale. There are downloads available at Napster, but that requires free trial registration and Napster software on the PC. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>> Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a >>> kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Thanls for the cool link! It's a pitty though that they do not provide the >melody for these rhymes. If you want that, go to: http://www.ilovewavs.com/ForKids/Nursery/KidsNurseryRhymes.htm Eency Weency Spider, and many other common nursery rhymes, are sung. If you want to hear nursery rhymes recited, see: http://www.eaglesweb.com/Mother_Goose.htm SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a >>>> kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > If you want to hear nursery rhymes recited, see: > http://www.eaglesweb.com/Mother_Goose.htm Thanks again Tony. Have bookmarked both links. Cool. Regards, SignatureRicardo > I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to > him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we both [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > spider". > Regards, I'd try Woody Guthrie's collection of Nursery rhymes. I think other artists may have similar collections. They're more literate; besides the child learns melody, rhythm, etc. Sweet Honey from the Rock (a Gospel group but with secular, often ethnomusical, songs) is another choice. One album is specifically for children. Try also Mozart's variations on Twinkle, twinkle," which he knew in the French version of the lyric. And then there's Mahler's notorious funereal setting of Freres Jacques. Inicidentally, there was a comic version of that song decades ago; it became an album hit in the form of a sung telephone conversation: "Brother Jackie, brother Jackie, How's by you, how's by you? How's your sister Nancy, She's go fine and fancy. . . ." I made up these lyrics off the top of my head and I doubt they match the original comic lyric, set to the French song (like I said), Frere Jacques. But it give you an idea of the comdedy. I'm sure Wiki has an entry of the song and will probably mention this comic setting. >> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >> him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we both [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > group but with secular, often ethnomusical, songs) is another choice. > One album is specifically for children. That's "Sweet Honey in the Rock". SignatureDavid >> I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to him, >> play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we both enjoy [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > But it give you an idea of the comdedy. I'm sure Wiki has an entry of the > song and will probably mention this comic setting. Thanks Angelgloww. I'll give it a shot. Regards, SignatureRicardo > [...] And then there's Mahler's notorious > funereal setting of Freres Jacques. Inicidentally, there was a comic [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Jacques. But it give you an idea of the comdedy. I'm sure Wiki has an > entry of the song and will probably mention this comic setting. Here's the Alan Sherman version: Song Lyrics: Sarah Jackman (Parody of "Frere Jacques") Hello? Is this 418-9749? Speaking. Sarah? Yeah. Sarah Jackman, Sarah Jackman, How's by you? How's by you? How's by you the family? How's your sister Emily? She's nice too. She's nice too. Jerry Bachman, Jerry Bachman, So what's new? So what's new? Whatcha doing Sarah? Reading John O'Hara. He's nice too. He's nice too. Sarah Jackman, Sarah Jackman, How's by you? How's by you? How's your brother Bernie? He's a big attorney. How's your sister Doris? Still with William Morris. How's your cousin Shirley? She got married early. How's her daughter Esther? Skipped a whole semester. How's your brother Bentley? Feeling better ment'ly. How's your cousin Ida? She's a freedom rider. What's with Uncle Sidney? They took out a kidney. How's your sister Norma? She's a non-conforma. How's yours cousin Lena? Moved to Pasadena. How's your Uncle Nathan? Him I got no faith in. I ain't heard from Sonja. I'll get her to phone ya. How's her daughter Rita? A regular Lolita. How's your cousin Manny? Signed up with Vic Tanny. How's your nephew Seymour? Seymour joined the Peace Corps. He's nice too. He's nice too. Sarah Jackman, Sarah Jackman, How's by you? Jerry Bachman, How's by you? Jerry Bachman, Give regards to Hi now. So what's new? Gotta say goodbye now. So what's new? Toodle-oo. Give regards to Moe now. Toodle-oo. Well I gotta go now. Toodle-oo. Toodle-oo. Toodle-oo. Toodle-oo. Toodle-oo. Toodle-oo. SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/ >> [...] And then there's Mahler's notorious >> funereal setting of Freres Jacques. Inicidentally, there was a comic [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Toodle-oo. Toodle-oo. Toodle-oo. > Toodle-oo. Toodle-oo. Toodle-oo. Thanks for the lyric. Interesting to "hear" it again after so many years. I knew they'd be on the Net (what isn't?). On Aug 16, 11:42 pm, angelgloww20...@yahoo.com wrote: > > I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to > > him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we both [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I knew that had to be Allan Sherman! But those aren't his words at all, except for the second line. Or even title. "Sarah Jackman." http://www.themadmusicarchive.com/song_details.aspx?SongID=56 Most of what I grew up calling nursery rhymes are recited rather than sung. If they were sung, they were songs. A few of them have gestures or finger-work with them, like "Itsy bitsy spider" (song) and the little pigs one (rhyme -- although it doesn't). I don't consider "Row, row, row your boat" nursery; I learned it when I was eight or nine and adults thought it was fun to give us ear-worms -- the song is a round, which means it has no ending. >I am trying to expose my 13-month toddler to some English. I talk to >him, play English nursery rhymes to him, etc and it looks like we both [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Eentsy Weentsy spider". > Regards, Some rhymes are just rhythmic chants, while others have music. "This Old Man" (Knick knack paddy whack) has music. "One, two, buckle my shoe" does not (to my recollection). "The Alphabet Song" can be chanted or sung (can be googled for various music. Midi is still probably the best way to learn a tune from the internet. If your "little guy" is to grow up and be macho, you don't want him to know things like "Rockabye, Baby". But the Brahms "Lullaby" might be an important beginning to his musical education. ("Lullaby, and good night, mid roses bedight") Actually, my neighbor's little girl reminded me of that one just this morning, as she sang to her dolly. Oh, we sang versions of the "Schnitzelbunk", too. >Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a kind of >must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a few, like >"Row, row, row your boat", "If you are happy and you know it...", "Old >McDonald", "Twinkle, twinkle, little star", and "The Eentsy Weentsy spider". >Regards, All I remember right now are two somewhat more difficult ones, and only parts of them. 1) And they thwam and they thwam all over the dam. I don't know the rest. 2) Maresy doats and doesy doat and little lambsie divey. I think you're little kid will be too young to appreciate the double meanings of this one. If you are inclined to email me for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-) >>Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a >>kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I think you're little kid will be too young to appreciate the double > meanings of this one. Mairsy doats and dozy doats, And liddle lamsie divey. A kiddley divey, too, Wooden shoe? Three little fishies: Down in a meadow in an itty bitty pool Swam three little fishies and the mamma fishie, too Swim said the momma fishie, swim if you can And they swam and they swam all over the dam Chorus: Boop, boop diddum daddum waddum chew! And they swam and they swam all over the dam <http://www.songsforteaching.com/daria/threelittlefishies.htm> >> Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are >> a kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I think you're little kid will be too young to appreciate the double > meanings of this one. Cement mixer, putt-y putt-y ... -Same category as above: radio-played novelty songs. Alexander is a swoose ... -Radio commercial for a market. Pepsi Cola, hits the spot Twelve full ounces, that's a lot. Lots of flavor for your nickel, too Pepsi Cola is the drink for you (Nickel nickel trickel trickel) Pepsi Cola is the drink for you. -Radio commercial for a dark soda. Whistle while you work Hitler is a jerk Mussolini is a weenie Tojo's ten times worse. -Chanted/sung by Los Angeles, California, USA second-graders during WWII. There was a young lady from Ryde From eating green apples she died The apples fermented Inside the lamented Now there's cider inside her inside. -My Mom's favorite limerick. Although well-embedded in memory, they don't fit the "Nursery rhymes" template (templet?) either. SignatureFrank ess >Cement mixer, putt-y putt-y ... >-Same category as above: radio-played novelty songs. [...] >Although well-embedded in memory, they don't fit the "Nursery rhymes" >template (templet?) either. That's sort of like "Fish Heads" is for me, then... Fish heads, fish heads, roly-poly fish heads, Fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum! I took a fish head out to see a movie, Didn't have to pay to get it in. (refrain) There were several more verses that I used to remember and can't any more. I miss Dr. Demento.[1] -GAWollman [1] And yes, I know that there are ways I can hear the show now. It's just not the same when you're not fifteen any more. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness > There were several more verses that I used to remember http://www.asklyrics.com/display/Barnes_And_Barnes/Fish_Heads_Lyrics Most importantly: Roly-poly fish heads are never seen drinking cappuccino in Italian restaurants with Oriental women. Yeah. The duo behind this included, pseudonymously, Billy Mumy of Twilight Zone and Lost In Space fame. ¬R >> There were several more verses that I used to remember > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >The duo behind this included, pseudonymously, Billy Mumy of Twilight >Zone and Lost In Space fame. And, of course, Babylon 5, as Lenier. Signatureroses are #FF0000 violets are #0000FF all my base are belong to you > >> There were several more verses that I used to remember > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > And, of course, Babylon 5, as Lenier. This is why I don't mark every single post read after a week's holiday! I have just learnt that one of my favourite songs is by one of my favourite actors. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>> There were several more verses that I used to remember >> http://www.asklyrics.com/display/Barnes_And_Barnes/Fish_Heads_Lyrics [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And, of course, Babylon 5, as Lenier. Lennier, innit. SignatureDavid >>>> There were several more verses that I used to remember >>> http://www.asklyrics.com/display/Barnes_And_Barnes/Fish_Heads_Lyrics [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Lennier, innit. Probably. I wrote from memory, which is not what it used to be. Signatureroses are #FF0000 violets are #0000FF all my base are belong to you > All I remember right now are two somewhat more difficult ones, and > only parts of them. > > 1) And they thwam and they thwam all over the dam. http://www.amandashome.com/fishies.html Three Little Fishies Down in a meadow In an itty bitty pool Swam three little fishies And a mommy fishie too Swim said the momma fishie, Swim if you can So they swam and they swam Right over the damn Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo And they swam and they swam Right over the damn. Stop cried the mommy fish Or you will get lost But the three little fishies Didn't wanna be bossed The three little fishies Went off on a spree And they swam and they swam Right out to the sea Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo And they swam and they swam Right out to the sea Wee squealed the fishies We're havin some fun We'll swim in the sea Till the day is done They swam and they swam Until it was dark When all of a sudden They saw shark Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo Till all of a sudden They saw a shark Help cried the fishies Look at the whale And quick as they could They turned on their tail And back to the itty bitty pool they swam And they swam and they swam Back over the damn Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo Boop Boop diddum daddum waddum choo And they swam and they swam Back over the damn > 2) Maresy doats and doesy doat and little lambsie divey. Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you? Mares eat oats, And does eat oats, And little lambs eat ivy. A kid’ll eat ivy, too, Wouldn’t you? In article <cc415fc0-9831-40f7-a98c- 1222eb1286cc@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com>, njgillmom@gmail.com says... > > All I remember right now are two somewhat more difficult ones, and > > only parts of them. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://www.amandashome.com/fishies.html > Three Little Fishies http://www.frankiehowerd.com/AUDIO/3%20fish/Frankie%2080%27s.mp3 Can't find it on Youtube, sadly, because it makes me weep with laughter. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a >> kind of must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I don't know the rest. Barbara has given the standard words the "Three little fishies". Strangely to me, the number has nothing to do with the actions or story, unlike the three pigs or three bears. The "thwam" (I always heard it as "fwam") version was performed, I believe, by the inimitable Spike Jones & Co. He was the artist famous for crediting Colt and Smith & Wesson for some of his musical instruments. > 2) Maresy doats and doesy doat and little lambsie divey. > > I think you're little kid will be too young to appreciate the double > meanings of this one. (ObAUE: "your little kid") I give this as a frequent offender myself in the matter of there/their. >>Can you also recommend some more American nursery rhymes that are a kind of >>must for every little guy. Up to date I have collected only a few, like [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >I don't know the rest. That's "Three Little Fishes". "Sung by Kay Kyser (#1 in 1939) Words and music by Saxie Dowell Down in the meadow in a little bitty pool Swam three little fishies and a mama fishie too "Swim" said the mama fishie, "Swim if you can" And they swam and they swam all over the dam Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! And they swam and they swam all over the dam "Stop" said the mama fishie, "or you will get lost" The three little fishies didn't wanna be bossed The three little fishies went off on a spree And they swam and they swam right out to the sea Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! And they swam and they swam right out to the sea "Whee!" yelled the little fishies, "Here's a lot of fun We'll swim in the sea till the day is done" They swam and they swam, and it was a lark Till all of a sudden they saw a shark! Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! Till all of a sudden they saw a shark! "Help!" cried the little fishies, "Gee! look at all the whales!" And quick as they could, they turned on their tails And back to the pool in the meadow they swam And they swam and they swam back over the dam Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! Boop boop dit-tem dat-tem what-tem Chu! And they swam and they swam back over the dam." It was done in the UK WIWAL in the 1940s by Frankie Howerd. He made several versions. http://www.frankiehowerd.com/media-downloads-3fish.htm SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England Robin Bignall filted: >That's "Three Little Fishes". > >"Sung by Kay Kyser (#1 in 1939) From what I've been able to find, Kay himself did very little singing...the canonical recording of this song features alternating vocals by Ginny Simms, Harry Babbitt, and cornetist Merwyn "Ish Kabibble" Bogue....r SignatureEvelyn Wood just looks at the pictures. >Robin Bignall filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >canonical recording of this song features alternating vocals by Ginny Simms, >Harry Babbitt, and cornetist Merwyn "Ish Kabibble" Bogue....r The first MP3 on that Frankie Howerd website (shellac from the 1940s) doesn't seem to work. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England |
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