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Discussion Groups / English Usage / August 2008What does this mean - rooting for the underdog
Hi, I saw a story on Newsweek and here is a sentence I do not quite understand: Her father, a strong believer in the work ethic and rooting for the underdog, said, "Suck it up and get back in there." What I do not understand is "rooting for the underdog", what does it mean? I believe I understand the overall meaning, her father believes no matter how difficult job anyone is dealing with, the job must be done. In case you need larger context, here is the paragraph: Rhee was unable to stop the kids, or control them in the classroom for most of her first year. At Christmas, she went home scratching at huge welts on her arm. A doctor diagnosed stress. Her mother said, "You can apply for law school second semester." Her father, a strong believer in the work ethic and rooting for the underdog, said, "Suck it up and get back in there." Thanks. On 27 Aug 2008, wrote > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What I do not understand is "rooting for the underdog", what > does it mean? Cheering for the person who is expected to lose a contest.  SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 27 Aug 2008, wrote > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Cheering for the person who is expected to lose a contest. It most probably comes from dog-fighting. A subservient dog assumes a supine position, belly up, while the dominant dog stands over it. Several common expressions derive from former spectator sports now considered abhorrent. My favorite is the Spanish equivalent of "all bark and no bite", "buch y plumas", literally "crop and feathers", obviously from a cockfighting. origin. After serious thinking pritsy wrote : >> On 27 Aug 2008, wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > "buch y plumas", literally "crop and feathers", obviously from a > cockfighting. origin. Dogs don't have to fight for them to determine their rank in a pack. In fact, it is most often done through aggressive play. No, dog-fighting is and has always been a disgusting sport, and attributing something so common and acceptable to it is to give it tacit approval or some sort of legitimacy. > After serious thinking pritsy wrote : >>> On 27 Aug 2008, wrote [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > common and acceptable to it is to give it tacit approval or some sort of > legitimacy. I certainly did not intend my response to be a defense of dog-fighting! However, it is unrealistic to deny that it was very widespread thoughout the world and was very common in England. Unfortunately, my copy of the OED is not available, but perhaps someone else can verify whether my guess was correct or not.. To quote from the wikipedia entry on dogfighting: "Blood sports involving the baiting of animals has occurred since antiquity, most famously at the Colosseum in Rome during the reign of the Roman Empire. However, in contemporary times, it is most associated with the English, who pursued it with utmost earnestness, which was barely known elsewhere in the world. For over six hundred years the pastime flourished, reaching the peak of its popularity during the sixteenth century. The various animal types involved in the bait allowed for the breed specialization and basic anatomical forms of fighting dogs, which we see today. Dog fighting has been popular in many countries throughout history and continues to be practiced both legally and illegally around the world." " >> [ ... ] >> It most probably comes from dog-fighting. A subservient dog assumes a >>> supine position, belly up, while the dominant dog stands over it. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> > I certainly did not intend my response to be a defense of dog-fighting! Only the sort of person who thinks that "niggardly" is a racial slur would think you were! I certainly didn't read it that way. > However, it is unrealistic to deny that it was very widespread thoughout > the world and was very common in England. > Unfortunately, my copy of the OED is not available, but perhaps someone > else can verify whether my guess was correct or not.. I don't have an OED but my SOED suggests that you are perfectly correct. Signatureathel >>> [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >I don't have an OED but my SOED suggests that you are perfectly correct. OED: underdog orig. U.S. [UNDER-1 5b; cf. top-dog s.v. TOP n.1 34.] The beaten dog in a fight; fig. the party overcome or worsted in a contest; one who is in a state of inferiority or subjection. 1887 Daily Tel. 30 Apr. 3/3 There is an indefinable expression in his face and figure of having been vanquished, of having succumbed, of having been ‘under-dog’ as the saying is. 1892 Daily Chron. 23 June 5/2 The mission of the Democratic party is to fight for the under-dog. Hence {sm}underdogger, one who supports the underdog in a contest; under{sm}doggery. A quote chosen for fun: 1977 Time 3 Oct. 54 After three crushing defeats, Australia's loyal underdoggers were busy recalling all the old familiar whiny excuses. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> [ ... ] >> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > Australia's loyal underdoggers were busy recalling all the > old familiar whiny excuses. Thank you! And to Athel Cornish-Bowden as well. >> On 27 Aug 2008, wrote >>> What I do not understand is "rooting for the underdog", what [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> > It most probably comes from dog-fighting. Interestingly, according to the OED, it was the dog who *lost* the contest, not one expected to lose. I guess that the modern sense comes from the notion of a perennial loser: one that is expected to have a tough time winning because he has tended to lose in the past. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If a bus station is where a bus 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |stops, and a train station is where Palo Alto, CA 94304 |a train stops, what does that say |about a workstation? kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > On 27 Aug 2008, wrote > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Cheering for the person who is expected to lose a contest. Yes, that's what it usually means. I don't see what the father's belief in that has to do with the daughter's predicament, though. "Rooting for the underdog" is different from encouraging her to show strength of character and fortitude. Seems to me the reporter made an inappropriate choice. SignatureFrank ess "All of philosophy consists of unlocking, exhuming, and recanting what's been said before, and then getting riled up about it." —V.S. Ramachandran— > > On 27 Aug 2008, wrote > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > strength of character and fortitude. Seems to me the reporter made an > inappropriate choice. The underdog wins by superior fortitude and effort, never giving up, and all that good stuff. So get back in there and fight fight fight. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What I do not understand is "rooting for the underdog", what does it > mean? It means to root for David against Goliath > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What I do not understand is "rooting for the underdog", what does it > mean? An "underdog" is someone, or a team, that is expected to lose a contest. To "root" is to be a partisan in favor of someone, or a team. Thus, "to root for the underdog" is to hope and cheer for the person or team that is expected to lose. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Thus, "to root for the underdog" is to hope and cheer for the person or >team that is expected to lose. While I basically agree with this, I stop short at the "expected to lose". There's not much expectation that an underdog can win, but it's not foregone that they will lose. The underdog is the one that is not expected to win. That's a bit different than expected to lose. We hold out hope for the ones not expected to win, but we've given up hope for the ones expected to lose. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> Hi, >>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >it's not foregone that they will lose. The underdog is the one that >is not expected to win. That's a bit different than expected to lose. ObAUE: I'd expect to see "a foregone conclusion", as opposed to a lonely "foregone". >We hold out hope for the ones not expected to win, but we've given up >hope for the ones expected to lose. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland |
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