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Discussion Groups / English Usage / September 2008Sarah Palin: Schadenfreude or Fremdschämen?
You know what schadenfreude is? Now it's time for a new German word: Fremdschämen! Imagine you see someone in a really embarrassing situation in public, think Sarah Palin's interviews with Gibson or Couric. If you gloat over her embarrassment, it's Schadenfreude. Now, if you cringe and are embarrassed on her behalf, that's Fremdschämen. If Schadenfreude and Fahrvergnügen became known in English, maybe Fremdschämen can make it too! Markus > You know what schadenfreude is? Now it's time for a new German word: > Fremdschämen! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Markus OT: If I can mention another useful German word where English is somewhat inadequate: I like verschlimbesserung, which is closely similar to what is generally known to auers as Skitt's law -- the latter postulates the inevitability of error being made in correcting someone elses error, whille the former is a word referring to such an eventuality without the inevitability aspect. -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diegoi > > You know what schadenfreude is? Now it's time for a new German word: > > Fremdschämen! [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > whille the former is a word referring to such an eventuality without > the inevitability aspect. I thought a Verschlimbesserung was a supposed improvement that made things worse, without having to be a correction of anyone's error. -- Jerry Friedman [useful borrowings] > I thought a Verschlimbesserung was a supposed improvement that made > things worse, without having to be a correction of anyone's error. Eating your own leg while it's still warm, like. >> You know what schadenfreude is? Now it's time for a new German word: >> Fremdschämen! [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > generally known to auers as Skitt's law -- the latter postulates the > inevitability of error being made in correcting someone elses error, It's stronger than that: it says that when you correct someone else's error you will make _exactly the same sort_ of error in your posting. Criticitizing someones speling and use of apostrophes, for example. > whille the former is a word referring to such an eventuality without > the inevitability aspect. Veering off-topic, I'm surprising that Schadenfreude is often claimed to have no corresponding word in English: what about "glee"? OK, I know it _can_ be used in positive way, but in practice it nearly always means Schadenfreude.  Signatureathel >>> You know what schadenfreude is? Now it's time for a new German word: >>> Fremdschämen! [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >it _can_ be used in positive way, but in practice it nearly always >means Schadenfreude. It rather depends on the context whether "glee" is to be understood negatively or positively. Here are the first three "glee" results returned by Google which are not musical, acronymic or other irrelevant uses of GLEE: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7573482.stm Jamaican glee at Bolt victory There was near pandemonium in Jamaica as people gathered to egg on, and then celebrate, Usain Bolt's dramatic 200m win at the Olympics. http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/57343/Ton-up-Leigh-glee- TON-UP LEIGH GLEE CENTURION Leigh Adams was the toast of the track – after blowing the world title medal race wide open. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2144230/Kate-Middleton%27s-glee-as-Prince-Willia m-becomes-a-Knight-of-the-Garter.html Kate Middleton's glee as Prince William becomes a Knight of the Garter Kate Middleton was all smiles as she watched her boyfriend, Prince William, installed as a Royal Knight of the Garter. Only after that do we find a negative use (result number 36). http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/11/chile.pinochet Glee and grief as man who 'brought Spanish inquisition to Chile' dies at 91 General Augusto Pinochet, the Chilean former dictator whose brutal regime cast a shadow over his country and the rest of the continent for more than three decades, died yesterday at the age of 91. Obviously these examples tell us nothing about the relative frequency of the positive and negative uses. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > tinwhistler said: [...] > > OT: If I can mention another useful German word where > > English is somewhat inadequate: > > I like verschlimbesserung, [...] Verschlimmbesserung. From "schlimm." Ver + SCHLIMM + besser + ung. > Veering off-topic, I'm surprising that Schadenfreude is often claimed > to have no corresponding word in English: what about "glee"? OK, I know > it _can_ be used in positive way, but in practice it nearly always > means Schadenfreude. Really? To me, that is "gloat," not "glee." glee = almost always positive (joyful). gloat = always negative (malicious). Signature~~~ Reinhold [Rey] Aman ~~~ On Sep 28, 12:22 pm, "Reinhold [Rey] Aman" <a...@sonic.net> wrote: > Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote: > > tinwhistler said: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Verschlimmbesserung. From "schlimm." > Ver + SCHLIMM + besser + ung. [snip] ...mm ..OK. Is there a German word for making a mistake when talking about words having to do with correcting mistakes? -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego |
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