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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009Compassionate Spelling
Another sign I came across: http://tonycooper.fileave.com/compassion.jpg I'm titling it "Pee Off".  SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >Another sign I came across: >http://tonycooper.fileave.com/compassion.jpg Contact details at: http://heavenlyminded.org/index_files/Page500.htm Of course it might have been corrected by now. >I'm titling it "Pee Off". Seems apt. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>Another sign I came across: >>http://tonycooper.fileave.com/compassion.jpg [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Of course it might have been corrected by now. I took the photograph earlier this afternoon. The sign has two sides, and the word is spelled correctly on the other side. They just ran out of pee. >>I'm titling it "Pee Off". > >Seems apt. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >Another sign I came across: >http://tonycooper.fileave.com/compassion.jpg > >I'm titling it "Pee Off". Amazing. You want to be careful with tittling, by the way. Small as they are, jots and tittles can be both misread and misconstrued. SignaturePaul >Another sign I came across: >http://tonycooper.fileave.com/compassion.jpg > >I'm titling it "Pee Off". I found the website of that church and have questions -- grammatical, not theological. What we Believe: http://heavenlyminded.org/index_files/Page503.htm Are the following unexceptional AmE?: 1. Who Is Grace Baptist Church 2. ...group of people who cares for the... In BrE these are more likely to be: 1. What Is Grace Baptist Church perhaps Who are Grace Baptist Church or more likely (with the name of the church already established) Who Are We or Who We Are 2. ...group of people which cares for the... or ...group of people who care for the... SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>Another sign I came across: >>http://tonycooper.fileave.com/compassion.jpg [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >or > ...group of people who care for the... This is a small, rural Southern Baptist church. While the address is Eustis, it is actually some miles out of Eustis. The grammar is unexceptional for the type of people who would be involved in this particular church. Their motto, according to Pastor Doug (the "Pastor's Welcome" link) is Growing, Relating, And Caring, for Everyone. Pastor Doug is short a p, but had an extra comma. When I stopped to take that picture, I first read the pastor's name as "Drug Tester", by the way. Photography is a hobby of mine, and I was out looking for things to photograph. As I often do. On these jaunts, I also look for signs that interest me in some way. I've posted several of these in the past. I found this one last week: http://tonycooper.fileave.com/pipearea.jpg I can explain what it means if you don't get it. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony cooper wrote, in part: > Photography is a hobby of mine, and I was out looking for things to > photograph. As I often do. On these jaunts, I also look for signs [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > http://tonycooper.fileave.com/pipearea.jpg I can explain what it > means if you don't get it. Don't make loud bubbles in your bongs? SignatureSkitt (AmE) [...] >Photography is a hobby of mine, and I was out looking for things to >photograph. As I often do. On these jaunts, I also look for signs >that interest me in some way. I've posted several of these in the >past. How about this one? http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/images/world_record.html > I found this one last week: > http://tonycooper.fileave.com/pipearea.jpg I can explain > what it means if you don't get it. Lemme guess: No loud exhaust pipes? SignatureBob Cunningham, Southern California, USA. Western American English Bob Cunningham filted: >How about this one? >http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/images/world_record.html Perhaps in the San Joaquin valley, "strawberry" is a mass noun....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >Bob Cunningham filted: >> >>How about this one? >>http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/images/world_record.html > >Perhaps in the San Joaquin valley, "strawberry" is a mass noun....r Yeah, anything's possible. SignatureBob Cunningham, Southern California, USA. Western American English >> Bob Cunningham filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Yeah, anything's possible. Actually, I have gathered the impression that among British greengrocer's, the name's of fruits' and vegetable's often /are/ treated as mass noun. I don't claim certainty, but I do have the impression. SignatureMike. >>> Bob Cunningham filted: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >greengrocer's, the name's of fruits' and vegetable's often /are/ treated >as mass noun. I don't claim certainty, but I do have the impression. For seven or eight months a year, we go to a "farmer's market" nearby. A lot of the farmers come from the San Joaquin Valley. They print signs to put near each type of produce showing the price. I don't recall ever seeing any of them using "strawberry" as a mass noun. "Spinach", "lettuce", and "broccoli", but not "strawberry". I've never even seen any of them using the greengrocer's apostrophe properly, writing "strawberry's". It's always "strawberries". I have little doubt that the sign in the photo I referred to shows simply that someone still has useful stuff to learn about their adopted language. SignatureBob Cunningham, Southern California, USA. Western American English > "Spinach", "lettuce", and "broccoli", but not "strawberry". Aren't broccoli a plural in Italian? SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. >> "Spinach", "lettuce", and "broccoli", but not "strawberry". > >Aren't broccoli a plural in Italian? Yes, it is, but we're using English, not Italian, and in English "broccoli" is a singular mass noun. "Broccoli" could have a plural, "broccolis", in the same way that "wheat" can have a plural, "wheats": In Lower Slobovia three kinds of wheat (or broccoli) are grown, but none of them is the same as any of the wheats (or broccolis) that are grown in America. Once a foreign word has been naturalized in English, its use in the language it came from needn't have any bearing on how it can be properly used in English. "Broccoli" is an English word that has the same spelling as, but a different meaning than, the Italian word "broccoli". SignatureBob Cunningham, Southern California, USA. Western American English >>Aren't broccoli a plural in Italian? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > language it came from needn't have any bearing on how it can be > properly used in English. I need one more data for my experiment. > "Broccoli" is an English word that has the same spelling as, but a > different meaning than, the Italian word "broccoli". Thank you for this information. Henceforth I shall write either "1 broccolo" or "2 broccoli" on the shopping list, as required. SignatureIn Karhide king and kyorremy have a good deal of control over what people do, but very little over what they hear, and none over what they say. Here, the government can check not only act but thought. Surely no men should have such power over others. (LeGuin 1969) >>>Aren't broccoli a plural in Italian? >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >I need one more data for my experiment. >> "Broccoli" is an English word that has the same spelling as, but a >> different meaning than, the Italian word "broccoli". > >Thank you for this information. Henceforth I shall write either "1 >broccolo" or "2 broccoli" on the shopping list, as required. I realize A dam Funk thinks he's being funny, but for the benefit of any innocent readers who might be misled, let me state the following facts: Singular "data" is not a countable noun. Plural "data", the plural of "datum", is countable, but "one more data" is not good English. "One more datum" or "two more data" would be okay, but not "one more data". Using "data" as a singular, uncountable mass noun, "I need more data for my experiment" would be okay. (Come to think of it, that statement would also be okay for the "data" that's the plural of "datum".) With the exception of at least one trade name, at least one surname, and jocular uses, so far as I know there is no such English word as "broccolo". It gets "about 127,000" Google hits, but I would expect to find that none of them are serious uses with reference to the vegetable broccoli. The phrase "2 broccoli" is bad English, because in English "broccoli", like "spaghetti"*, is only the singular mass noun, not a countable plural. On the remote chance that A dam Funk is not kidding after all, I suggest that if he wants to discuss Italian words, he would probably find "alt.languages.italian" or "soc.culture.italian" more suitable forums. (Are the "fora" advocates loaded, aimed, and ready to fire?) * From the _New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_, in Italian "spaghetti" is "plural of diminutive of "spago", string". This has no important relevance to the English word "spaghetti". SignatureBob Cunningham, Southern California, USA. Western American English [...] >From the _New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary_, in Italian >"spaghetti" is "plural of diminutive of "spago", string". Make that: in Italian "spaghetti" is "plural of diminutive of 'spago', string". SignatureBob Cunningham, Southern California, USA. Western American English >>Thank you for this information. Henceforth I shall write either "1 >>broccolo" or "2 broccoli" on the shopping list, as required. > > I realize A dam Funk Gee, I haven't heard that one since eighth grade or so. > thinks he's being funny, A little but not very. > but for the benefit of any innocent readers who might be misled, let > me state the following facts: Fair point, since non-native speakers *might* have taken that post seriously. > The phrase "2 broccoli" is bad English, because in English > "broccoli", like "spaghetti"*, is only the singular mass > noun, not a countable plural. I've always heard (and used) it with a countable "extra word", such as in "two pieces of broccoli". > On the remote chance that A dam Funk is not kidding after all, I > suggest that if he wants to discuss Italian words, he would probably > find "alt.languages.italian" or "soc.culture.italian" more suitable > forums. (Are the "fora" advocates loaded, aimed, and ready to fire?) BLAM! BLAM! BLAM! SignatureTake it? I can't even parse it! [Kibo] >>>Aren't broccoli a plural in Italian? >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Thank you for this information. Henceforth I shall write either "1 >broccolo" or "2 broccoli" on the shopping list, as required. How about "monobroc" or "bibroc", for speed and to save space? SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >> "Spinach", "lettuce", and "broccoli", but not "strawberry". > >Aren't broccoli a plural in Italian? This is alt.usage.ENGLISH. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>> "Spinach", "lettuce", and "broccoli", but not "strawberry". >> >> Aren't broccoli a plural in Italian? > > This is alt.usage.ENGLISH. Jeez you guys. I try to make a little joke and you get all pedantic on me. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. >>>> "Spinach", "lettuce", and "broccoli", but not "strawberry". >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Jeez you guys. I try to make a little joke and you get all pedantic on >me. Sorry, John. I'm so used to jumping on Coop for one of his endless house repair stories, I may have become jumpy about all off-topic posts. He who is without sin and so forth, for I meander, myself. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >> "Spinach", "lettuce", and "broccoli", but not "strawberry". > > Aren't broccoli a plural in Italian? I just discovered in the archaeological news that it's a surname too. Umberto Broccoli, the recently named head of archaeology for Rome, is pushing ahead with a proposal to recreate gladiator battles in or near the Coliseum. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1871544,00.html SignatureTake it? I can't even parse it! [Kibo] On 15 Jan 2009, Adam Funk wrote >>> "Spinach", "lettuce", and "broccoli", but not "strawberry". >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1871544,00.html There's also the late Cubby Broccoli and his daughter Barbara, who were/are pretty well-known. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >>> "Spinach", "lettuce", and "broccoli", but not "strawberry". >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1871544,00.html I knew Broccoli as a name long before I ever tasted the vegetable. Albert R. Broccoli produced all the early Bond films. And at home we ate cabbage (if we were lucky). James >>> Bob Cunningham filted: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > treated as mass noun. I don't claim certainty, but I do have the > impression. We have picked on greengrocers so much that they have now utterly lost their collective nerve when it comes to forming plurals. I saw a sign advertising "PEACHS" the other day. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>>> Bob Cunningham filted: >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > their collective nerve when it comes to forming plurals. I saw a sign > advertising "PEACHS" the other day. They let in knobbly carrots, and standards go all to heck. Thank goodness bent bananas are still Class 2: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/world/europe/13food.html SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. > Bob Cunningham filted: >> >> How about this one? >> http://www.exw6sxq.com/sparky/images/world_record.html > > Perhaps in the San Joaquin valley, "strawberry" is a mass noun....r Now that you mention it... WIWAL in New Orleans in the 1940s, black men in horse or mule drawn wagons would occasionally pass through residential neighborhoods selling farm produce. They would sing their wares. "I got waaaa ter MEL on I got sraaaaw BERR y" I'm sure they had strawberry, not strawberries. If you asked, they would plug a watermelon to show the quality and ripeness. Illegal to do that nowadays. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. > WIWAL in New Orleans in the 1940s, black men in horse or mule drawn > wagons would occasionally pass through residential neighborhoods > selling farm produce. They would sing their wares. > > "I got waaaa ter MEL on > I got sraaaaw BERR y" Oh, now I have a song on the tip of my tongue. Some children's song that used similar lines, but I can't quite get it. SignatureSML >> WIWAL in New Orleans in the 1940s, black men in horse or mule drawn >> wagons would occasionally pass through residential neighborhoods [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Oh, now I have a song on the tip of my tongue. Some children's song that >used similar lines, but I can't quite get it. Probably not the same, but there's "Who'll Buy" from "Lost in the Stars". Now you've given me STS trying to think of the vegetables in the song. Rutabagas and yellow corn only come to mind. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony cooper filted: >>> WIWAL in New Orleans in the 1940s, black men in horse or mule drawn >>> wagons would occasionally pass through residential neighborhoods [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Stars". Now you've given me STS trying to think of the vegetables in >the song. Rutabagas and yellow corn only come to mind. I don't suppose any of you are familiar with "Apples Peaches and Cherries" [1] from the "straight" side of "The Two Sides of the Smothers Brothers"?...the title comes from the cry of a peddler....r [1] absence of punctuation exactly as it failed to appear on the back of the LP sleeve Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >> WIWAL in New Orleans in the 1940s, black men in horse or mule drawn >> wagons would occasionally pass through residential neighborhoods [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Oh, now I have a song on the tip of my tongue. Some children's song that >used similar lines, but I can't quite get it. Not "Life is butter melon cauliflower"? SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ John Varela wrote: WIWAL in New Orleans in the 1940s, black men in horse or mule drawn wagons would occasionally pass through residential neighborhoods selling farm produce. They would sing their wares. "I got waaaa ter MEL on I got sraaaaw BERR y" Oh, now I have a song on the tip of my tongue. Some children's song that used similar lines, but I can't quite get it. I've got RHY-thm. -- --------------------------------------------- Richard Maurer To reply, remove half Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (In the UK : Sated and fated after he sat for the SAT.) >[...] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Lemme guess: No loud exhaust pipes? Good guess, and the right answer. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> [...] >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Good guess, and the right answer. Yeah, but isn't loud exhaust illegal in all parts of Florida, not just where there is a quaint sign? Actually, I know it is restricted to 78 dBA where maximum allowable speed is 35 mph. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>> [...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >there is a quaint sign? Actually, I know it is restricted to 78 dBA where >maximum allowable speed is 35 mph. So maybe "Quiet pipe area" means "Yeah, we know there's a law, but around here you gotta be *really* quiet". SignatureBob Cunningham, Southern California, USA. Western American English > On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:29:37 -0800, "Skitt" <skit...@comcast.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > So maybe "Quiet pipe area" means "Yeah, we know there's a law, but > around here you gotta be *really* quiet". Or it's like the signs that show a curved arrow and say "SLOW 40" where the speed limit is 40. -- Jerry Friedman >>> [...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >there is a quaint sign? Actually, I know it is restricted to 78 dBA where >maximum allowable speed is 35 mph. The photograph was taken in Sanford, Florida. Sanford has ordinances that specify the maximum by both time and location. The sign reminds drivers that the area is residential and the max is either 55 or 60 dBA. It makes sense because the sign is visible to southbound drivers leaving the downtown area. While I have said "drivers", "riders" would be more appropriate since the noisy ones are the Harley riders. http://www.sanfordpolice.org/flyers/ord_3350.pdf SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> [...] >>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > http://www.sanfordpolice.org/flyers/ord_3350.pdf Sanford, eh? Well, alrighty, then. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>>>> [...] >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Sanford, eh? Well, alrighty, then. I forgot to mention that Sanford is the eternal resting place of my 1986.5 Toyota Supra. It appreciates the quiet, I'm sure. SignatureSkitt (in SF Bay Area) www.geocities.com/opus731/ Bob Cunningham set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: > On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:38:12 -0500, tony cooper > <tony_cooper213@earthlink.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Lemme guess: No loud exhaust pipes? Could be the US equivalent of some areas in the UK where heavy lorries (trucks) are sometimes parked overnight. If the parking place is close to a residental area, signs will often announce that parking of *refrigerated* lorries overnight is forbidden. This is, of course, because they have to have the engine running continuously, even while parked, to keep up the refrigeration, and the noise would annoy the local yokels. Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply |
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