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Discussion Groups / English Usage / November 2008Today's Doonesbury - 'an Sat test'
'It's not an SAT test' is what Boopsie's saying in the first panel of today's Doonesbury. 'An Sat'? We have SAT - Standard Attainment Tests - in the UK but the acronym is always pronounced 'sat' as in 'the cat ... on the mat'. Is it S-A-T leftpond? (Thinking about it, yes, it probably is, and I could have saved myself the bother of posting this. That's what happens when cartoonists do all their lettering in capitals...) DC -- > 'It's not an SAT test' is what Boopsie's saying in the first panel of > today's Doonesbury. Like a PIN number? > Derek Turner wrote >> 'It's not an SAT test' is what Boopsie's saying in the first panel of >> today's Doonesbury. > >Like a PIN number? Just so. Unless that's P-I-N thereabouts. DC -- > 'It's not an SAT test' is what Boopsie's saying in the first panel of today's > Doonesbury. > 'An Sat'? We have SAT - Standard Attainment Tests - in the UK but the acronym > is always pronounced 'sat' as in 'the cat ... on the mat'. Is it S-A-T > leftpond? I don't know what the young people call it, but in my day (approximately contemporary with Trudeau) it was pronounced letter by letter. It does seem odd, considering how fond of shortening things we are --- perhaps not so fonds as Brits, because we still use 'gotten.' In my day it stood for Scholastic Aptitude Test. Eventually the A became controversial because one had to know stuff, rather than merely have the aptitude to learn it, to do well. Perhaps the A stands for something else now. > (Thinking about it, yes, it probably is, and I could have saved myself the > bother of posting this. That's what happens when cartoonists do all their > lettering in capitals...)  SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com Ambition is the last refuge of the failure. --Oscar Wilde [re SAT] > In my day it stood for Scholastic Aptitude Test. Eventually the A became > controversial because one had to know stuff, rather than merely have the > aptitude to learn it, to do well. Perhaps the A stands for something else > now. The latest, cut and pasted from Wikipedia: "The SAT Reasoning Test (formerly Scholastic Aptitude Test and Scholastic Assessment Test) is a standardized test for college admissions in the United States." <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT>. This implies that calling it the "SAT [ess-eh-tee] Test" is not a simple redundancy. SignatureBob Lieblich Who took it in 1956 >'It's not an SAT test' is what Boopsie's saying in the first panel of today's >Doonesbury. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >bother of posting this. That's what happens when cartoonists do all their >lettering in capitals...) We don't say "sat". We say "ess ay tee". The other common test is the ACT, and we say "ay cee tee" and never "act". SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>'It's not an SAT test' is what Boopsie's saying in the first panel of >>today's [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > We don't say "sat". We say "ess ay tee". The other common test is > the ACT, and we say "ay cee tee" and never "act". But the LSAT is ell-sat, go figure?. Raymond O'Hara filted: >>>'It's not an SAT test' is what Boopsie's saying in the first panel of >>>today's [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >But the LSAT is ell-sat, go figure?. We took that concurrent with the NMSQT, pronounced "in a mess cutie"....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" > Raymond O'Hara filted: >>> We don't say "sat". We say "ess ay tee". The other common test is >>> the ACT, and we say "ay cee tee" and never "act". >> But the LSAT is ell-sat, go figure?. > > We took that concurrent with the NMSQT, pronounced "in a mess cutie"....r That would be strange, if true. When I took these, the SAT, PSAT, and NMSQT were separate tests. The LSAT came much later for those who took it, in the same time frame as the GRE which was the appropriate test for me. The PSAT (P for 'preliminary') counted for nothing unless you used it (as I did) with an application for early admission. Because it counted for little, many fewer people took it, so later the PSAT (not LSAT) was bundled with the NMSQT as a single test. > Martin Ambuhl wrote >>>>We don't say "sat". We say "ess ay tee". The other common test is >>>>the ACT, and we say "ay cee tee" and never "act". [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >early admission. Because it counted for little, many fewer people took it, >so later the PSAT (not LSAT) was bundled with the NMSQT as a single test. So (asking as someone who occasionally come on terms like GRE and GMAT professionally) are all these tests examples of SATs, or are the SATs a group of tests of their own? SATs have existed in the UK for maybe 10 - 15 years as a set of attainment tests done by children - I'm sure we'll have borrowed the terminology. DC -- >So (asking as someone who occasionally come on terms like GRE and GMAT >professionally) are all these tests examples of SATs, No. The SAT is a specific test, devised and administered by Educational Testing Service, on behalf of the College Board (formerly College Entrance Examination Board). -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >> Martin Ambuhl wrote > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>early admission. Because it counted for little, many fewer people took it, >>so later the PSAT (not LSAT) was bundled with the NMSQT as a single test. >So (asking as someone who occasionally come on terms like GRE and GMAT >professionally) are all these tests examples of SATs, or are the SATs a group >of tests of their own? The SAT is a test on its own. It is a general aptitude test of verbal and mathematical skills. There are also Advanced Placement tests in specific subjects such as Physics. The GRE is the Graduate Record Examination an is taken by university students who will apply to post-grduate schools. The SATs, APs, GREs, are all products of the Educational Testing Service. Hm. It's just confusing enough that I may getting it a little wrong: http://www.ets.org/ In my time I have taken the PSAT, SAT with two advanced subjects, GRE including the Physcis subject exam, and LSAT. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * > The GRE is the Graduate Record Examination an is taken by > university students who will apply to post-grduate schools. But of course you don't have to be a university student to take the GRE. I was in my forties, and out of university for 20 years when I took it. Fran >> The GRE is the Graduate Record Examination an is taken by >> university students who will apply to post-grduate schools. >> >But of course you don't have to be a university student to take the GRE. >I was in my forties, and out of university for 20 years when I took it. Of course. Unusual, but certainly not forbidden. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >>> The GRE is the Graduate Record Examination an is taken by >>> university students who will apply to post-grduate schools. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Of course. Unusual, but certainly not forbidden. Not all that unusual. Lots of people spend a few years in the real world before applying to grad school, so they aren't university students at the time they take the GRE. I, too, was one of them. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>> The GRE is the Graduate Record Examination an is taken by >>>> university students who will apply to post-grduate schools. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I, too, was one of them. Twenty years isn't "a few years". Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * >So (asking as someone who occasionally come on terms like GRE and GMAT >professionally) are all these tests examples of SATs, or are the SATs a group >of tests of their own? The SAT and ACT tests are taken by high school students. A student can take either or both. Most universities use the results of these tests to determine if the student is eligible for admission based on that university's admission requirements. A university may have an admission requirement of a minimum score of XX on the SAT or XX on the ACT. The score may not be the only requirement. There are universities that do not have an SAT or ACT requirement, and there are exceptions made at the universities that do. The typical high school student planning on attending a university will take one or both tests and have the results sent to up to three* universities of his/her choosing. The results can sent to any number of additional universities by the student. *That was the number when my son and daughter were in high school. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > A university may have an admission requirement of a minimum score of > XX on the SAT or XX on the ACT. The score may not be the only > requirement. The College Board strongly cautions universities against using minimum SAT scores as a cutoff, and would be positively apoplectic if someone suggested using an SAT score as the sole criterion for college admission. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >> A university may have an admission requirement of a minimum score of >> XX on the SAT or XX on the ACT. The score may not be the only >> requirement. > >The College Board strongly cautions universities against using minimum SAT >scores as a cutoff, A caution that does not seem to be observed. From the website of the University of Florida: http://www.admissions.ufl.edu/ugrad/frqualify.html ------------------------ # A combined score of at least 1330 on the critical reading, math and writing sections of the SAT (with writing), with a minimum score of 440 on each. Effective with the 2009 entering class, the university will begin considering the writing portion of the SAT. # On the ACT With Writing, a composite score of 19 is required with a minimum of 17 on the English subsection, a minimum of 19 on the math subsection and a minimum of 18 on the reading subsection. ACT scores without the Writing component cannot be used for freshman admission decisions. ------------------------- That minimum requirement might be waived if the applying student is gifted in athletic abilities, though, so you may be right. > and would be positively apoplectic if someone suggested >using an SAT score as the sole criterion for college admission. Of course the score is not a sole criterion. A record of felony offenses might disqualify a student with a combined SAT of 1350, but - then, again - they might be overlooked if the student is gifted in athletic ability. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> Martin Ambuhl wrote > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >SATs have existed in the UK for maybe 10 - 15 years as a set of attainment >tests done by children - I'm sure we'll have borrowed the terminology. So, do the kids sit the SATs? SignatureJohn who wouldn't stand for it. > John O'Flaherty wrote >>So (asking as someone who occasionally come on terms like GRE and GMAT >>professionally) are all these tests examples of SATs, or are the SATs a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >So, do the kids sit the SATs? Depends on which school they're at, whether SATs are sat. DC -- >> Raymond O'Hara filted: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > counted for little, many fewer people took it, so later the PSAT (not > LSAT) was bundled with the NMSQT as a single test. When I was in high school ('72 to '76), everyone took the ACT and most took the PSAT, but out of a class of nearly 200, only 8 of us took the SAT. The LSAT and GRE were both taken in college, if you wanted to go on to law school in particular or grad school in general, respectively. I think there was also one the equivalent of the LSAT for med school; the MEDCAT, I think. I don't recall the NMSQT at all. > Martin Ambuhl wrote in: >>> Raymond O'Hara filted: >>>>> We don't say "sat". We say "ess ay tee". The other common test >>>>> is the ACT, and we say "ay cee tee" and never "act". [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > the LSAT for med school; the MEDCAT, I think. I don't recall the > NMSQT at all. Back in February of 1951, I took some sort of college entrance test. The only thing I recall is that I had to write an essay, and that I did a good enough job to not have to take Bonehead English in college. That's not too bad, as I was still pretty much "fresh off the boat" in those days. I started my college adventures that March. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>> Raymond O'Hara filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the LSAT for med school; the MEDCAT, I think. I don't recall the > NMSQT at all. You may remember it as National Merit Scholarship Qualifying Test. Another qualifying test for graduate school was the Miller Analogies Test which was not known by an acronym as far as I recall. >>>> Raymond O'Hara filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Another qualifying test for graduate school was the Miller Analogies > Test which was not known by an acronym as far as I recall. Ah. No, I don't think I took that one; we could submit our ACT or SAT scores instead, and that's what I did. > > Another qualifying test for graduate school was the Miller Analogies > > Test which was not known by an acronym as far as I recall. > > Ah. No, I don't think I took that one; we could submit our ACT or SAT > scores instead, and that's what I did. For grad school? That seems unusual. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) > > Raymond O'Hara filted: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > many fewer people took it, so later the PSAT (not LSAT) was bundled > with the NMSQT as a single test. On the PSAT/NMSQT I was a "commended student", which really meant "oh so close to the money here is a certificate suitable for framing thanks for playing." As a result, I got tons of literature from schools, and a few scholarship offers that were about the equivalent of a 10% off coupon. You had to be a "quarter-finalist" to get into the real scholarship money. I didn't take either the SAT or ACT. I was planning to go to an in-state public university, and there was a Missouri test (the SCAT) given to all juniors in public high schools that was acceptable for admission. Being cheap, I didn't see any reason to pay for the other tests. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) >> Raymond O'Hara filted: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > That would be strange, if true. > When I took these, the SAT, PSAT, and NMSQT were separate tests. Me, too -- and we pronounced NMSQT "nimsquit", but the other as their constituent letters. > The > LSAT came much later for those who took it, in the same time frame as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > for little, many fewer people took it, so later the PSAT (not LSAT) was > bundled with the NMSQT as a single test. We were encouraged to take the PSAT as a practice run for the SAT. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>>'It's not an SAT test' is what Boopsie's saying in the first panel of >>>today's [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > But the LSAT is ell-sat, go figure?. And then there was the LANDSAT, which also ended in a pronounced "sat." --Jeff SignatureI learned that ... the most grinding poverty is a trifling evil compared with the inequality of classes. --William Morris >'It's not an SAT test' is what Boopsie's saying in the first panel of today's >Doonesbury. > >'An Sat'? We have SAT - Standard Attainment Tests - in the UK but the acronym >is always pronounced 'sat' as in 'the cat ... on the mat'. Is it S-A-T >leftpond? I first took it in 1954 and I don't think I've ever hear it pronounced "sat", but always spelled out (so to speak): "S-A-T" Memory tells me that tehy were the Scholastic Achievement Tests, buty I could be wrong. I gave a cursory check of the CEEB web site and caon't find it spelled out, but I see that "SAT" is a registered trademark. Signature************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
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