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Discussion Groups / English Usage / February 2004not care to
I've always used "don't care to [verb]" to mean something like "don't want to [verb]", usually an understatement for something like "want not to [verb]". But I've lately heard some people use "don't care to [verb]" where I'd use "don't mind [verb]ing", quite the opposite meaning from that of "want not to [verb]". Michael Hamm Since mid-September of 2003, AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis I've been erasing too much UBE. msh210@math.wustl.edu Of a reply, then, if you have been cheated, http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ Likely your mail's by mistake been deleted. > I've always used "don't care to [verb]" to mean something like "don't want > to [verb]", usually an understatement for something like "want not to > [verb]". But I've lately heard some people use "don't care to [verb]" > where I'd use "don't mind [verb]ing", quite the opposite meaning from that > of "want not to [verb]". They are wrong, you are right. ------- GC > > I've always used "don't care to [verb]" to mean something like "don't want > > to [verb]", usually an understatement for something like "want not to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > They are wrong, you are right. Alas and alack, it doesn't really matter that they're wrong. Their barbarism will be standard (and in M-W) within a decade. ("I don't care to" meaning "I don't want to"/"I don't like -ing" is a silly affectation though, so it won't be a great loss.) Adrian > "Gwilym Calon" <gwilymc@prowebnet.co.uk> wrote > > "Michael Hamm" <msh210@math.wustl.edu> wrote > > > I've always used "don't care to [verb]" to mean something like "don't > want [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Alas and alack, it doesn't really matter that they're wrong. Their barbarism > will be standard (and in M-W) within a decade. Does this gloom come from general principles, or have you encountered this strange use as well? Can someone point to any example on the Web or the Usenet Archives of someone saying "don't care to X" when they clearly mean "don't mind Xing"? I tried a few possibilities and haven't found any yet. I'd like to see the context. The closest I came was a case of negative questioning, "You don't care to tell me, do you?" Michael, is it some special use like that? Somehow that negative twist relates to being polite, although I can't quite identify why. >("I don't care to" meaning "I > don't want to"/"I don't like -ing" is a silly affectation though, so it > won't be a great loss.)  SignatureDonna Richoux > > > > I've always used "don't care to [verb]" to mean something like > > > > "don't want to [verb]", usually an understatement for something > > > > like "want not to [verb]". But I've lately heard some people use > > > > "don't care to [verb]" where I'd use "don't mind [verb]ing", quite > > > > the opposite meaning from that of "want not to [verb]". <snip> > Can someone point to any example on the Web or the Usenet Archives of > someone saying "don't care to X" when they clearly mean "don't mind [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The closest I came was a case of negative questioning, "You don't care > to tell me, do you?" Michael, is it some special use like that? No, indeed. It was a statement. Anyway, I'd understand "You don't care to tell me, do you?" as meaning "You don't wish to tell me, do you?". Michael Hamm Since mid-September of 2003, AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis I've been erasing too much UBE. msh210@math.wustl.edu Of a reply, then, if you have been cheated, http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ Likely your mail's by mistake been deleted. >I've always used "don't care to [verb]" to mean something like "don't want >to [verb]", usually an understatement for something like "want not to >[verb]". But I've lately heard some people use "don't care to [verb]" >where I'd use "don't mind [verb]ing", quite the opposite meaning from that >of "want not to [verb]". About 20 years ago we had a visitor from the US and took him and his family on a camping trip, and when I offered him a cup of coffee he said "I don't care". At the time it struck me as amazingly rude, but when I asked about it here, I was told it was normal US usage. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >> I've always used "don't care to [verb]" to mean something like >> "don't want to [verb]", usually an understatement for something like [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > At the time it struck me as amazingly rude, but when I asked about it > here, I was told it was normal US usage. I'm pretty sure that he must have said, "I don't care for any." "Care for" is normal US usage to express a desire or liking for something. From M-W Online for "care": intransitive senses 1 a : to feel trouble or anxiety b : to feel interest or concern <care about freedom> 2 : to give care <care for the sick> 3 a : to have a liking, fondness, or taste <don't care for your attitude> b : to have an inclination <would you care for some pie> transitive senses 1 : to be concerned about or to the extent of 2 : WISH <if you care to go> SignatureSkitt (in Hayward, California) www.geocities.com/opus731/ >About 20 years ago we had a visitor from the US and took him and his family on >a camping trip, and when I offered him a cup of coffee he said "I don't care". > >At the time it struck me as amazingly rude, but when I asked about it here, I >was told it was normal US usage. I would call it extremely old-fashioned US usage, not "normal." And even so I would expect to hear "mind" rather than "care." SignatureTruly Donovan Lexy Connor mysteries: Chandler's Daughter, Winslow's Wife http://www.trulydonovan.com truly@trulydonovan.com >> About 20 years ago we had a visitor from the US and took him and his >> family on a camping trip, and when I offered him a cup of coffee he [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I would call it extremely old-fashioned US usage, not "normal." And > even so I would expect to hear "mind" rather than "care." Unless he thought he was answering a question like "Tea or coffee?" or "What would you like to drink?" -- Michael West >> I would call it extremely old-fashioned US usage, not "normal." And >> even so I would expect to hear "mind" rather than "care." > >Unless he thought he was answering a question like "Tea or coffee?" >or "What would you like to drink?" That may even have been the question (it was 20 years ago now), but if it had been, I would still have been gobsmacked by the "I don't care" response. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>> I would call it extremely old-fashioned US usage, not "normal." And >>> even so I would expect to hear "mind" rather than "care." [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > if it had been, I would still have been gobsmacked by the "I don't > care" response. An Australian equivalent is "I don't mind", which sounds odd to an American. "I don't care" when offered a choice is very informal American idiom, but not really impolite (depending on the tone of voice). "Either, please. Thank you" would be what your Mom would have you say. SignatureMichael West >> That may even have been the question (it was 20 years ago now), but >> if it had been, I would still have been gobsmacked by the "I don't >> care" response. > >An Australian equivalent is "I don't mind", which >sounds odd to an American. It's the South African equivalent, too. >"I don't care" when offered a choice is very informal >American idiom, but not really impolite (depending >on the tone of voice). No, I don't think it was intended to be impolite. It just sounded impolite to me. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>About 20 years ago we had a visitor from the US and took him and his family on >>a camping trip, and when I offered him a cup of coffee he said "I don't care". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I would call it extremely old-fashioned US usage, not "normal." And >even so I would expect to hear "mind" rather than "care." "Mind" would have been in the response I would have made, if asked the same question. I was a bit gobsmacked at his response. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > "Mind" would have been in the response I would have made, if asked > the same question. > > I was a bit gobsmacked at his response. As I would be by yours. "I don't mind" to me means "That does not bother/offend me". "(I) Don't mind if I do" is a relatively strong acceptance. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |English grammar is not taught in 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |primary or secondary schools in the Palo Alto, CA 94304 |United States. Sometimes some |mythology is taught under that kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |rubric, but luckily it's usually (650)857-7572 |ignored, except by the credulous. | John Lawler http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>"Mind" would have been in the response I would have made, if asked >>the same question. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > bother/offend me". "(I) Don't mind if I do" is a relatively strong > acceptance. But, to us, "I don't care" sounds like "I don't give a damn", which does appear rude. SignatureRob Bannister >> "Mind" would have been in the response I would have made, if asked >> the same question. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >bother/offend me". "(I) Don't mind if I do" is a relatively strong >acceptance. So it appears that what the original poster seemed to think was a recent usage is in fact well estasblished, and, at least to some people, has become normative? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > So it appears that what the original poster seemed to think was a recent > usage is in fact well estasblished, and, at least to some people, has > become normative? Perhaps, but not because of anything you were replying to. I (OP) was talking specifically about "not care to [verb]" not "not care if [clause]". Michael Hamm Since mid-September of 2003, AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis I've been erasing too much UBE. msh210@math.wustl.edu Of a reply, then, if you have been cheated, http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ Likely your mail's by mistake been deleted. > I've always used "don't care to [verb]" to mean something like "don't want > to [verb]", usually an understatement for something like "want not to > [verb]". But I've lately heard some people use "don't care to [verb]" > where I'd use "don't mind [verb]ing", quite the opposite meaning from that > of "want not to [verb]". I have heard "Don't mind if I do" and "Don't care if I do" used in the same situation, that being a reply at the dinner table, when the hostess offers more food. Not wanting to sound greedy, one understates one's enthusiasm. (First sentence is badly written, I know, but, other than a complete rewrite, what punctuation would be correct. I am feeling very inhibited now about colons and semi-colons.) I don't care if he goes. I don't mind if he goes. No difference here. >I don't care if he goes. >I don't mind if he goes. > >No difference here. There is to me. "I don't mind if he goes" means I have no objection to his going. "I don't care if he goes" means good riddance. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk "Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote... > >I don't care if he goes. > >I don't mind if he goes. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > "I don't care if he goes" means good riddance. This distinction operates in Britain, too. Matti > > I've always used "don't care to [verb]" to mean something like "don't > > want to [verb]", usually an understatement for something like "want [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > situation, that being a reply at the dinner table, when the hostess offers > more food. <snip> > I don't care if he goes. > I don't mind if he goes. > > No difference here. Granted [1], but I was talking about "don't care to [verb]". [1] More precisely, I think that "if" in "don't care if [clause]" is in place of "whether", "if" in "don't mind if [clause]" is in place of "that", so that "don't care if [clause]" and "don't mind if [clause]" wind up having the same meaning. Michael Hamm Since mid-September of 2003, AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis I've been erasing too much UBE. msh210@math.wustl.edu Of a reply, then, if you have been cheated, http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ Likely your mail's by mistake been deleted. |
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