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Discussion Groups / English Usage / December 2008The omnipotent "whom"
"Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 years, Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political opposite on social issues." -- Caption in the Washington Post "Is his political opposite" is a murky way of saying "and who disagrees with him". >"Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 years, >Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political opposite on [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >"Is his political opposite" is a murky way of saying "and who >disagrees with him". Yes, but. This gives indication only that she disagrees with him on social issues. Even political opposites can have areas of agreement. For example, he and his wife may be in total agreement in the issue of bailouts to automakers.  SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 years, > Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political opposite on > social issues." I'm having problems parsing that - does "his political opposite" refer to somebody mentioned previously? SignatureDavid >> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 years, >> Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political opposite on >> social issues." > > I'm having problems parsing that - does "his political opposite" refer to > somebody mentioned previously? I thought that too. I think we should insert "and who" before "is his political". pe ... just starting his first humbug On Dec 24, 7:03 pm, "Philip Eden" <philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom> wrote: > I think we should insert "and who" before > "is his political". I agree. Marius Hancu > Philip Eden wrote >>>"Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 years, >>>Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political opposite on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I thought that too. I think we should insert "and who" before >"is his political". How about changing the comma after 'years' to a fullstop/period? >pe ... just starting his first humbug Bah. DC, already on the Min Spies -- >> Philip Eden wrote [...] >> pe ... just starting his first humbug > > Bah. > > DC, already on the Min Spies Our goose was cooked. We had a French one this year, and were startled to find that it arrived still attached to its reproachful-looking head. In another variation from Anglais standard. though it was well gutted (yes, yes, thought of that one), the giblets were still not only in the body cavity, but /connected/. It had shitty feet, too. SignatureMike. > Mike Lyle wrote >>>pe ... just starting his first humbug >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >thought of that one), the giblets were still not only in the body cavity, but >connected. It had shitty feet, too. That'll be the organic version, then. DC -- > Our goose was cooked. We had a French one this year, and were startled > to find that it arrived still attached to its reproachful-looking > head. In another variation from Anglais standard. though it was well > gutted (yes, yes, thought of that one), the giblets were still not > only in the body cavity, but connected. It had shitty feet, too. You're lucky. Somebody gave us a goose for Christmas dinner once; it came with the honk still attached. There's a lot of work in killing and cleaning a large goose. The feathers are attached with superglue. Just now, somebody has presented us with a 4.5 kg salmon which is too big for the oven. Still trying to work out what to do with it. -- Regards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >> Our goose was cooked. We had a French one this year, and were startled >> to find that it arrived still attached to its reproachful-looking [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Just now, somebody has presented us with a 4.5 kg salmon which is too > big for the oven. Still trying to work out what to do with it. Some kitchen shops and supermarkets in the UK will lend (or rent for a small fee) a large fish kettle. I think I saw one in Morrisson's last week. SignatureDavid John Holmes filted: >Just now, somebody has presented us with a 4.5 kg salmon which is too >big for the oven. Still trying to work out what to do with it. Cioppino?...r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" > You're lucky. Somebody gave us a goose for Christmas dinner once; it > came with the honk still attached. There's a lot of work in killing and > cleaning a large goose. The feathers are attached with superglue. > > Just now, somebody has presented us with a 4.5 kg salmon which is too > big for the oven. Still trying to work out what to do with it. I have a smoker out in the garage that you're welcome to borrow. SignatureSML > >> You're lucky. Somebody gave us a goose for Christmas dinner once; it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I have a smoker out in the garage that you're welcome to borrow. Don't you let the poor old devil smoke in the house -- not even at Christmas? SignatureLes (BrE) >>> You're lucky. Somebody gave us a goose for Christmas dinner once; it >>> came with the honk still attached. There's a lot of work in killing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Don't you let the poor old devil smoke in the house -- not even at > Christmas? My thoughts exactly. (By the way, in one town where I lived a number of years, there was a factory called "Outers Laboratories" which manufactured a very popular smoker for campers, hunters and fishermen. >> Just now, somebody has presented us with a 4.5 kg salmon which is too >> big for the oven. Still trying to work out what to do with it. > > I have a smoker out in the garage that you're welcome to borrow. Somebody borrowed ours for Christmas and broke the legs off it. Thanks to all for the suggestions. After cutting the head off and a few steaks off the tail, we managed to fit it in the oven in foil, stuffed with lemons, parsley and garlic. The shops were all shut by then so we had to make do with what we had. It was delicious. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>> Just now, somebody has presented us with a 4.5 kg salmon which is too >>> big for the oven. Still trying to work out what to do with it. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > with lemons, parsley and garlic. The shops were all shut by then so we > had to make do with what we had. It was delicious. Oh, that sounds good. My spouse did about the same thing with a nearly-whole -- headless -- salmon from Costco (US membership warehouse-type store) for our holiday party this past weekend. Tasty! And it fed multitudes. Well, about fifteen, anyway, with much left over as it had to compete also with her Portuguese codfish salad and many other foods. (I made the latkes and organized the chamber music. Oh, and a Welsh friend brought some hard-to-find English cheeses from a specialty shop near her current New-Jersey home: a Shropshire blue that even I who do not usually care for blue cheeses enjoyed and a Wensleydale _without fruit in it_, mirabile dictu. Those were a singularly great treat among the many treats that ended up on the table.) SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 years, >> Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political opposite on >> social issues." > >I'm having problems parsing that - does "his political opposite" refer >to somebody mentioned previously? No, it means that his wife is his political opposite; her political views on social issues are the opposite of his. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 >>> years, Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > No, it means that his wife is his political opposite; her political > views on social issues are the opposite of his. Well, if they are political opposites on social issues, it would read better as "... is *her* political opposite ...". After all, the compound subject of the sentence is "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor". Right now it does not make much sense, grammatically speaking. SignatureSkitt (AmE) trying to make sense >>>> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 >>>> years, Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Right now it does not make much sense, grammatically speaking. Does it make a difference? I can't imagine anyone not being able to easily understand what was said and meant. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 >>>>> years, Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Does it make a difference? I can't imagine anyone not being able to > easily understand what was said and meant. The only way I can read it is that it refers to someone mentioned previously, but is somewhere between inelegant and wrong in structure in the way it drags his wife in. It has to be "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor ... is his political opposite on social issues". The ... tells us he's been married for 19 years to someone he met on a blind date. There's something definitely iffy about that "with" - it's not a photo caption is it? It's impressive in starting with 6 consecutive capital letters. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk Experimental version; http://canalplan.eu >Does it make a difference? I can't imagine anyone not being able to >easily understand what was said and meant. "Communication was did," eh? >>>>> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 >>>>> years, Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Does it make a difference? I can't imagine anyone not being able to > easily understand what was said and meant. Well, I figured out what was meant, even though it wasn't what was written, but there's no reason to support ungrammatical writing. SignatureSkitt (AmE) striving to be good -- grammatical, even. >>>>>> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 >>>>>> years, Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Well, I figured out what was meant, even though it wasn't what was written, >but there's no reason to support ungrammatical writing. I don't support bad writing, but you said it doesn't make sense. It made sense to me even though it is poorly written. I didn't have to figure it out. The meaning was clear on the first reading. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>>>> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 >>>>>>> years, Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > made sense to me even though it is poorly written. I didn't have to > figure it out. The meaning was clear on the first reading. It must be the curse of someone with engineering and law education and experience -- I had to read the subject sentence a couple of times to figure out exactly what was meant. That happens to me a lot when people don't say what they mean. I tend to take things rather literally. During my working career I had to. SignatureSkitt (AmE) I meant what I wrote. >>>>>>>> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 >>>>>>>> years, Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >what they mean. I tend to take things rather literally. During my working >career I had to. This kind of thing comes up fairly frequently in aue. Someone says a sentence or paragraph doesn't make sense, and I get it the first time. There is something about the sentence or paragraph that is wrong, but my mind corrects it as I read. Others want to read the sentence two or three times. I think this is because I'm a very fast reader. I read in blocks of text rather than by-the-word. My wife, when she watches me read, accuses me of scanning books instead of reading them. It annoys her when I can remember the text and even tell her that such-and-such was on the top left side of the page. Since I read that sentence as a group, or block, my mind adjusts it as I take it in. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >> jo...@verizon.net wrote: > >>> "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor with his wife of 19 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Right now it does not make much sense, grammatically speaking. I suspect it's the result of falling between that and "Incoming Republican House Whip Eric Cantor, whose wife of 19 years, Diana, whom he met on a blind date, is his political opposite on social issues...." Philip's "and who" may also have contributed. I feel sure it's a result of Overly Common Journalists Trying And Seldom Succeeding To Pack Too Much Information Into One Sentence Syndrome. -- Jerry Friedman |
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