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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009Christmas, but not a Merry-Christmasy, coincidence.
Every Christmas season, my husband sends cards/letters to two of his Army buddies. Mike, who was the Best Man at our wedding, lived in Pennsylvania. Nevarez, whom I've never met, lived in New Mexico. The three guys had kept in touch ever since their Army days ended in 1962; but lately, mostly at Christmas. Return greetings arrived late, and were from relatives of the two. Mike's sister said Mike had passed away on August 17, 2008; Nevarez' relative (possibly also a sister) said he'd died on August 16, 2008. No further details were given in either case. (Brian's writing to both relatives for more information.) The three buddies were all about the same age, and that tends to make a person think about his own mortality.  SignatureMaria C. Resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit. >Every Christmas season, my husband sends cards/letters to two of his >Army buddies. Mike, who was the Best Man at our wedding, lived in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >The three buddies were all about the same age, and that tends to make a >person think about his own mortality. Sobering. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > Every Christmas season, my husband sends cards/letters to two of his > Army buddies. Mike, who was the Best Man at our wedding, lived in [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > further details were given in either case. (Brian's writing to both > relatives for more information.) My condolences to Brian (although I'm relieved that he got through August), but this raises a question in my mind. Do you include your full name and address in cards you send? We don't, so a Christmas card intercepted by a bereaved relative would not be easy to answer, as they'd only have a few given names to go on. Perhaps we should start. SignatureDavid >Maria C. wrote: >> Return greetings arrived late, and were from relatives of the two. >>Mike's sister said Mike had passed away on August 17, 2008; Nevarez' [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Perhaps we should start. Indeed. We are generally unprepared for other people's deaths (I leave everyone to tick their own box on their own future departure). I blame medical science. In fact, I need to phone someone who should be in his nineties to find out if he is still alive, but am putting it off. We don't always know who has sent us a card, if the names are not unique among our friends and we don't recognise the handwriting. There's one pair of couples which we can only tell apart if the Royal Mail has cancelled with clarity, so that we may tell Staines from Bridgend. As for Ax who sent us a card this year, with a promise to visit in the summer 'if we are down your way': Look, Ax, I'd prefer the name in full to the kiss (but there again, it might just depend which side of the couple sent it). SignaturePaul >> Maria C. wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > be in his nineties to find out if he is still alive, but am putting > it off. That's understandable. Maybe more of us do that (put off the call) than not. But if we put it off too long, we may find we've just missed a last chance. > We don't always know who has sent us a card, if the names are not > unique among our friends and we don't recognise the handwriting. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > full to the kiss (but there again, it might just depend which side of > the couple sent it). I'm not sure we've had an unidentified card lately. So many people have free return address labels (why waste them just because they were free and unasked for and from some charity you've donated to perhaps once if at all?) that it's just as easy as not to use them. SignatureMaria C. >> We don't always know who has sent us a card, if the names are not >> unique among our friends and we don't recognise the handwriting. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > were free and unasked for and from some charity you've donated to > perhaps once if at all?) that it's just as easy as not to use them. I still have a bunch of labels listing both of us from a set I ordered nine years ago when we moved here. I also have a stack of free labels listing only me that have arrived since then. My wife has her own free labels listing only her. Very few labels get used these days, as almost all our bills get paid on line, and personal matters are settled by phone. Then, there's e-mail ... SignatureSkitt (AmE) >> Maria C. wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > to the kiss (but there again, it might just depend which side of the > couple sent it). I receive quite a few cards from former students but these days I have considerable difficulty in remembering who they are, especially the women whose surnames change, sometimes more than once over the years. Occasionally they include family photos but that rarely helps as they have changed so much. A card from a former colleague was helpfully signed "Ian (Smith, just in case)". The people who are really important in my life do not make any assumptions and indicate their roles: I've had cards signed "Gladys the paper lady", "Kevin the milkman" and "Lee the gardener". SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>August), but this raises a question in my mind. Do you include your >>full name and address in cards you send? We don't, so a Christmas card [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> >Indeed. We are generally unprepared for other people's deaths (I leave I have taken in the last few years to adding my email address to cards. It's produced quite a few responses from people I hadn't written to or heard from for years apart from the basic Christmas cards. I wish other people would do it - it's become such an easy way to say hello, where ringing up someone you haven't spoken to for twenty-five years is more difficult. Katy >> Every Christmas season, my husband sends cards/letters to two of his >> Army buddies. Mike, who was the Best Man at our wedding, lived in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > My condolences to Brian (although I'm relieved that he got through > August), Thanks. So are we, in retrospect. > ....but this raises a question in my mind. Do you include your > full name and address in cards you send? We don't, so a Christmas > card intercepted by a bereaved relative would not be easy to answer, > as they'd only have a few given names to go on. We both put address labels on the envelopes. They will say either Brian's full name and address, or my full name and address, or both our names and address ("address" singular; we live in the same place, but have separate return address labels, just as we have separate bank accounts). > Perhaps we should start. Last names help, even among close friends. "The Omrud" may be a one-of-a-kind handle, but "David" isn't. Maybe even "David and [wife's] name" could be a duplicate. (Is wife's name Victoria, per chance?) SignatureMaria C. Who knows no other "Brian & Maria" couple. >>> Every Christmas season, my husband sends cards/letters to two of his >>> Army buddies. Mike, who was the Best Man at our wedding, lived in [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > one-of-a-kind handle, but "David" isn't. Maybe even "David and [wife's] > name" could be a duplicate. (Is wife's name Victoria, per chance?) No. I think I mentioned her you her name when I emailed photos some time ago. We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these days, so they had nowhere to hide. One Posh, one bloke (security, luggage carrier?) one lady (nanny), two little boys and one baby. Nicely behaved, they were. Not one person on the plane made any reference to the fact that they were there; makes yer proud to be an honorary Mancunian. SignatureDavid >>>> Every Christmas season, my husband sends cards/letters to two of his >>>> Army buddies. Mike, who was the Best Man at our wedding, lived in [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >reference to the fact that they were there; makes yer proud to be an >honorary Mancunian. I don't think there was any business class in internal flights in the States back in the '70s, and possibly not today. Eddy Murphy was on one flight I took, together with two minders, each about twice as big as him. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England > On Sat, 27 Dec 2008 21:15:25 GMT, the Omrud > >We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to > >Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > one flight I took, together with two minders, each about twice as big > as him. I sat behind that Al Gore once. At the time I only thought of him as the bloke married to that irritating Tipper who wanted warning labels on records (were they records then? They may well already have been CDs....). Little did I know. cheers, Stephanie >> Last names help, even among close friends. "The Omrud" may be a >> one-of-a-kind handle, but "David" isn't. Maybe even "David and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No. I think I mentioned her you her name when I emailed photos some > time ago. You did, and her "Yorkshire" accent. I didn't feel free to mention it here, and I also wanted to make a little joke. (I almost said, "is wife's name Bathsheba, per chance?") > We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to > Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > reference to the fact that they were there; makes yer proud to be an > honorary Mancunian. It's nice that no one bothered Posh and family. (Btw, I don't think I've ever flown with anyone famous. Of course, I don't fly all that often. So: my manners are untested.) SignatureMaria C. No brushes with fame lately. >We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to >Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >reference to the fact that they were there; makes yer proud to be an >honorary Mancunian. A friend had lunch in a noodle bar in Manchester the other day. At a nearby table was a chap who looked very much like Chris Hoy, then she realised was Hoy. She refrained from interrupting his meal but tells me that he really does has very, very fine arms. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to >>Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >realised was Hoy. She refrained from interrupting his meal but tells >me that he really does has very, very fine arms. Oops! Stuck Lyrics Syndrome: http://www.jilldaniels.com/LAY%20DOWN%20YOUR%20ARMS.htm .... Lay down your arms (Lay down your arms) Lay down your arms and surrender to mine SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to >> Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > realised was Hoy. She refrained from interrupting his meal but tells > me that he really does has very, very fine arms. In my life, I've had a snack at a restaurant table next to Shecky Greene's table, and Dave Brubeck bumped into me in Birdland, spilling a bit of my drink. All of that was decades ago. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >> We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to >> Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > realised was Hoy. She refrained from interrupting his meal but tells > me that he really does has very, very fine arms. I would be impressed if I had any idea who Chris Hoy was. SignatureDavid >>> We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to >>> Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >I would be impressed if I had any idea who Chris Hoy was. Ahem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Hoy Christopher "Chris" Hoy MBE (born 23 March 1976 in Edinburgh) is a track cyclist representing Great Britain and Scotland. He is a multiple world champion and Olympic Games gold medal winner. With his three gold medals in Beijing 2008 Hoy became Scotland's most successful Olympian, the first Briton to win three gold medals in a single Olympic games since Henry Taylor, in 1908, and the most successful Olympic male cyclist of all time. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) BrE filted: >>> A friend had lunch in a noodle bar in Manchester the other day. At a >>> nearby table was a chap who looked very much like Chris Hoy, then she [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Henry Taylor, in 1908, and the most successful Olympic male cyclist of all > time. Oh, so a sort of second-rate Lance Armstrong, then?...r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >BrE filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Oh, so a sort of second-rate Lance Armstrong, then?...r The only thing they have in common is that they race on bicycles. The events in which they compete are utterly different. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >BrE filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Oh, so a sort of second-rate Lance Armstrong, then?...r Armstrong has managed to win one race a number of times. Hoy has managed to win a variety of races a number of times. They can't really be compared, other than the fact that they both use bikes. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > > Oh, so a sort of second-rate Lance Armstrong, then?...r > > Armstrong has managed to win one race a number of times. Hoy has > managed to win a variety of races a number of times. They can't really > be compared, other than the fact that they both use bikes. While Lance is best known for winning one race seven times, his career features many other wins in various forms of bicycle racing. He was also a world-class triathlete in his younger days. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) Default User filted: >> > Oh, so a sort of second-rate Lance Armstrong, then?...r >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >features many other wins in various forms of bicycle racing. He was >also a world-class triathlete in his younger days. And he got to be married, if only for a while, to Sheryl Crow...that has to count for something....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:25:08 GMT, the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gEXPUNGEmail.com> >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Henry Taylor, in 1908, and the most successful Olympic male cyclist of all > time. One of the Hoy Polloy team, I believe. SignaturePaul >>>> We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to >>>> Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Henry Taylor, in 1908, and the most successful Olympic male cyclist of all > time. Ah. I'm not well informed on sporting matters. I didn't see a single minute of the Olympics this year. SignatureDavid On 29 Dec 2008, the Omrud wrote >>>>> We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from >>>>> Madrid to Manchester a couple of years ago. No business [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Ah. I'm not well informed on sporting matters. I didn't see a > single minute of the Olympics this year. I'd say he falls into "current affairs" rather than "sporting news": I'm also poory informed on sporting matters -- of the Olympics, I watched the end of the marathon and that was it -- but I do read a good newspaper each day. If you do the same, I'm rather surprised you didn't clock Hoy's name from the amount of coverage he got in the main news pages of the papers during the past year. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 29 Dec 2008, the Omrud wrote > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > name from the amount of coverage he got in the main news pages of > the papers during the past year. I don't read national newspapers with any regularity - I can't imagine how I'd find the time. When I do buy a paper (or get one free at a hotel), I usually find it's still hanging around two weeks later because I haven't finished reading it. I also don't watch TV news which seems to be slow and obsessed with pictures. I get all my news from the radio (which gets through twice as much as the TV in the same amount of time), and these days a little from the Internet. I'm sure his name was reported on the radio but it didn't lodge itself in my memory. SignatureDavid >> On 29 Dec 2008, the Omrud wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >and these days a little from the Internet. I'm sure his name was >reported on the radio but it didn't lodge itself in my memory. Hoy's name might have entered your ear when he was chosen BBC Sport's Personality of the Year (ahead of Lewis Hamilton -- a racer on four wheels M'Lud). SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>> On 29 Dec 2008, the Omrud wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > Personality of the Year (ahead of Lewis Hamilton -- a racer on four wheels > M'Lud). Quite likely; I remember the event being reported, but I didn't take in the name of the winner. For some reason I am more aware of Hamilton although I have no idea what he looks like. It was years before I discovered that Frank Bruno was black. SignatureDavid >For some reason I am more aware of Hamilton >although I have no idea what he looks like. It was years before I >discovered that Frank Bruno was black. Lewis Hamilton, like Barack Obama (nearly POTUS), has a white mother and a black father. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LewisHamilton_2_2007_amk.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Poster-sized_portrait_of_Barack_Obama.jpg SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> For some reason I am more aware of Hamilton >> although I have no idea what he looks like. It was years before I >> discovered that Frank Bruno was black. > > Lewis Hamilton, like Barack Obama (nearly POTUS), has a white mother and a > black father. Actually, I did know that - it's had some coverage on radio news. I just wouldn't recognise him if he rang my doorbell. SignatureDavid >> Hoy's name might have entered your ear when he was chosen BBC Sport's >> Personality of the Year (ahead of Lewis Hamilton -- a racer on four wheels [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hamilton although I have no idea what he looks like. It was years > before I discovered that Frank Bruno was black. Although I noted both Hoy's wins and BSP victory, I'd forgotten his name enough not to recognise it in the cafe anecdote. I too get my news from the radio, and only found out that Lewis Hamilton was black when he was being abused in Spain (IIRC). SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu [Hoy, who he?] >> I'm sure his name was reported on the radio >> but it didn't lodge itself in my memory. > Hoy's name might have entered your ear when he was chosen BBC > Sport's Personality of the Year (ahead of Lewis Hamilton -- a racer > on four wheels M'Lud). It would have lodged in my ear, though it didn't, because "hoy" (a kind of boat, M'Lud) was one of the words I didn't get in a vocabulary quiz that showed up here last year. The one that fed rice grain by grain to the starving, I think. Chris the boat? > [Hoy, who he?] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Chris the boat? The name stuck in my mind because of the Old Man: http://www.orkney-seastacks.co.uk/oldman.htm SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> [Hoy, who he?] >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >The name stuck in my mind because of the Old Man: >http://www.orkney-seastacks.co.uk/oldman.htm The name Hoy always reminds me of a former acquaintance name Bill Hoy. When I knew him he was in business selling safety equipment and signage to businesses and other organisations. He would have sold signs headed "In Case of Fire"[1], and fire extinguishers to go with them. [1] See recent thread "How to correct *if a fire happens*?" SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [Hoy, who he?] >> [a kind of boat, M'Lud] Chris the boat? > The name stuck in my mind because of the Old Man: > http://www.orkney-seastacks.co.uk/oldman.htm Ah. Chris from the island, then. > Ah. I'm not well informed on sporting matters. I didn't see a single > minute of the Olympics this year. As someone* once said, "Sports is the Toy Department of life." I believe that. In fact, that's probably why I'm not overly upset that the Detroit Lions (professional football team) went 0-16 for the season. (Yes. Sixteen losses, no wins.) *Howard Cosell, per a Google hit. (I thought it was older than that.) SignatureMaria C. >> Ah. I'm not well informed on sporting matters. I didn't see a single >> minute of the Olympics this year. > > As someone* once said, "Sports is the Toy Department of life." Not a BrE speaker, then. "sports" is plural to us - the mass noun is "sport". SignatureDavid >>>> We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to >>>> Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Henry Taylor, in 1908, and the most successful Olympic male cyclist of all > time. He is now Sir Chris Hoy. The short form is "Sir Chris", never "Sir Hoy". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>> We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to >>>>> Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > He is now Sir Chris Hoy. The short form is "Sir Chris", never "Sir Hoy". That, I couldn't avoid this morning. Although I'm not sure that I would have retained his name without this discussion. SignatureDavid > > A friend had lunch in a noodle bar in Manchester the other day. At a > > nearby table was a chap who looked very much like Chris Hoy, then she > > realised was Hoy. > > I would be impressed if I had any idea who Chris Hoy was. But you're clear about Shecky Greene, right? -- WH >>> A friend had lunch in a noodle bar in Manchester the other day. At a >>> nearby table was a chap who looked very much like Chris Hoy, then she >>> realised was Hoy. >> I would be impressed if I had any idea who Chris Hoy was. > > But you're clear about Shecky Greene, right? No, but that was a US reference and it looks like the name of a baseball player, so I read over it. The reference to Hoy was probably from a restaurant I would go to sometimes, since there aren't all that many noodle bars in Manchester. SignatureDavid >>>> A friend had lunch in a noodle bar in Manchester the other day. At >>>> a nearby table was a chap who looked very much like Chris Hoy, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > probably from a restaurant I would go to sometimes, since there > aren't all that many noodle bars in Manchester. Shecky Greene is a comedian. He is also an avid horse racing fan. The time I sat at the next table to his was in a little cafe, right next to the entrance to the Bay Medows race track. We were having an early lunch before going to the races. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shecky_Greene SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>>>> A friend had lunch in a noodle bar in Manchester the other day. At >>>>> a nearby table was a chap who looked very much like Chris Hoy, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shecky_Greene Then I have seen Mr Greene in "History of the World, Part I", but I rather doubt that I would now recognise him. SignatureDavid > > > > But you're clear about Shecky Greene, right? > > > > > > No, but that was a US reference and it looks like the name of a > > > baseball player, so I read over it. > > Shecky Greene is a comedian. He is also an avid horse racing fan. > > The time I sat at the next table to his was in a little cafe, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Then I have seen Mr Greene in "History of the World, Part I", but I > rather doubt that I would now recognise him. I remember him best as "Braddock" on the TV show "Combat!". Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) > Shecky Greene is a comedian. He is also an avid horse racing fan. > The time I sat at the next table to his was in a little cafe, right > next to the entrance to the Bay Medows race track. "Meadows", damn it. SignatureSkitt (AmE) a decent speller, but a lousy typist >>> We sat three rows behind that Posh on a plane back from Madrid to >>> Manchester a couple of years ago. No business class in Europe these [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >I would be impressed if I had any idea who Chris Hoy was. Sir Chris now, he won gold medals in a variety of the track-cycling events at the Beijing games. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary On 27 Dec 2008, the Omrud wrote >> Every Christmas season, my husband sends cards/letters to two >> of his Army buddies. Mike, who was the Best Man at our wedding, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Perhaps we should start. My brother-in-law works for the NZ post office, and figures that UK posters are by far the worst for not putting return addresses on letters and cards. He sees it as part of his job to return letters, marked appropriately, when people have moved away or it's otherwise undeliverable, and it annoys him when he's unable to do that because of what he sees as inconsiderately omitting a return address. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On 27 Dec 2008, the Omrud wrote > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >because of what he sees as inconsiderately omitting a return >address. In my experience it has never been a general custom in the UK to put a return address on letters and cards. Some people do, many don't. On its website the Royal Mail does say: http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/content1?catId=7500151&mediaId=63800712 Top Tips for Sending Mail 2. Remember to include a return address on the post you send so that we can return it to you if it can't be delivered. This suggestion is no doubt also included in printed leaflets about sending mail. However, I suspect that the vast majority of people in the UK send mail without ever reading a leaflet from the Royal Mail. I don't recall any advertising campaign urging people to supply return addresses. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>On 27 Dec 2008, the Omrud wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >I don't recall any advertising campaign urging people to supply return >addresses. Partially because of my bad handwriting, I use Word (I know!) for all correspondence, including envelopes and stickers for parcels. The return address is added automatically. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England <snip> >Partially because of my bad handwriting, I use Word (I know!) for all >correspondence, including envelopes and stickers for parcels. The >return address is added automatically. Why the disclaimer? I'm not aware of any word processor better than Word. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland [...] > My brother-in-law works for the NZ post office, and figures that UK > posters are by far the worst for not putting return addresses on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > because of what he sees as inconsiderately omitting a return > address. He it no doubt was who sent on to the correct address a card one school friend had sent to another in north London. The envelope, instead of the complete London postal district, bore the legend "N2", and in spite of inadequate stampage had made its way to NZ. The sender later explained that he'd deliberately made it ambiguous because he'd heard a rumour that the recipient had emigrated... SignatureMike. Mike Lyle filted: >[...] >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >explained that he'd deliberately made it ambiguous because he'd heard a >rumour that the recipient had emigrated... In massaging a ten-thousand-entry database of addresses, I discovered that a surprising number of former copper-mine workers from Arizona are now living in "Ajo, Arkansas"....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" > My condolences to Brian (although I'm relieved that he got through > August), but this raises a question in my mind. Do you include your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Perhaps we should start. This is why the good L-rd invented return address labels, shirley. s in b (but with return address labels on all my cards) >> My condolences to Brian (although I'm relieved that he got through >> August), but this raises a question in my mind. Do you include your [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >This is why the good L-rd invented return address labels, shirley. Return address labels just don't seem to be a Brit thing, for some reason. It's not that they don't exist, but on the whole they're used for other things than putting on envelopes. If a letter is undeliverable, the Post Office always used to, and probably still does, open it and send it back to whatever name and address it can find inside. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>> My condolences to Brian (although I'm relieved that he got through >>> August), but this raises a question in my mind. Do you include your [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > does, open it and send it back to whatever name and address it can > find inside. In my younger days, when the arrival of the post was quite exciting, I always found letters from the US, with their envelopes carefully inscribed with the writer's address, slightly less exciting, as one lost the thrill of tearing open the envelope to find out who it was from. It was also irritating when some correspondents did not include their home address on the letter itself: the envelope was long gone when one wanted to reply. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) LFS filted: >In my younger days, when the arrival of the post was quite exciting, I >always found letters from the US, with their envelopes carefully [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >address on the letter itself: the envelope was long gone when one wanted >to reply. I once bought a compact disc on eBay from a seller in Minsk...when it arrived, the mailman left a sticky note on my door to pick it up in person at the Post Office...the sender was identified on the note as "BELARUS", that being the only part of the return address not in Cyrillic characters....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >LFS filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Office...the sender was identified on the note as "BELARUS", that being the only >part of the return address not in Cyrillic characters....r I bet that made you do some russian around. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England [...] >> I once bought a compact disc on eBay from a seller in Minsk...when >> it arrived, the mailman left a sticky note on my door to pick it up [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I bet that made you do some russian around. I bet you ran a spelling czech on that. SignatureMike. >>> I once bought a compact disc on eBay from a seller in Minsk...when >>> it arrived, the mailman left a sticky note on my door to pick it up [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I bet you ran a spelling czech on that. Lett's quit this right now! SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>>> I once bought a compact disc on eBay from a seller in Minsk...when >>>> it arrived, the mailman left a sticky note on my door to pick it up [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Lett's quit this right now! Not when we're poles apart. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >>>>> I once bought a compact disc on eBay from a seller in Minsk...when >>>>> it arrived, the mailman left a sticky note on my door to pick it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Not when we're poles apart. Don't allow your positions to become ossified. SignatureMike. >>>>>> I once bought a compact disc on eBay from a seller in Minsk...when >>>>>> it arrived, the mailman left a sticky note on my door to pick it [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Don't allow your positions to become ossified. I might develop a 'roo mania. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England > I once bought a compact disc on eBay from a seller in Minsk...when it arrived, > the mailman left a sticky note on my door to pick it up in person at the Post > Office...the sender was identified on the note as "BELARUS", that being the only > part of the return address not in Cyrillic characters....r Unfair! 1) Now we all want to know what was on the CD that it had to be ordered from Minsk. 2) Now I have STS: 'from Omsk to Tomsk to Minsk to Pinsk to *me* the news will run... and then I write by morning night and afternoon and pretty soon... my name in Dnepropetrovsk is cursed, when he finds out I publish first!' Parents really should be careful what they play repeatedly in the presence of their children, I find. I am a living example of the damage that can be done. cheers, Stephanie in Brussels PS -- no, really, what was on it?? TsuiDF filted: >> I once bought a compact disc on eBay from a seller in Minsk...when it arr= >ived, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >1) Now we all want to know what was on the CD that it had to be >ordered from Minsk. Electric Light Orchestra's first two albums...it didn't *have* to be ordered from Minsk; that's just where the first person who had it available happened to be located....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" > Now I have STS: 'from Omsk to Tomsk to Minsk to Pinsk to *me* the > news will run... and then I write by morning night and afternoon and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > presence of their children, I find. I am a living example of the > damage that can be done. Only be sure always to call it please "research". SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. > > Now I have STS: 'from Omsk to Tomsk to Minsk to Pinsk to *me* the > > news will run... and then I write by morning night and afternoon and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Only be sure always to call it please "research". I did manage once to slip a reference to a Tom Lehrer lyric into the footnote of a paper presented at an academic conference. The discussant noted the 'wide range' of references in the paper.... I took that as a compliment. cheers, and happy new year, Stephanie TsuiDF filted: >> > Now I have STS: =A0'from Omsk to Tomsk to Minsk to Pinsk to *me* the >> > news will run... and then I write by morning night and afternoon and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >discussant noted the 'wide range' of references in the paper.... I >took that as a compliment. Would it be a violation of a non-disclosure contract to reveal which lyric and what context you found for it?...r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" > TsuiDF filted: > >I did manage once to slip a reference to a Tom Lehrer lyric into the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Would it be a violation of a non-disclosure contract to reveal which lyric and > what context you found for it?...r No, not at all, it's long since out of date and I'm not sure I even have a copy of it anywhere handy. The lyric was from the song about von Braun (completely OT: whose autograph I once obtained after a scientific lecture I heard as a mere slip of a youth) and it was the bit about 'who cares where it comes down, that's not my department' to which I referred. The context was a discussion of the possibility of taking legal action in China in the mid-1990s against software piracy. (The connection is of course crystal clear, no?) IIRC, what I was getting at was that certain actions might seem worthwhile and reasonable at the time, but might have unintended consequences in the broader context. The 'certain actions' I was reflecting on included actions of the Anton Piller type (ex parte injunctions, of a type that, for example, the German administration averred it would never undertake, for historical reasons if nothing else). One had to ask oneself if one really wanted to urge the availability of such mechanisms. But that wouldn't have been very entertaining, so I slipped the Lehrer reference into a footnote, fully intending to remove it at a later date. Shall have to find the article one of these days and see if I actually did delete it before it hit print. Happy New Year, Stephanie >> TsuiDF filted: >> >I did manage once to slip a reference to a Tom Lehrer lyric into the [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >date. Shall have to find the article one of these days and see if I >actually did delete it before it hit print. Pondering on how a Stephanie could once have been a mere slip of a youth without considerable surgery, I was amazed to find that the noun "youth" , as in "a youth", can be of either sex. I never looked it up before. >Happy New Year, And to you and everyone else. I hope it goes on to get better than it started, for I've spent most of the time since the Saturday before Christmas with a raging cold and bronchitis which is being very stubborn. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England On 01 Jan 2009, Robin Bignall wrote >> The lyric was from the song about von Braun (completely OT: >> whose autograph I once obtained after a scientific lecture I >> heard as a mere slip of a youth) -snip- > Pondering on how a Stephanie could once have been a mere slip of > a youth without considerable surgery, I was amazed to find that > the noun "youth" , as in "a youth", can be of either sex. I > never looked it up before. My turn to be amazed by your amazification: it would never have occurred to me to consider "a youth" as a sex-restricted term. >> Happy New Year, >> > And to you and everyone else. Ditto 'n' all that. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On 01 Jan 2009, Robin Bignall wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >My turn to be amazed by your amazification: it would never have >occurred to me to consider "a youth" as a sex-restricted term. If you Google on "A youth was arrested", all entries on the first page refer to males. Probably most of the others do, too. I would not expect a girl or young woman to be called a youth. >>> Happy New Year, >>> >> And to you and everyone else. > >Ditto 'n' all that. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >> My turn to be amazed by your amazification: it would never have >> occurred to me to consider "a youth" as a sex-restricted term. >> > If you Google on "A youth was arrested", all entries on the first page > refer to males. Probably most of the others do, too. I would not > expect a girl or young woman to be called a youth. I assume that this is a Pondial difference. I would be surprised to find " a youth" used to refer to a girl in the UK. Fran >>> My turn to be amazed by your amazification: it would never have >>> occurred to me to consider "a youth" as a sex-restricted term. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I assume that this is a Pondial difference. I would be surprised to > find " a youth" used to refer to a girl in the UK. I, too, would be surprised to hear "a youth" in reference to a female. (Please refer also to my reply to Richard Yates.) SignatureMaria C. >>>> My turn to be amazed by your amazification: it would never have >>>> occurred to me to consider "a youth" as a sex-restricted term. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I, too, would be surprised to hear "a youth" in reference to a female. >(Please refer also to my reply to Richard Yates.) When I was in high school, the CYO (Catholic Youth Organization) put on sock hops. If it wasn't for the female youths, no one would have gone. Aren't there still "Youth Centers" around? SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>> My turn to be amazed by your amazification: it would never have >>>>> occurred to me to consider "a youth" as a sex-restricted term. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Aren't there still "Youth Centers" around? I guess; and "Youth Clubs" and "Youth Hostels" and a bunch of other things which have "youth" in their name, but don't refer to "a youth". Fran >>>>>> My turn to be amazed by your amazification: it would never have >>>>>> occurred to me to consider "a youth" as a sex-restricted term. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >I guess; and "Youth Clubs" and "Youth Hostels" and a bunch of other >things which have "youth" in their name, but don't refer to "a youth". I do see your point. "A youth", in the broad sense, refers to a young person of either sex. But we don't use it that way when talking about young people unless they are male. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> When I was in high school, the CYO (Catholic Youth Organization) put >>> on sock hops. If it wasn't for the female youths, no one would have [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I do see your point. "A youth", in the broad sense, refers to a young > person of either sex. I don't think "a youth" is used very often in conversation to refer to a young person of either sex. Not yet, anyway. We still seem to use "teenager," even though it's not a very accurate term. Even so, "a youth" is a term I've seen used in newspapers. (Ditto for the plural, as in "two youths.") > ....... But we don't use it that way when talking about > young people unless they are male. Right. We mean males. But as I just suggested to Richard Y., in a follow-up post, we may find we're following the Oregon practice in the future. Maria, reminded of the term "callow youth" (which was/is usually applied to boys, IIRC). >>>>> My turn to be amazed by your amazification: it would never have >>>>> occurred to me to consider "a youth" as a sex-restricted term. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > on sock hops. If it wasn't for the female youths, no one would have > gone. There is also the Boys and Girls Club of America. This from their site: "WASHINGTON, D.C., Sept. 19, 2007 - Today during a Congressional Breakfast, co-hosted by Sen. Orrin Hatch and Rep. Steny Hoyer, Boys & Girls Clubs of America (BGCA) announced that Demetrice Tuttle, a six-year member of Boys & Girls Clubs of West Georgia, has been named the 2007-2008 National Youth of the Year." I thought Demetrice would be a girl's name but was wrong. However, three of the five finalists (Brittny, Reyniesha, and Sasha) were girls. >> On 01 Jan 2009, Robin Bignall wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > refer to males. Probably most of the others do, too. I would not > expect a girl or young woman to be called a youth. A biased sample, Shirley. Try "a youth gave birth" and check the proportion of boys. RY > A biased sample, Shirley. Try "a youth gave birth" and check the > proportion of boys. RY I did just that. There were five instances: 1. "...A youth gave birth to, or fathered, any children." 2. "...whether a youth gave birth to, or fathered, any children." 3. "States will report whether a youth gave birth to, or fathered, any children..." The first three examples refer to a female or a male, and not to a female specifically. 4. "mothers who had lived in poverty as a youth gave birth outside of marriage,..." Only the fourth instance seems to use "youth" to refer specifically to females. *But* "...mothers who had lived in poverty as a youth" does not strike me as an example of anything other than awkward-to-poor usage. Also "...a youth" can only refer to one person, and thus, not to "mothers." I think "in their youth" would have been a better choice of words. 5. "a sheep allegedly violated by a youth gave birth to a half-human monster -- a human/animal hybrid,..." This last example is obviously of AUE interest, and thus I include it. (I think we can assume a female sheep and a male violator, though.) SignatureMaria C. >> A biased sample, Shirley. Try "a youth gave birth" and check the >> proportion of boys. RY [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > This last example is obviously of AUE interest, and thus I include it. > (I think we can assume a female sheep and a male violator, though.) I was not entirely serious about Googlong that, just making the point that "youth was arrested" was far more likely on a statistical basis to turn up boys regardless of the definition of "youth." Turning that point on its head, however, I found this definition in the laws of the State of Oregon. The relevant department is named "Oregon Youth Authority" and manages boy and girl offenders. "ORS 419A.004 Definitions (35) “Youth” means a person under 18 years of age who is alleged to have committed an act that is a violation, or, if done by an adult would constitute a violation, of a law or ordinance of the United States or a state, county or city." > I was not entirely serious about Googlong that, just making the point > that "youth was arrested" was far more likely on a statistical basis > to turn up boys regardless of the definition of "youth." Ah. I didn't get that from your earlier post. > ...Turning that > point on its head, however, I found this definition in the laws of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > by an adult would constitute a violation, of a law or ordinance of > the United States or a state, county or city." Defining "Youth" as "a person under 18 years of age who is alleged to have committed an act that is a violation..." makes it easier to name the facility/department. It also helps in deterring any charges of sex discrimination. Note: The term "youth," in recent years, has been used by police departments, courts, and newspapers to mean non-adult males -- and generally non-adult males involved in criminal acts. The Oregon definition (above) has not become common yet, AFAIK. How long will it take? A few years? SignatureMaria C. >> ...Turning that >> point on its head, however, I found this definition in the laws of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the facility/department. It also helps in deterring any charges of sex > discrimination. It also renders oxymoronic the term "innocence of youth". SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>> ...Turning that >>> point on its head, however, I found this definition in the laws of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > It also renders oxymoronic the term "innocence of youth". Verily. (Say, where's Fontana?) SignatureMaria C. >>>> ...Turning that >>>> point on its head, however, I found this definition in the laws of [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >(Say, where's Fontana?) If Richard is in Ireland, I haven't seen him. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >> Verily. >> >> (Say, where's Fontana?) > > If Richard is in Ireland, I haven't seen him. Would you recognize him if you saw him? (I wouldn't, but I think some folks in AUE would.) SignatureMaria C. >>> Verily. >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Would you recognize him if you saw him? (I wouldn't, but I think some >folks in AUE would.) I might know him by his categorizations, but if we happened on to a discussion of sandwiches, I'd know him for sure. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland [si la jeunesse pouvait] > 5. "a sheep allegedly violated by a youth gave birth to a half-human > monster -- a human/animal hybrid,..." > This last example is obviously of AUE interest, and thus I include > it. (I think we can assume a female sheep and a male violator, > though.) And a baby ewth. > [si la jeunesse pouvait] "her callowness"? SignatureMaria C. >> [si la jeunesse pouvait] > "her callowness"? I don't understand the question. The bridge was "if youth [only] could", a skeptical variation on the proverbial French for "If youth only knew, if age only could". In view of the tendency to use "youth" for male individuals, I also thought it was interesting that the word was feminine in English, back when we had grammatical gender*, just as it still is in French. *It probably wasn't used to mean an individual yoot, though: I get the gender from a stray OE tag "oth thaet seo geogoth geweox", until [some king's or hero's] retinue of young men grew [more numerous]", where "seo" is the feminine form of the article. >>> [si la jeunesse pouvait] > >> "her callowness"? > > I don't understand the question. Not being a speaker of French, I "machine translated" the phrase "si la jeunesse pouvait." The translation was "her callowness." Obviously, I misspelled/mistyped something. (Any guesses?) Sorry, Charles. I understand now. And I liked the "baby ewth" part. SignatureMaria C. >>>> [si la jeunesse pouvait] >>> "her callowness"? >> I don't understand the question. > Not being a speaker of French, I "machine translated" the phrase > "si la jeunesse pouvait." The translation was "her callowness." > Obviously, I misspelled/mistyped something. (Any guesses?) Mystification. I tried the phrase in Babelfish and got "if youth could". There is a connection between youth and callowness, of course, and my E-F dictionary says "la verte jeunesse" (green youth) is one way of expressing it. All I can think of. > Sorry, Charles. I understand now. And I liked the "baby ewth" part. A small thing. Only metaphorically my own. >>>>> [si la jeunesse pouvait] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > course, and my E-F dictionary says "la verte jeunesse" (green youth) > is one way of expressing it. All I can think of. Mystery solved: I put in the correct phrase ("si la jeunesse pouvait") but chose, in error, to translate from French to Bulgarian -- which is apparently the default from French. What I got was the translation "ако her callowness p.t. от can,"* which I trimmed to "her callowness," not knowing what else to do. When I re-did the translation just now, I made sure the "go-to" language was English, and got "if youth could." The machine translation site is http://www.foreignword.com/Tools/transnow.htm *The font/characters may not reproduce exactly as typed. SignatureMaria C. >>>>>> [si la jeunesse pouvait] >>>>> "her callowness"? >>>> I don't understand the question. >>> Not being a speaker of French, I "machine translated" the phrase >>> "si la jeunesse pouvait." The translation was "her callowness." >>> Obviously, I misspelled/mistyped something. (Any guesses?) >> Mystification. I tried the phrase in Babelfish and got "if youth >> could". There is a connection between youth and callowness, of >> course, and my E-F dictionary says "la verte jeunesse" (green >> youth) >> is one way of expressing it. All I can think of. > Mystery solved: I put in the correct phrase ("si la jeunesse > pouvait") but chose, in error, to translate from French to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > re-did the translation just now, I made sure the "go-to" language > was English, and got "if youth could." > The machine translation site is > http://www.foreignword.com/Tools/transnow.htm > *The font/characters may not reproduce exactly as typed. Is there a Bulgarian expert in the house? Rob Bannister has made observations about the language in times past. [si la jeunesse pouvait] > 5. "a sheep allegedly violated by a youth gave birth to a half-human > monster -- a human/animal hybrid,..." > This last example is obviously of AUE interest, and thus I include > it. (I think we can assume a female sheep and a male violator, > though.) And a baby ewth. >> Happy New Year, >> > And to you and everyone else. I hope it goes on to get better than it > started, for I've spent most of the time since the Saturday before > Christmas with a raging cold and bronchitis which is being very > stubborn. I had 3 weeks' worth of that stuff in early December. It used to hit in early January, beginning with a slight cold, and advancing to bad sinusitis, bronchitis etc. owing to the onset of cold weather and forced air heating. Well, we had extremely cold weather in early December. Since I recovered from that siege, we have suffered the snowiest month in our history. It's been most frustrating, trying to get my walkies in. (Has anyone heard or seen any posts from Larry (Oleg Lego)? He had not posted, to my knowledge, either here or in the diabetes newsgroups for just about as long as my cold lasted. And now, the aioe newsgroups won't download. . .another anomaly! Ah, well, there is always Google.) Pat Durkin wrote, in <gjkban$8qk$1@news.albasani.net> on Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:13:52 -0600: > And now, the aioe newsgroups > won't download. . .another anomaly! Ah, well, there is always Google.) aioe has been dead since 12/12. news.motzarella.org and news.albasani.net are both in good order and better in every respect than aioe ever was. Both require registration but that is free. For goodness sake get one of those, not Google. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE On 02 Jan 2009, Nick Spalding wrote > Pat Durkin wrote, in <gjkban$8qk$1@news.albasani.net> > on Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:13:52 -0600: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > respect than aioe ever was. Both require registration but that > is free. For goodness sake get one of those, not Google. I second the recommendation for albasani -- been using it for a couple of years now, and have found it does everything I need. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > Pat Durkin wrote, in <gjkban$8qk$1@news.albasani.net> > on Fri, 2 Jan 2009 00:13:52 -0600: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > than aioe ever was. Both require registration but that is free. For > goodness sake get one of those, not Google. As you can see, I am already on albasani. And, except for the occasional down time, it is adequate, though I haven't found the diabetes newsgroups. (Oops! check that. I just remembered I hadn't examined the last few issues of the "new newsgroups" on aioe. So the diabetes NGs are there.) Now, having checked them for Oleg's name, I see he has not posted there, nor here in AUE. Of course, it could be financial, but I expect something more like health issues. And he had been doing so great in his blood readings, diet and weight. > And now, the > aioe newsgroups won't download. . .another anomaly! Ah, well, there > is always Google.) Try news.albasani.net -- they are fast and quite reliable. The couple of downtimes I have experienced have been very brief, and I use nntp.motzarella.org for a backup. The latter is very reliable but tends to be very slow at times (compared to the speed I'm used to). SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>Happy New Year, >> >And to you and everyone else. I hope it goes on to get better than it >started, for I've spent most of the time since the Saturday before >Christmas with a raging cold and bronchitis which is being very >stubborn. Ah, yes, it's taken me a month to get over something similar, so I sympathise. Apparently "there's a lot of it going around". Hope you recover very soon. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>>Happy New Year, >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >sympathise. Apparently "there's a lot of it going around". Hope you >recover very soon. Thanks. It's now 17 days and I have two days of antibiotics left. I still have snuffles and a bad cough and will have to visit the GP again for the third Monday in succession if it doesn't clear up. We don't have a GP service (yet) at weekends, although for GP-type emergencies, as opposed to A&E-type emergencies (a 999 call), one can phone the local hospital and make an appointment with a GP. We've never tried it. However, although I felt dreadful Christmas Day, it didn't stop me roasting a nice roti of turkey which I had with roast potatoes and a few sprouts. Unfortunately, when I checked through the dozens of packet mixes of sauces and gravy in the cupboard, I found that most of them were cheese or beef or some sort of white sauce, and one lamb. Turkey with lamb gravy is not as bad as it sounds! I've read, incidentally, the comments about "a youth", and I think common usage most places would have that refer to a young male. I don't know much about grammatical terms, but "youth" in such things as "youth hostel" and "youth orchestra" seems more adjectival to me. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >I've read, incidentally, the comments about "a youth", and I think >common usage most places would have that refer to a young male. I >don't know much about grammatical terms, but "youth" in such things as >"youth hostel" and "youth orchestra" seems more adjectival to me. Mmm. References to one single youth is probably, by default and in the absence of further information, male. "The youth of today", though, generally means both sexes. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>I've read, incidentally, the comments about "a youth", and I think >>common usage most places would have that refer to a young male. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >the absence of further information, male. "The youth of today", >though, generally means both sexes. Is no one thinking of this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1V-4boT_ts SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>I've read, incidentally, the comments about "a youth", and I think >>>common usage most places would have that refer to a young male. I [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1V-4boT_ts Is anyone _not_ thinking of it? SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >> I've read, incidentally, the comments about "a youth", and I think >> common usage most places would have that refer to a young male. I >> don't know much about grammatical terms, but "youth" in such things >> as "youth hostel" and "youth orchestra" seems more adjectival to me. And to me, too, Robin. > Mmm. References to one single youth is probably, by default and in > the absence of further information, male. "The youth of today", > though, generally means both sexes. Sure, but.... "the youth" in "the youth of today" is still adjectival, I think. (That, or it's a shorter way of saying "the young people.") And speaking of youth: Yesterday, I had brunch with several female friends. We're all 65-ish, having graduated together from high school in 1961, and were, it seemed, the liveliest group in the restaurant. One man, who looked close to 80, came over to our table and suggested to one of us (the liveliest, and the youngest looking) that she calm down. He was just kidding, though. His smiles and laughter showed that. SignatureMaria C. > I've read, incidentally, the comments about "a youth", and I think > common usage most places would have that refer to a young male. I > don't know much about grammatical terms, but "youth" in such things as > "youth hostel" and "youth orchestra" seems more adjectival to me. There is also "our youth" which my father would use to refer to his younger brother; and "youth" as a form of address: as in "hey, youth" (as a change from "surree") which was common among my father and his friends. Did your father use the same terms, Robin? My Dad was from Sutton-in-Ashfield, so not so far from Nottingham, but perhaps far enough for different terms. Fran Fran >> I've read, incidentally, the comments about "a youth", and I think >> common usage most places would have that refer to a young male. I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > (as a change from "surree") which was common among my father and his > friends. I've not heard that one, but "our xxx" was common in the NW for "xxx who is a relation of mine". I'm always surprised how many people who talk about music of the 90s seem to be related to someone called Kelly. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu >I've not heard that one, but "our xxx" was common in the NW for "xxx who >is a relation of mine". "our xxx" was seen in a slightly modified form in the TV singing contest parody: Britain's Got the Pop Factor ...and Possibly a New Celebrity Jesus Christ Soapstar Superstar Strictly on Ice <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain%27s_Got_the_Pop_Factor..._and_Possibly_a_Ne w_Celebrity_Jesus_Christ_Soapstar_Superstar_Strictly_On_Ice> or http://tinyurl.com/3rs6v6 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1298641/ One of the contestants is R Wayne. His grandmother is R Gran, or to R Wayne's mother, R Mum. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) BrE filted: >>I've not heard that one, but "our xxx" was common in the NW for "xxx who >>is a relation of mine". [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >One of the contestants is R Wayne. His grandmother is R Gran, or to R Wayne's >mother, R Mum. If I remember "The Caves of Steel" correctly, that indicates that they're all robots....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >BrE filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >If I remember "The Caves of Steel" correctly, that indicates that they're all >robots....r Ah yes. Well remembered. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>BrE filted: >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Ah yes. Well remembered. R Daneel will be along in a moment to ask why you didn't say "rare". SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >I've not heard that one, but "our xxx" was common in the NW for "xxx who >is a relation of mine". There are four people in my extended family named "Eric", and four named "Tina" or "Christina". (Coincidentally, one of the Erics and one of the Tinas are brother and sister, and both are in the USAF.) Back when there were only two Tinas, we could say "our Tina" and "Jon's Tina", where "our Tina" is the one actually related to us and "Jon's Tina" is the one who married "Larry's Jon". (Just to add to the fun, "our Tina" is actually a Christina, although she almost never uses that name, and there's a younger Christina who saves us much confusion by calling herself "Chrissy".) I don't remember how we disambiguate the Erics, beyond the fact that the youngest is still of an age to be called "little Eric", and I think one of the in-laws may be "Erik with a 'k'". We also have two Dianes and I think more than one Lucy now as well. Big families[1] are confusing. -GAWollman [1] At least 59 on that side, as best as I can count, including all living descendants of my maternal grandmother and their spouses, children, adopted children, and step-children. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >> I've read, incidentally, the comments about "a youth", and I think >> common usage most places would have that refer to a young male. I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >(as a change from "surree") which was common among my father and his >friends. I was going to mention that, but thought it might be a very local dialect. I've never heard it anywhere else. In my teens males would say "Eyup, youth" just as someone down here might say "Morning, mate". >Did your father use the same terms, Robin? My Dad was from >Sutton-in-Ashfield, so not so far from Nottingham, but perhaps far >enough for different terms. No he didn't. That was due more to my mother wanting us to "talk proper" than to it not being used. My father's brother was "Stan" to my parents, "Uncle Stan" to me, and "Our Stan" to his wife. It may well be that my parents, each born in 1899, were into their maturity before younger males started addressing each other as "youth", for I have no idea how old the usage is. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >> Every Christmas season, my husband sends cards/letters to two of his >> Army buddies. Mike, who was the Best Man at our wedding, lived in [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >intercepted by a bereaved relative would not be easy to answer, as >they'd only have a few given names to go on. As the recipient every year of a number of cards, letters and so on for the people who lived here a decade ago, I wish everyone put a return address on their envelopes. I can't forward the post as I don't know where the last residents moved to, and I can't return the post to let the senders know. Condolences, Maria. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary > The three buddies were all about the same age, and that tends to make a > person think about his own mortality. Tell me about it. Within the last year and a half or so I learned that the kid next door when I was growing up died about 40 years ago... ...and all of the following died in 2008: a first cousin; I have a photo of him age 3 holding me at my christening, a friend from high school, a friend from college, a friend from work, who I had worked with for 30 years, a friend from our retirement travels, and several people at the golf club. All of the older friends were people I had kept in touch with for decades, and all of the above were about my age, and neatly covered every major period of my life. That makes you think. SignatureJohn Varela Trade OLD lamps for NEW for email > The three buddies were all about the same age, and that tends to make a > person think about his own mortality. My best friend from boyhood placed bets with our acquaintances that I would not live to 18. When I made it to 18, he doubled the bets that I would not make it to 21. When I was 21, he doubled the bets again that I would not make it 25. By the time I was 25 we had lost touch. He died 5 years ago. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com Bush's third term begins Jan. 20th with an invocation by Rick Warren. Obama: No hope; No change; More of the Same. |
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