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More units of measure: acres

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Mark Brader - 27 Dec 2008 20:45 GMT
As everyone knows,

  1 yard = 3 feet
  1 rod[A] = 5.5 yards = 16.5 feet
  1 chain[B,C] = 4 rods = 22 yards = 66 feet
  1 furlong = 10 chains = 40 rods = 220 yards = 660 feet
  1 mile = 8 furlongs = 80 chains = 320 rods = 1760 yards = 5280 feet

  1 acre = 1/640 mile² = 1/10 furlong² = 10 chain² = 4840 yd² = 43560 ft²

  [A] Also called a pole or perch
  [B] Also equal to 100 links.
  [C] This is also called Gunter's chain.  Another unit called
      a chain is equal to 100 feet, but that's not important now.

So a field that is 1 chain wide by 1 furlong long has an area of
1 acre.  Remembering that the "fur" in "furlong" is a furrow, it
should be clear that this is the origin of this unit.

However, I recently came across a couple of older passages (details
below), where "acre" seemed to be being used as a unit of length.
I looked at Russ Rowlett's web site and there was nothing about it
there.  I then looked at the OED, where the word "acre" was included
in the very first fascicle to be published:

# 3. As a lineal measure: an "acre length", 40 poles or a furlong
# (i.e. furrow-length); an "acre breadth", 4 poles or 22 yards.
# Obs. or dial.

In other words, by this usage, which was already obsolete (or dialect)
in 1884 when this entry was written, an acre (of) breadth is a chain,
and an acre (of) length is a furlong.  The last cite in the OED is
from 1809.

But that was not consistent with the way I had just seen them used.
While the exact meaning is unclear (and I'll go into the possibilities
in detail below), it is clear that the unit in question is somewhere
around 3 or 4 chains.

My source was letters quoted in the 3-volume work "Men and Meridians:
The History of Surveying and Mapping in Canada", written by Don
W. Thompson and published in 1966-69 by the Canadian government's
Department of Energy, Mines and Resources.

The first passage, on page 199, is from a letter written by Miles
Macdonell, first governor of the Red River colony, to Lord Selkirk,
who sponsored the colony, apparently on 1813-07-17 (in one place
the book gives the date as 1883, but this makes no sense and must
be a typo; the book contains an annoyingly large number of things
that "must be typos").  Ellipses and square brackets as in the book.

|   ...I have since laid out lots of 100 acres, of 4 acres front
|   on the river, according to the annexed rough sketch...
|   The farms of Lower Canada are only 3 acres front, and the
|   first settlers in Upper Canada had only the same, but they
|   found it afterwards too narrow, which induced me to add one
|   acre additional to the breadth of our lots here.  This [is]
|   sufficient for any farmer...

(The Red River colony, Lower Canada, and Upper Canada correspond
respectively to the first-colonized parts of today's Manitoba,
Quebec, and Ontario.)

Okay, what does that mean?  When these parts of Canada were surveyed
into lots for settlers, they were elongated rectangular lots (rather
than the square lots used in western Canada and much of the US)
-- but not as elongated as 4 x 250 chains, which is what it would
mean if "4 acres front" was the "4 acres breadth" of the OED entry.

Could the letter be using the concept that an "acre" in this context
represents a rectangle of a specific shape as well as a specific
size?  I have never heard of such a thing.

The corresponding French unit for area at this time was the arpent,
and according to context this name was also used for a linear unit.
Linearly it was equal to 191.838 feet or 2.90664 chains; as an area
unit it was the square of this, or 0.84485 acre.  Is it possible
that this in Canada this notion was copied back into British units
and an "acre" of linear measure meant the *side of a square* whose
area was 1 acre?  This seems even less likely to me, as it would not
fit conveniently with *any* other units -- this "acre" would be equal
to sqrt(10) = 3.162278 chains or 208.7103 feet or 208 feet 8.5+ inches.

Unfortunately, the "annexed rough sketch" is not reproduced in the
book.  Immediately after quoting the letter, the book goes on:

|   Lord Selkirk advocated a more compact type of settlement
|   but this was never established, the river-lot system
|   prevailing.  Thus more than a thousand miles from the
|   St. Lawrence Basin, history repeated itself.  Talon and
|   Colbert had suffered a similar reverse in New France of
|   the 17th century.  By 1870 river lots extended for more
|   than 40 miles along the Red, and along the Assiniboine
|   as far as Portage la Prairie.  Most of the lots were laid
|   out with a 12-chain river frontage but there were later
|   variations all the way from 1 chain to a half-mile in width.

The business about "river lots" and the St. Lawrence Basin is that
when the French owned the colony (under the name Nouvelle France
or New France), they generally surveyed the land there along each
river into long narrow lots with one end on the river, so that
everyone would be able to use it.

Elsewhere the book says in reference to New France that "the average
farm had a frontage of three or more arpents and by [sic] a depth of
thirty or more arpents, but here again there were variations".
Could Macdonnell be thinking of an arpent as a French acre and using
"3 acres front" loosely to mean 3 arpents?  This seems unlikely in a
context calling for precision; I'm sure he wouldn't be using French
units for new surveying, as with the "4 acres front".

Then on page 221 of the book is another letter with a similar
usage, but with interesting detail in addition.  This one is dated
1783-09-11 and was written by Sir Frederick Haldimand, Governor of
Quebec, to his deputy surveyor general, John Collins.  ("Quebec" at
that time was the same area that in 1813 was Upper and Lower Canada.)

|   4. The method of laying out townships of six miles square
|   I consider as the best to be followed, as the people to
|   be settled there are most used to it, and will best answer
|   the proportion of lands I propose to grant to each family,
|   viz: 120 acres, of which six are to be in front, which will
|   make 19 chains in front and 63 chains 25 links in depth, so
|   that every township will have 25 lots in front and 4 chains
|   75 links will remain for roads, with 7 concessions in depth.
|   Fifty-eight links will remain for a road, by which distribution
|   each township will contain 175 lots of 120 acres.

(A "concession" is a row of adjacent elongated rectangular lots with
their short ends along a common pair of parallel lines.)

Note the "of which six".  This really makes it sound as though he's
thinking of an acre as having a specific shape, rather than referring
to acres of area and then, in the same sentence, acres of length.
But he might still really be intending the latter.

It would help if the numbers fitted together, but I can't make them
do so.  Maybe some of them are supposed to be approximate, but he
doesn't hint as to which ones.  He's talking about taking a 6-mile
square township and dividing it into a 7x25 grid of rectangular lots
plus road allowances.  If each lot is exactly 19 x 63.25 chains,
that makes it really 120.175 acres.  An exact 120 acres with 19
chains front would be only 63.16 chains long.

The other thing that isn't clear is the layout of those roads that
there are allowances for.  As there is no diagram of this layout,
all I have to go by is Southern Ontario, which also used townships
and concessions but not so regularly shaped.  One common pattern
had lots of 20 x 100 chains (thus 200 acres) with roads every 100 chains,
forming a square grid with 5 lots in each square.  But that pattern
doesn't exactly translate to lots of 19 x 63.25 chains.

Haldimand's mention of two different numbers, 4.75 and 0.58 chains,
for road allowances suggest to me that there was allowance for a grid
of roads, north-south and east-west, but with different spacing.
But 19 x 25 is 475 chains, and 63.25 x 7 is 442.75; the difference
between these numbers and 6 miles (480 chains) is respectively 5.00 and
37.25 chains, nothing like the numbers actually mentioned.

Anyway, if we assume that 19 chains is exact, and if "acre in the front"
is meant as a linear unit, then that unit must equal 19/6 chains or
exactly 209 feet.  This is quite close to the sqrt(10) value given above.

The result is that I'm still puzzled, and I wonder if Evan or anyone
can turn up another source that might clarify what exactly these guys
were talking about.
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Robert Bannister - 27 Dec 2008 22:48 GMT
> So a field that is 1 chain wide by 1 furlong long has an area of
> 1 acre.  Remembering that the "fur" in "furlong" is a furrow, it
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> # (i.e. furrow-length); an "acre breadth", 4 poles or 22 yards.
> # Obs. or dial.

> Could the letter be using the concept that an "acre" in this context
> represents a rectangle of a specific shape as well as a specific
> size?  I have never heard of such a thing.

Nor me. [snip]

> The corresponding French unit for area at this time was the arpent,
> and according to context this name was also used for a linear unit.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> fit conveniently with *any* other units -- this "acre" would be equal
> to sqrt(10) = 3.162278 chains or 208.7103 feet or 208 feet 8.5+ inches.

[snip]
> The result is that I'm still puzzled, and I wonder if Evan or anyone
> can turn up another source that might clarify what exactly these guys
> were talking about.

The word "acre" is almost certainly connected with the German word
"Acker" which means arable field. Fields and measurements were variable
in size for a very long time, so even though the "standard" villein's
strip in medieval times was a furrow by a chain, this was likely to vary
by region. German farmers measured their land in "Morgen" (perhaps the
amount of land they could plough in a morning) and this had different
regional sizes until quite recently. The French "arpent" also had
regional variations.

I think you idea that they imagined the acre as a "standard" rectangular
block makes sense, but don't expect the shape or even the size of the
acre to the same in every place. Measurements were certainly not
standard at the time North America was settled - this is one reason why
US and Imperial measurements are different - I'm not sure when official
standards came into being, but I'd have guessed the early 1800s.
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Rob Bannister

Garrett Wollman - 28 Dec 2008 00:18 GMT
>Measurements were certainly not standard at the time North America
>was settled - this is one reason why US and Imperial measurements are
>different - I'm not sure when official standards came into being, but
>I'd have guessed the early 1800s.

At least a century earlier, actually.

Imperial measure was a wholesale replacement of the existing (still
used in the United States) standards, and was introduced in 1824.  The
(now U.S.)  dry gallon was defined by Parliament in 1696; the
U.S. fluid gallon was standardized in 1707.  The statute mile was
defined in 1592.  (All per Russ Rowlett.)

-GAWollman

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J. J. Lodder - 01 Jan 2009 14:22 GMT
> The word "acre" is almost certainly connected with the German word
> "Acker" which means arable field. Fields and measurements were variable
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> regional sizes until quite recently. The French "arpent" also had
> regional variations.

The 'morgen' is not specifically German, also Dutch.
It is still present in placenames like '110 morgen polder'
obviously a 'polder' with a size of '110 morgen',

Jan
Prai Jei - 27 Dec 2008 23:21 GMT
Mark Brader set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:

> Could the letter be using the concept that an "acre" in this context
> represents a rectangle of a specific shape as well as a specific
> size?  I have never heard of such a thing.

Yes - this is the original acre, 1 furlong x 1 chain giving a rectangle with
a 10:1 aspect ratio. It was the area that could be expected to be ploughed
in one working day with a horse-drawn plough, and it would have this shape
because the "furrow-long" would indeed be the length of a furrow.

An "acre length" is therefore the same as a furlong, though I've never heard
it called such. Similarly an acre breadth would be the same as a chain.
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Mark Brader - 28 Dec 2008 01:16 GMT
> > Could the letter be using the concept that an "acre" in this context
> > represents a rectangle of a specific shape as well as a specific
> > size?  I have never heard of such a thing.

> Yes - this is the original acre, 1 furlong x 1 chain giving a rectangle with
> a 10:1 aspect ratio. ...
> An "acre length" is therefore the same as a furlong, though I've never heard
> it called such. Similarly an acre breadth would be the same as a chain.

I know it was a long message, but it would be helpful to read *all*
of it before responding.
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Paul Wolff - 27 Dec 2008 23:22 GMT
>As everyone knows,
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>in detail below), it is clear that the unit in question is somewhere
>around 3 or 4 chains.

I haven't an answer but some comment, and I'll put it all in one place,
for ease of reading.

That the acre is one chain by one furrow's length is old stuff.  My
comment is that long narrow plots are very old, and not only for fields,
but also for town development plots.  Medieval English town planning
allocated strips of land with narrow road frontages and long dimensions
away from the highway, so that a township might be formed yet the
tenants still have enough land.  There may be useful information to be
picked up by following the conventions applied to these burgage plots.

Here's an extract of the kind of thing available:

       Grenville [1] defines a burgage plot as a long narrow plot of
       land running at right angles from the street frontage in a town
       (p198) . She reports on p161 that there is archaeological
       evidence from excavations in Chester of the existence of such
       plots in the 12th and 13th centuries but not the 10th, while
       some plots in Coppergate at York and at Worcester were laid out
       in the 10th century. Post conquest town charters specified the
       dimensions of burgage plots as 3 or 3.5 perches (16 or 18
       metres) by 12 perches (60 metres) which amounts to about one
       quarter of an acre and until the 13th century, at least, this
       was  the primary unit of rentable property though subdivision of
       these units for subletting was becoming commonplace. The
       capacity to build parallel to the road in a town indicated
       access to an undivided burgage plot or perhaps acquisition of
       more than one ([1] p165).

       The Bishop of Salisbury in 1225 laid out the new town of
       Salisbury with uniform burgage plots of size 3 perches by 7
       perches whereas at Sherborne in Dorset three burgage plot sizes
       were used in 1227-28:

       4 by 20 perches,  4 by 24 perches and 2 by 4 perches, according
       to the size of tenement, from Hoskins [14] p90.

<http://www.northcravenhistoricalresearch.co.uk/Outreach/burgagefinds.doc

4 perches are a chain; 4 by 20 perches are half an acre.

It could be an accepted convention, not needing to be spelled out, that
these areas were defined by shape as well as by the product length x
width.

If I do some sums based on Haldimand I get the same results concerning
plot dimensions and what is left for the roads.  I guess this isn't very
helpful.

>My source was letters quoted in the 3-volume work "Men and Meridians:
>The History of Surveying and Mapping in Canada", written by Don
[quoted text clipped - 123 lines]
>can turn up another source that might clarify what exactly these guys
>were talking about.

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Paul

Mark Brader - 28 Dec 2008 01:26 GMT
> My comment is that long narrow plots are very old, and not only for
> fields, but also for town development plots.

My house is built on one, although it's in a subdivision that dates
only to the 1920s.  In fact, it's just occurred to me that if I express
the dimensions of the lot in chains I get some interesting numbers.
The width is just a few inches under 1/3 chain, and while the lot is
not perfectly rectangular, a length of 2½ chains would fall in between
that of the long edge and of the edge opposite.  (The area of the lot,
therefore, is almost exactly 1/12 of an acre.)
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Robin Bignall - 28 Dec 2008 22:12 GMT
>My
>comment is that long narrow plots are very old, and not only for fields,
>but also for town development plots.

That was true at least up to the 1960s, and possibly even today, for
"greenfield" sites, where the architect has virgin territory at his
finger tips.  But for "brownfield" sites, or those places where an old
house with a large garden has been developed, the idea seems to be to
cram as many dwelling units on it as possible, with parking spaces and
little if any space for a garden.
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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 29 Dec 2008 05:02 GMT
> As everyone knows,
...

Heh heh.

> |   4. The method of laying out townships of six miles square
> |   I consider as the best to be followed, as the people to
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> to acres of area and then, in the same sentence, acres of length.
> But he might still really be intending the latter.
...

Without context, if I saw "120 acres, of which six are to be in
front", I'd take it to mean that the acres are squares and the plots
are six sides-of-a-square by twenty.  I'm not saying I've ever seen
such a system, or indeed that I've ever known anything about land
division except how many 40-acres-and-a-mule there are in a square
mile.  But that's what I'd expect it to mean, irrational as it may
seem.

> Anyway, if we assume that 19 chains is exact, and if "acre in the front"
> is meant as a linear unit, then that unit must equal 19/6 chains or
> exactly 209 feet.  This is quite close to the sqrt(10) value given above.
...

Like that.

--
Jerry Friedman
jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 29 Dec 2008 05:33 GMT
...

> Anyway, if we assume that 19 chains is exact, and if "acre in the front"
> is meant as a linear unit, then that unit must equal 19/6 chains or
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> can turn up another source that might clarify what exactly these guys
> were talking about.

A search of Google Books for "acres wide" will turn up a lot of hits
in which "acre" is a linear unit, and "acres long" probably will too.
By digging into them, you might be able to tell in some cases what the
unit equaled or equals.  This one,

http://books.google.com/books?id=y1KekDaaKKAC&pg=PA137

with your friend Haldimand, looks very promising: lots four or six or
ten square acres wide, extending seven miles back from the Detroit
River.  I'd take that to mean that the acres are in the shape of
squares and the lots are four etc. squares wide.

--
Jerry Friedman
Mark Brader - 23 Jan 2009 20:12 GMT
Last month, I (Mark Brader) asked:
> > Anyway, if we assume that 19 chains is exact, and if "acre in the front"
> > is meant as a linear unit, then that unit must equal 19/6 chains or
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > can turn up another source that might clarify what exactly these guys
> > were talking about.

Jerry Friedman tried:
> A search of Google Books for "acres wide" will turn up a lot of hits
> in which "acre" is a linear unit, and "acres long" probably will too.

> By digging into them, you might be able to tell in some cases what the
> unit equaled or equals.

Well, it wasn't that easy.  The trouble with searching on these and
similar phrases is that when you find a hit, they assume you know what
unit they're using!  It's hard to tell whether it's the British usage
where an "acre" of breadth is 1 chain, or the usage I was asking about.
One notable example I came across is from a US federal law of 1824:

  "...to cause the lands thus situated, to be surveyed in tracts of two
  acres in width, fronting on any river, bayou, lake, or water-course,
  and running back the depth of forty acres..."

I ended up having to go to two libraries to see a couple of the Google
Books snippets in context.  I thought I might as well report back:
Jerry's interpretation was right.

> This one,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> River.  I'd take that to mean that the acres are in the shape of
> squares and the lots are four etc. squares wide.

This one is anomalous.  I found some other sources -- both British
and American -- using "square acres" as a synonym for the ordinary
acre of area, but using it as a length is remarkable.  However,
Jerry's interpretation turns out to be correct.  "Acre" was used in
North America as a linear unit equal to the length of one side of an
square of area 1 acre.  I found an article written in 1980 that adds,
"on occasion it is still used by very old men in rural Ontario."

(The article is not saying that this is specifically an Ontario usage;
its subject matter is confined to Ontario.)

Unfortunately, the same passage contains an incorrect numerical value
for the unit in both feet and chains, which somewhat interferes with
its credibility!

Anyway, I'll be sending my information along to the OED when I have it
consolidated.  Thanks for getting me started, Jerry, even if it did
turn out to be harder than you suggested.
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Jonathan Morton - 23 Jan 2009 21:43 GMT
> This one is anomalous.  I found some other sources -- both British
> and American -- using "square acres" as a synonym for the ordinary
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> for the unit in both feet and chains, which somewhat interferes with
> its credibility!

Yes, the square root of 4840 doesn't seem to help much at all. I always
thought an acre was a chain x a furlong (i.e. 22x220). Apologies if this has
been done in this thread earlier.

Regards

Jonathan
Mark Brader - 23 Jan 2009 23:05 GMT
Jonathan Morton:
> I always thought an acre was a chain x a furlong (i.e. 22x220).
> Apologies if this has been done in this thread earlier.

Yes, I mentioned that at the start of the thread.
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Hatunen - 23 Jan 2009 22:50 GMT
>This one is anomalous.  I found some other sources -- both British
>and American -- using "square acres" as a synonym for the ordinary
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>square of area 1 acre.  I found an article written in 1980 that adds,
>"on occasion it is still used by very old men in rural Ontario."

I find that curious, unless an area of one acre was something
other at one time; the square root of 43 560 square feet is
208.7103236.. feet, a quantity that would have been virtually
unmeasurable in olden times.

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jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 23 Jan 2009 23:08 GMT
> >This one is anomalous.  I found some other sources -- both British
> >and American -- using "square acres" as a synonym for the ordinary
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> 208.7103236.. feet, a quantity that would have been virtually
> unmeasurable in olden times.

They may have approximated.  Mark's original question was about a
meaning of "acre" as 19/6 chains or 209 feet.  In the one I quoted
after you posted, the author is explicitly not too concerned with
accuracy.  He's advising someone on the cost of dividing up his land
into fields for growing sugar cane, so it doesn't matter if one field
is few feet longer than another.

--
Jerry Friedman
Mark Brader - 23 Jan 2009 23:13 GMT
Mark Brader:
>> "Acre" was used in North America as a linear unit equal to the
>> length of one side of an square of area 1 acre.

Dave Hatunen:
> I find that curious, unless an area of one acre was something
> other at one time; the square root of 43 560 square feet is
> 208.7103236.. feet, a quantity that would have been virtually
> unmeasurable in olden times.

I find that remark curious.  We're talking about the late 18th and
the 19th century.  Four or at most five significant digits would
have been the limit of accuracy for their surveys, so all they
needed to know was that it was 208.7 or 208.71 feet.  And that's a
calculation that could have been done as soon as decimal numbers
were available, although better *ways* to do it were developed later
(e.g. by Newton).
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Hatunen - 24 Jan 2009 20:53 GMT
>Mark Brader:
>>> "Acre" was used in North America as a linear unit equal to the
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>were available, although better *ways* to do it were developed later
>(e.g. by Newton).

I'm well aware of their ability to measure to such precision, but
my curiousness is to wonder why they would have picked an
irrational number in the first place. All other units seem to
come out to even numbers of other units, or to rational fractions
thereof.

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Mark Brader - 24 Jan 2009 22:44 GMT
Mark Brader:
>>>> "Acre" was used in North America as a linear unit equal to the
>>>> length of one side of an square of area 1 acre.

Dave Hatunen:
>>> I find that curious... the square root of 43 560 square feet is
>>> 208.7103236.. feet, a quantity that would have been virtually
>>> unmeasurable in olden times.

Mark Brader:
>> I find that remark curious.  We're talking about the late 18th and
>> the 19th century.  Four or at most five significant digits would
>> have been the limit of accuracy for their surveys... [and easily
>> calculated].

Dave Hatunen:
> I'm well aware of their ability to measure to such precision, but
> my curiousness is to wonder why they would have picked an
> irrational number in the first place.

Oh, that.  That was why *I* found it hard to believe too.  But
there was the precedent of several other units that were used both
as linear and as area units, so I guess they thought it made sense
to have one more.

Notably, the French analog of the acre was the arpent.  It was used
extensively in Quebec before the British takeover, and therefore
remains in use today for land surveyed then.  And it was both a
linear unit equal to about 191.8 feet (or 0.92 linear acre) and
area unit equal to the square of that (or 0.84 acre of area).

Come to think of it, note also that Jerry Friedman found a cite
referring to the linear acre as a unit common in Louisiana -- and
that was another area that used to be French territory.
Signature

Mark Brader, Toronto | "Close your tag and give it a rest, Jason"
msb@vex.net          |                          --FoxTrot (Bill Amend)

My text in this article is in the public domain.

jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 23 Jan 2009 23:03 GMT
> Last month, I (Mark Brader) asked:
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> similar phrases is that when you find a hit, they assume you know what
> unit they're using!

I don't think I said it would be easy.  I didn't mean "digging" to
imply a rose garden.

> It's hard to tell whether it's the British usage
> where an "acre" of breadth is 1 chain, or the usage I was asking about.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Books snippets in context.  I thought I might as well report back:
> Jerry's interpretation was right.

Not to cavil, but I didn't interpret that passage, and if you mean the
possibility that "acre" could mean 66 sqrt(10) feet, you suggested it
in your original post and I just thought it was likely.

> > This one,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> This one is anomalous.

But interesting, since it seems to suggest a derivation: "square
acres" (one-acre plots of square shape) -> "square acres" (linear
measure, since with either meaning you could say a piece of land was
so many square acres wide) -> "acres" (linear measure equal to the
side of that square).  Not that that's necessarily what happened.

> I found some other sources -- both British
> and American -- using "square acres" as a synonym for the ordinary
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> square of area 1 acre.  I found an article written in 1980 that adds,
> "on occasion it is still used by very old men in rural Ontario."

Very interesting.

> (The article is not saying that this is specifically an Ontario usage;
> its subject matter is confined to Ontario.)
>
> Unfortunately, the same passage contains an incorrect numerical value
> for the unit in both feet and chains, which somewhat interferes with
> its credibility!

Well...

> Anyway, I'll be sending my information along to the OED when I have it
> consolidated.  Thanks for getting me started, Jerry, even if it did
> turn out to be harder than you suggested.

I'm glad I helped, even if only a little.

I still think the Louisiana reference I found is unequivocal.  It has
4 3/4 acres equaling "about 1000 feet."  If it had said "exactly 1000
feet," it would have been off by less than 2 feet.

http://books.google.com/books?id=o-coAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA158

Right column, about 2/3 of the way down, with enough context on that
page, for once.

--
Jerry Friedman
Mark Brader - 23 Jan 2009 23:23 GMT
Jerry Friedman:
> Not to cavil, but I didn't interpret that passage,

Well, you suggested a likely interpretation.

> you suggested it in your original post and I just thought it was likely.

I mentioned it, but said I thought it was very unlikely!

> ... it seems to suggest a derivation: "square
> acres" (one-acre plots of square shape) -> "square acres" (linear
> measure, since with either meaning you could say a piece of land was
> so many square acres wide) -> "acres" (linear measure equal to the
> side of that square).  Not that that's necessarily what happened.

I agree.

> I still think the Louisiana reference I found is unequivocal.  It has
> 4 3/4 acres equaling "about 1000 feet."  If it had said "exactly 1000
> feet," it would have been off by less than 2 feet.

2 feet in the length of an "acre", about 9 feet for the total distance.
Anyway, it's unequivocal as to the approximate value, but I already
had that: the Haldimand letter I quoted seems to say that 6 linear acres
equals 19 chains.  That gives a linear acre that disagrees from sqrt(10)
by only about 3.5 inches.

> http://books.google.com/books?id=o-coAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA158
>
> Right column, about 2/3 of the way down, with enough context on that
> page, for once.

Thanks.
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My text in this article is in the public domain.

jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 29 Dec 2008 05:40 GMT
...

> However, I recently came across a couple of older passages (details
> below), where "acre" seemed to be being used as a unit of length.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> # (i.e. furrow-length); an "acre breadth", 4 poles or 22 yards.
> # Obs. or dial.
...
> Anyway, if we assume that 19 chains is exact, and if "acre in the front"
> is meant as a linear unit, then that unit must equal 19/6 chains or
> exactly 209 feet.  This is quite close to the sqrt(10) value given above.
...

http://books.google.com/books?id=o-coAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA158&dq="acres+wide"

"Using acres for lineal measure, as we so commonly do in
Louisiana" (in 1889), 4 3/4 acres is about 1000 feet.

Should we alert Jesse Sheidlower?

--
Jerry Friedman
Mike Lyle - 29 Dec 2008 21:48 GMT
> ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Should we alert Jesse Sheidlower?

Not wholly irrelevantly, colonial authorities did sometimes mark
"unexploited" land off in regular rectangles for settlement. I think we
had such blocks in parts of Australia, though in the bush the linear
unit was more likely to be the mile. If I remember, one of my cousins'
property is like that. I was struck in Libya by the way some
agricultural areas had been set out in neat Fascist square, or maybe
oblong, smallholdings during the Italian occupation: each unit contained
a house and was bounded by straight roads, or tracks. The authors of
that system would conveniently have conceived of its acres in standard
dimensions, so that a standard rectangular plot could well have been
seen as "X by Y acres".

Signature

Mike.

Mark Brader - 31 Dec 2008 05:38 GMT
Jerry Friedman:
> Should we alert Jesse Sheidlower?

I was planning to email the OED after this thread ran down.
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Mike Barnes - 31 Dec 2008 08:20 GMT
In alt.usage.english, jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
>Should we alert Jesse Sheidlower?

I think you've just done that.

Signature

Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 31 Dec 2008 11:17 GMT
>In alt.usage.english, jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
>>Should we alert Jesse Sheidlower?
>
>I think you've just done that.

I think I recall JS suggesting that people use the OED submissions email
address rather than contacting him.

   oed3@oup.com

http://dictionary.oed.com/readers/

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Mike Barnes - 31 Dec 2008 11:55 GMT
In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:

>>In alt.usage.english, jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>Should we alert Jesse Sheidlower?
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>http://dictionary.oed.com/readers/

I also recall him saying something recently that suggested that any aue
postings containing his name were automatically brought to his
attention. I forget the exact words he used but I got the impression
that he used a service that looked for his name rather more widely than
just in aue. That would be a useful service for someone in a prominent
position and having an unusual name.

Signature

Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 31 Dec 2008 13:14 GMT
>In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>just in aue. That would be a useful service for someone in a prominent
>position and having an unusual name.

Yes. I think I recall that.

The question is whether to channel submissions via JS or via the advertised
submissions email address. There is an obvious attraction in dealing with a
known individual but there are presumably more people available to receive
submissions via the email address.

As JS's bailiwick is North America it would seem appropriate to limit
submissions via him to those where North American origin or usage is
pertinent.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

jerry_friedman@yahoo.com - 01 Jan 2009 01:10 GMT
> In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>
> >>In alt.usage.english, jerry_fried...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >>>Should we alert Jesse Sheidlower?
>
> >>I think you've just done that.

I might have, but I'm not sure.

> >I think I recall JS suggesting that people use the OED submissions email
> >address rather than contacting him.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> just in aue. That would be a useful service for someone in a prominent
> position and having an unusual name.

In September, Evan suggested that we add "attn Jesse Sheidlower" to
posts with antedatings.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usage.english/browse_thread/thread/6d86bd8a7e
add814/18e27123571dfb55?lnk=gst&q=attn+Jesse+Sheidlower#18e27123571dfb55


or <http://tinyurl.com/8p73lw>.  JS responded to the first couple, but
hasn't since.  Looking at that post of his, I saw what might be the
one that Mike is referring to, which I'll copy in its entirety.

"One could also send e-mail to oed3@oup.com; indeed, one could
just forward a newsgroup post to that address. I'd hope that
isn't too much effort for someone who's already done some
database searching and bothered to type up the results for
a.u.e."

JS responded to the first couple of posts with the "attn" message, but
hasn't responded since.  I think I'll forward my antedating or two to
that address, just to make sure.

Also, he said that the OED staff will probably find antedatings
themselves if they're in the major databases, though they still
appreciate our sending them.  Something like this meaning of "acre"
that Mark has found seems more useful, since you can't automatically
search for senses you don't know.  Not yet, anyway.

--
Jerry Friedman
Jesse Sheidlower - 01 Jan 2009 21:36 GMT
>> In alt.usage.english, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>JS responded to the first couple of posts with the "attn" message, but
>hasn't responded since.

Mainly because most of those since have been quite
straightforward, and I figured you (pl.) would know that I'm
probably picking them up, but that it wasn't necessary for me
to say "Thanks, got it" every time.

> I think I'll forward my antedating or two to
>that address, just to make sure.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>that Mark has found seems more useful, since you can't automatically
>search for senses you don't know.  Not yet, anyway.

Yes, a new meaning (or a missed older meaning) is generally
something we'd very much like to know about. Indeed, in the
last few years the focus of the OED's reading program(me)s has
shifted from supplying evidence in general--which can now
usually be better done by means of one of the major
databases--to identifying new senses or nuances or uses of
existing terms, which (so far, and in the foreseeable future)
cannot readily be done automatically.

Jesse Sheidlower
OED
JimboCat - 02 Jan 2009 20:28 GMT
> As everyone knows,
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> However, I recently came across a couple of older passages (details
> below), where "acre" seemed to be being used as a unit of length.

This issue of using the word "acre" to denote a length rather than an
area may have its converse. Or not...

On page 318 of "Maps of Time (An Introduction to Big History)" by
David Christian, the "megameter" is quite curiously defined as 100,000
square kilometers. The previous page includes a table using megameters
as units of area lifted from an article in the journal "Social Science
Research" published in 1978.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Bs_sLdKGS5gC&pg=PA318&lpg=PA318&dq=maps+of+time
+megameter&source=bl&ots=yE6O_hzvET&sig=fNYkRy3N_RKN0_49MEMpDATold0&hl=en&sa=X&o
i=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result


No other trace of such a use of the word "megameter" has yielded to my
admittedly weak google-fu. What seem to me like *real* meanings for
the word abound, however. These include such obvious usages as one
million meters, several very imposing measuring devices, others
measuring very large values of something or other, the square
megameter (1,000,000 square km), etcetera.

Note that I have discerned a number of quite definite howlers in this
book, though its main problem is that it fails to retain my interest
-- I've been reading it for months but just can't seem to sustain the
effort long enough to get to the last page...

I am pretty certain the solution to the "megameter" problem is simply
a pair of errors: he means "square megameter" and he also means
"(1,000,000 square km)". As a quick feasibility check, I find
Wikipedia claiming the Roman Empire covered 5,000,000 km^2 where
Christian's table gives 4.0 "megameters" in the same period. Closely
matched.

Not a usage question after all: just another error by another
insufficiently careful author.

Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
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