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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009liberal parents; liberal views
Hello, If I had a pair of liberal parents, can I write "My parents have liberal views on my life" to mean that "my parents respect my opinions and choices"? Someone doubted my use of "liberal views." As a still-not-very-advanced learner of English, I am also not sure about my sentence. I would like your comments. Regards Tacia In message <768bcd45-6174-4f5f-ba00-42a62d048a16@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, Tacia <outofdejavu@gmail.com> writes >Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Regards >Tacia It seems OK to me. An alternative might be "My parents take a liberal view about my lifestyle". Slight differences, same meaning.  SignatureIan. On 12月28日, 下午11時10分, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote: > In message > <768bcd45-6174-4f5f-ba00-42a62d048...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > >Someone doubted my use of "liberal views." I should add her comments on my sentence. She said: In Britain and America, "liberal views" has strong political and social connotations. "liberal views" is pertinent to abortion, cohabitation, and religion and not pertinent to democratic parenting and parents' respects to their child(ren). Hmm... :-| > >I would like your comments. I am sure I made a mistake. I should write "I would like to have your comments"... > It seems OK to me. An alternative might be "My parents take a liberal > view about my lifestyle". Slight differences, same meaning. > -- > Ian. Thanks! > On 12月28日, 下午11時10分, Ian Jackson > <ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I am sure I made a mistake. I should write "I would like to have your > comments"... No need to expand on "I would like your comments." Your correction would not be wrong, but your first statement is perfectly idiomatic. (Oh, I suppose in BrE, one might say "I should like. . .") On 28 Dec 2008, Tacia wrote > On 12$B7n(B28$BF|(B, $B2<8a(B11$B;~(B10$BJ,(B, Ian > Jackson [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > to abortion, cohabitation, and religion and not pertinent to > democratic parenting and parents' respects to their child(ren). The phrase is probably most often applied to socio-political issues, but its meaning is perfectly understandable when applied to parenting styles. To say it's "not pertinent" to parenting is, in my view, simply wrong -- it's use isn't that restricted. > Hmm... :-| > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> liberal view about my lifestyle". Slight differences, same >> meaning. -- I agree with Ian, except that "take a liberal view of my lifestyle" would be more idiomatic to me than "about my lifestyle".. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed On 28 Dec 2008, HVS wrote > The phrase is probably most often applied to socio-political > issues, but its meaning is perfectly understandable when applied > to parenting styles. To say it's "not pertinent" to parenting > is, in my view, simply wrong -- it's use Damn. "...its use..." SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > I should add her comments on my sentence. She said: In Britain and > America, "liberal views" has strong political and social connotations. > "liberal views" is pertinent to abortion, cohabitation, and religion and > not pertinent to democratic parenting and parents' respects to their > child(ren). In America 'liberal' is indeed very politically charged. In Britain it is entirely neutral unless capitalised (we have a Liberal Democratic party, a descendant of the Liberal Party which governed for much of the nineteenth century, Liberal and Conservative started as attitudes to the reform of the Corn Laws). In practice there are liberal and conservative wings to both our Labour and Conservative parties. To a right-wing American 'liberal' is an insult, almost a swear-word. In Britain it is quite possible to be liberal in social matters, conservative in fiscal matters and liberal in theology: or any other combination! So your friend is half right (wrong about the British bit). IMO. >> I should add her comments on my sentence. She said: In Britain and >> America, "liberal views" has strong political and social [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > liberal and conservative wings to both our Labour and Conservative > parties. > .....To a right-wing American 'liberal' is an insult, almost a > swear-word. In Britain it is quite possible to be liberal in social > matters, conservative in fiscal matters and liberal in theology: or > any other combination! So your friend is half right (wrong about the > British bit). IMO. As a political conservative ("right-winger"; Republican), "liberal" is not necessarily an insult to me. Context is all. That is: In some matters, I am very conservative. In others, I'm very liberal. Here, you can find several definitions of "liberal": http://www.onelook.com/?w=liberal&ls=a Note this def: /noun/ "a person who favors an economic theory of laissez-faire and self-regulating markets." That's something I am in favor of (with some exceptions). And this one: /adj/ "tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition." That also fits me for the most part. So, to me, it's only in politics that "liberal" is an insult, taken or given. ("Liberal weenie" is, of course, a definite insult.) SignatureMaria C. > > I should add her comments on my sentence. She said: In Britain and > > America, "liberal views" has strong political and social connotations. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > matters and liberal in theology: or any other combination! So your friend > is half right (wrong about the British bit). IMO. Just to confirm. This is a good and accurate account of some quite complex issues. L > On 12月28日, 下午11時10分, Ian Jackson > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > cohabitation, and religion and not pertinent to democratic parenting > and parents' respects to their child(ren). "Liberal views" seems to have much stronger political and social connotations in the USA than we see in Canada. I don't know about the UK. I find your sentence correct but not really idiomatic. Just to confuse you, I'd think that "My parents take a laisse-faire view of my life" might be appropriate. It implies that your parents do not try to direct what you do which I take it is what the orginal sentence means? > In message > <768bcd45-6174-4f5f-ba00-42a62d048a16@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > It seems OK to me. An alternative might be "My parents take a liberal > view about my lifestyle". Slight differences, same meaning. "Liberal parents" sounds to me more as if the parents allow the child to get away with a great deal - not quite laissez faire, but going that way. SignatureRob Bannister >> In message >> <768bcd45-6174-4f5f-ba00-42a62d048a16@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >"Liberal parents" sounds to me more as if the parents allow the child to >get away with a great deal - not quite laissez faire, but going that way. If someone told me that their parents were liberal, I would assume that they meant that their parents didn't impose many restrictions on their children's social life or personal doings. If they said their parents were liberals, then I would assume the reference was to political leanings. When my children were in high school, they both had friends with liberal parents: the children didn't have curfews, weren't required to tell the parents where they were going when going out, and came and went more or less as they pleased. My children's parents were not liberal in this sense. When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word has become a code term in the US. Such is what we take from words used regardless of the meanings of words used. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> In message >>> <768bcd45-6174-4f5f-ba00-42a62d048a16@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >Such is what we take from words used regardless of the meanings of >words used. The OP asked us about "liberal views", not about all this folderol. Try to read the question, Coop. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>>> In message >>>> <768bcd45-6174-4f5f-ba00-42a62d048a16@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > The OP asked us about "liberal views", not about all this folderol. > Try to read the question, Coop. The original began: "If I had a pair of liberal parents", so it's not folderol at all. The sentence "My parents have liberal views on my life" is fairly meaningless to me without a wider context. SignatureRob Bannister >>>>> In message >>>>> <768bcd45-6174-4f5f-ba00-42a62d048a16@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >folderol at all. The sentence "My parents have liberal views on my life" >is fairly meaningless to me without a wider context. Did the wider context you're encouraging help answer the OP's question? It was too broad from the beginning, IMO, and Coop made it broader. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>>>>> In message >>>>>> <768bcd45-6174-4f5f-ba00-42a62d048a16@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > question? It was too broad from the beginning, IMO, and Coop made it > broader. Fairy nuff. My answer to the OP would be "no". SignatureRob Bannister >When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality >is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word >has become a code term in the US. That's new to me. Next time I'm in the US I'll try to remember not to use the word in its BrE sense, then. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality >>is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word >>has become a code term in the US. > >That's new to me. Next time I'm in the US I'll try to remember not to >use the word in its BrE sense, then. New to me, too. I was startled to read it. In the UK "lifestyle" has a very broad meaning. There are lifestyle magazines: http://www.subscription-service.co.uk/lifestyle-cultures-magazines.asp BBC Good Food BBC Top Gear Condé Nast Traveller GQ olive Tatler Vanity Fair Vogue http://www.reviewcentre.com/products2430.html Compare bestselling Lifestyle reviews covering subjects such as health, diet, home, gardening, DIY and local events news such as Yorkshire Life and Cheshire Life. If youre looking for a lifestyle magazine to provide advice and tips or just to keep up-to-date theres sure to be a publication out there that suits your needs, read our reviews to find it. I have occasionally seen religious adherence and practice described as a lifestyle choice. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality >>is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word >>has become a code term in the US. > >That's new to me. Google "gay lifestyle". >Next time I'm in the US I'll try to remember not to >use the word in its BrE sense, then. The "code word" usage is mainly by older people and religious conservatives; people who think that the words "gay" or "homosexual" are "dirty". Younger people generally find homosexuality to be a perfectly normal thing and don't use code words. Gays seem to find the term very annoying, and I don't blame them. It implies that being gay involves everything they do in life. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality >>>is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Google "gay lifestyle". Yes, but it only works in that context. A gay lifestyle involves homosexuality, but "lifestyle" alone doesn't infer homosexuality. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>>>When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality >>>>is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Yes, but it only works in that context. A gay lifestyle involves >homosexuality, but "lifestyle" alone doesn't infer homosexuality. What you hear here is "Well, that's what you'd expect from someone with that lifestyle" or "John and his son don't get along because of his son's lifestyle". That's how "lifestyle" is used as a code. The listener hears it as "gay lifestyle". I suggested Googling "gay lifestyle" because it makes it easy to find the usages. I'm not saying that every usage of "lifestyle" can be taken as a reference to a "gay lifestyle", but it is a prevalent code usage by people who think a code is necessary. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>>When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality >>>>>is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > taken as a reference to a "gay lifestyle", but it is a prevalent code > usage by people who think a code is necessary. Maybe this is pondian, because I agree entirely with Linz. I would never automatically associate "lifestyle" with "gay". If "that lifestyle" means gay, the coding would have to be in the "that" -- IOW "that" would have to refer to something the listener knew already. The same goes for "his son's lifestyle", which, a priori, could be anything likely to attract parental disapproval. SignatureLes (BrE) >>>>>> When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that >>>>>> homosexuality is involved. While sexual preference is not a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > already. The same goes for "his son's lifestyle", which, a priori, > could be anything likely to attract parental disapproval. Well, with all the Brit points as caveats along with his own, I have to say I'm perfectly familiar with the use of "lifestyle" Tony refers to. SignatureMike. [...] >>>>>>> When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that >>>>>>> homosexuality is involved. While sexual preference is not a >>>>>>> "lifestyle", the word has become a code term in the US. >> Maybe this is pondian, because I agree entirely with Linz. I would >> never automatically associate "lifestyle" with "gay". If "that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Well, with all the Brit points as caveats along with his own, I have to > say I'm perfectly familiar with the use of "lifestyle" Tony refers to. Maybe I've been away from the mainland too long. If I were talking to someone about "John" and the person I was talking to said "John doesn't get along with his son because of his lifestyle", I would be tempted to say something like "Oh, does he play the banjo?" (if "John" was conductor of the LSO, for example), or even "What doesn't he approve of?" Without additional indications, it would never occur to me that John's son was gay. In the old days, people used to say "Of course, he's very artistic, you know", accompanied by rolling the eyes in a way that could not be mistaken. We can be glad of one thing. "Lifestyle" is such a slimy, horrid little word that it will be no great loss if the gay euphemisers rape and enslave it. SignatureLes (BrE) "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle_uk@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:gjbh19$jt6 $1@news.motzarella.org: >>>>>>> When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that >>>>>>> homosexuality is involved. While sexual preference is not a [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Well, with all the Brit points as caveats along with his own, I have to > say I'm perfectly familiar with the use of "lifestyle" Tony refers to. I'm familiar with it as well, but I wouldn't say that it's as prevalent as Tony seems to be saying. What is prevalent in that type of usage is that the "lifestyle" in question is one that the speaker doesn't entirely approve of or understand. It may be living off the grid, or gay, or promiscuous, or hand-to-mouth, or lavish. It doesn't matter what it *is*; what matters is what it *isn't*, and that it isn't expected or typical for the area. >I'm familiar with it as well, but I wouldn't say that it's as prevalent >as Tony seems to be saying. Take into consideration that I live in Florida, that Florida has a fair share of older people that can be somewhat disapproving, that there are a lot of church-types and upholders of "family values" in Florida, Floridians voted for legislation that firmly states that marriage should be between a man and a woman, and that Anita Bryant is still remembered fondly by many Floridians. Whenever any of us make a statement about something being prevalent, it's perfectly natural to base their observation on what they hear and observe around them. We really don't have a way to ascertain if the same thing is as prevalent in some distant state or city. I don't think the "code" association is limited to Florida, but it may be less prevalent in other areas. Because it's not limited to Florida, I don't feel obliged to say "In Florida...". I would if the observation was specifically limited to Florida. You all know I live in Florida. It's in my sig. >What is prevalent in that type of usage is >that the "lifestyle" in question is one that the speaker doesn't entirely >approve of or understand. It may be living off the grid, or gay, or >promiscuous, or hand-to-mouth, or lavish. It doesn't matter what it *is*; >what matters is what it *isn't*, and that it isn't expected or typical >for the area. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>>When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality >>>>>is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >his son's lifestyle". That's how "lifestyle" is used as a code. The >listener hears it as "gay lifestyle". Perhaps the context is already given, then. It wouldn't work well here, though. In fact, among my friends, "They don't get on because of his son's lifestyle" would be more likely to point at polyamory or being a goth. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>>>>> When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality >>>>>> is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > his son's lifestyle" would be more likely to point at polyamory or > being a goth. None of my friends have offspring with such interesting lifestyles: not that I know of, anyway. A recent conversation with Son and his friend since babyhood gave me a fascinating update on the lives of their school friends, most of whom seem to have followed a surprisingly conventional path (and are settled with families, unlike these two) given the less than conventional behaviour of many of their parents. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>>>>> When the word "lifestyle" is used, I would assume that homosexuality >>>>>>> is involved. While sexual preference is not a "lifestyle", the word [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >path (and are settled with families, unlike these two) given the less >than conventional behaviour of many of their parents. My daughter, now in her early 40s, attended a small* Catholic high school. She remains "tight" with her high school friends, but is close to few friends from college. She keeps in touch with her high school group on Facebook*. When she was in Orlando recently, we drove around town photographing all of the Catholic grade schools, the high school, and the places in town that she and her group frequented the most. She's putting up these photographs on Facebook so her friends - now scattered across the country - can see the familiar and the changes. *Not really small, but smaller than the public schools in town. Small enough that she knew most of the other students; something that public school grads usually don't. *It may be MySpace. One of the two. I've never looked at either. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> Perhaps the context is already given, then. It wouldn't work well >> here, though. In fact, among my friends, "They don't get on because of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >path (and are settled with families, unlike these two) given the less >than conventional behaviour of many of their parents. We rebel any way we can - sometimes by being less conventional than our parents, sometimes by being more! SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >> In message >> <768bcd45-6174-4f5f-ba00-42a62d048a16@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >"Liberal parents" sounds to me more as if the parents allow the child to >get away with a great deal - not quite laissez faire, but going that way. I agree, but the OP asked about "liberal views". SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I would like your comments. Since liberals tend to be freethinkers in many areas rather than people who are dogmatic in their views, I think you used "liberal views" correctly. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland |
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