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"c." and "s." abbreviations in regards to guns and ships in the 1700s

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prpr - 31 Dec 2008 01:04 GMT
I'm trying to understand the data in the "Guns" column of this chart
of the ships patrolling the 13 colonies in 1735, in the graphic
uploaded here: http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shipsuh9.png

See in the Guns column, partway down there is a c. and an s.  What do
these two abbreviations mean? Two ships are identified as such; also,
two other ships have a decimal point: 8.12 for one and 6.10 for the
other.  Is this a shorthand way of indicating "c" and "s"? Or does
that have another meaning?

The book is a rather interesting look at the role of the sugar
plantations of the British West Indies, on the British economy.  I
found it here, for anyone who's interested:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8VFnAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=sugar+british+west+indie
s#PPA10,M1

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 31 Dec 2008 01:46 GMT
>I'm trying to understand the data in the "Guns" column of this chart
>of the ships patrolling the 13 colonies in 1735, in the graphic
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>other.  Is this a shorthand way of indicating "c" and "s"? Or does
>that have another meaning?

Just guessing: "c" may be for cannon and "s" for swivel-gun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swivel_gun

>The book is a rather interesting look at the role of the sugar
>plantations of the British West Indies, on the British economy.  I
>found it here, for anyone who's interested:
>
>http://books.google.com/books?id=8VFnAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=sugar+british+west+indie
s#PPA10,M1

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

John Varela - 01 Jan 2009 16:30 GMT
>> I'm trying to understand the data in the "Guns" column of this chart
>> of the ships patrolling the 13 colonies in 1735, in the graphic
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Just guessing: "c" may be for cannon and "s" for swivel-gun.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swivel_gun

It's only the sloops that have the c and s or the decimal notation.

Sloops were lightly armed, so your guess sounds good to me.

I have a book, "The History of the American Sailing Navy", which
obviously does not extend back to the early 18th century, but does have
this, on page 156:

"The British sloops of war built on a similar plan between 1795 and
1798 ... will serve to illustrate the point.  [The author is arguing
that the Americans tended to over-gun their ships.]  The /Cyane/ later
fell into American hands and was taken into the United States Navy.  
The British ships ... originally carried 16 6-pdrs. on the gun deck, 6
12-pdr. carronades on the quarterdeck, and 2 12-pdr. carronades on the
forecastle---24 guns all told against the Americans' 26 guns of heavier
weight."

Sloops and their armament might have grown, in the 60 years between the
OP's table and the 1790s, from 6 or 8 cannons and 10 or 12 swivel guns
(total 16 to 20 guns) to 16 cannons and 8 carronades (total 24).  The
carronade was invented in 1759, which would explain the replacement of
swivels with carronades. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carronade>

Signature

John Varela
Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email.

Raymond O'Hara - 01 Jan 2009 18:00 GMT
>>> I'm trying to understand the data in the "Guns" column of this chart
>>> of the ships patrolling the 13 colonies in 1735, in the graphic
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> carronade was invented in 1759, which would explain the replacement of
> swivels with carronades. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carronade>

The entry is dated 1735 that is well before the carronade was developed.
Raymond O'Hara - 31 Dec 2008 01:47 GMT
> I'm trying to understand the data in the "Guns" column of this chart
> of the ships patrolling the 13 colonies in 1735, in the graphic
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=8VFnAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA1&dq=sugar+british+west+indie
s#PPA10,M1

C & S could be cannon & swivel guns as they are small sloops

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