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to "scuch" someone?

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Monkfish - 26 Feb 2004 03:14 GMT
ok, in my family ( Northern Italian ) we're always using this word
"scuch" to mean "to tease or annoy".  as in "don't scuch your sister"

i've never heard this anywhere else.  can anyone shed some light on
this word, its proper spelling, etc?

                 
Enzo Michelangeli - 26 Feb 2004 03:25 GMT
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[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> i've never heard this anywhere else.  can anyone shed some light on
> this word, its proper spelling, etc?

I think you refer to the verb "scocciare" (meaning as you say, to bother,
annoy etc.). "Don't annoy your sister" = "Non scocciare tua sorella". Of
course, as with any other italian - indeed, neolatin - verb, different
moods, tenses and persons change the ending of the word (conjugation):
"scocciare" is just the infinitive, which in Italian, for some reason,
happens to coincide with the negative form of the imperative mood.

Enzo
filippo - 26 Feb 2004 12:01 GMT
> "Monkfish" <respond@ingroup.xy> wrote

>> ok, in my family ( Northern Italian ) we're always using this word
>> "scuch" to mean "to tease or annoy".  as in "don't scuch your sister"
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> "scocciare" is just the infinitive, which in Italian, for some reason,
> happens to coincide with the negative form of the imperative mood.


I'd like to add a note about the possible origin of this use.
"scocciare" literally refers to the action of breaking
"i cocci" (in the original meaning of "shells", cfr
[I guess..] "cozza" i.e. "mussel"), particularly those
of eggs: "scocciare un uovo"="rompere un uovo". The possibility
for this idiomatic expression "scocciare" = "rompere le uova" to
be used as an euphemistic version of "rompere i coglioni" (vulgar
to mean bother, annoy, etc) is evident; see also "rompere le uova
nel paniere" to mean to upset plans,  hinting at a strong semantic
attraction. We have the reflexive form "scocciarsi" as well, meaning
both to get annoyed and to get bored.

Curiously enough, there's room for an alternative, surely varronian
etymology: the transitive "scocciare" and the reflexive "scocciarsi"
are the opposites of "incocciare/arsi", sailor's and angler's jargon
for hooking on. When a locked hook get released, or when a fish escapes
the hook, you can say that "si scoccia", or "si e' scocciato"....;-)
PROMETHEUS - 26 Feb 2004 12:50 GMT
> >> ok, in my family ( Northern Italian ) we're always using this word
> >> "scuch" to mean "to tease or annoy".  as in "don't scuch your sister"
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> > "scocciare" is just the infinitive, which in Italian, for some reason,
> > happens to coincide with the negative form of the imperative mood.

=======

In my Northern Italian dialect "scocciare" means 'to scald'.

Ho parlato!
Mark Brader - 26 Feb 2004 22:43 GMT
[Only to alt.usage.english]

Enzo Michelangeli:
> I think you refer to the verb "scocciare" (meaning as you say, to bother,
> annoy etc.). "Don't annoy your sister" = "Non scocciare tua sorella"...

That's interesting, because the stem "scocc-" must sound a lot like
the English verb "scotch", meaning to interfere with.  But I always
assumed that one referred somehow to Scottish hostility to the English.

Let's see what <http://www.m-w.com> has... oh, *more* interesting.
They list two *separate* English verbs with similar meanings.

"scotch [1,transitive verb]", they say, has an archaic sense of "cut,
gash, score", and also "wound", and a modern sense of "put an end to".i
And scotch[4,transitive verb] means to "block with a chock", "hinder",
"thwart".  They give no etymology for the latter verb, but they say
the former is derived from Middle English "scocchen", to gash.  I wonder
if this is a cognate to the Italian verb.
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righter - 26 Feb 2004 03:56 GMT
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[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> i've never heard this anywhere else.  can anyone shed some light on
> this word, its proper spelling, etc?

I don't think it's in an English dictionary.

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Charles Riggs - 26 Feb 2004 04:45 GMT
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>
>I don't think it's in an English dictionary.

A slim possibility is that the word he has in mind is 'scutch'. From
the OED:

Now chiefly dial.

  trans. To strike with a stick or whip, to slash, switch. Also intr.
to strike at.
 
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Nero - 26 Feb 2004 09:48 GMT
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> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I don't think it's in an English dictionary.

The word "scutch" can be found in dictionaries (it's in Collins for
example)although it's now pretty obsolete.  The meaning is to pound or
bea, as in the process of separating fibres of flax, etc.

Neil
Brian Wickham - 26 Feb 2004 18:28 GMT
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[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>example)although it's now pretty obsolete.  The meaning is to pound or
>bea, as in the process of separating fibres of flax, etc.

"Scutch" is a different pronunciation than "scuch" which rhymes with
"Butch" in my dialect.  I heard the word used as a noun in New York
City in the 1950s and 60s.  A typical use would be, "Ah, she's a
scuch!" and my understanding of it was, "She's a pain-in-the-a.s!"

This would fit in nicely with Monkfish's understanding of the word.

Brian Wickham
news.verizon.net - 27 Feb 2004 13:55 GMT
> "Scutch" is a different pronunciation than "scuch" which rhymes with
> "Butch" in my dialect.  I heard the word used as a noun in New York
> City in the 1950s and 60s.  A typical use would be, "Ah, she's a
> scuch!" and my understanding of it was, "She's a pain-in-the-a.s!"
>
> This would fit in nicely with Monkfish's understanding of the word.

Bingo.  My grandmother uses it as a noun all the time.  "Don't be
a scuch".  And it rhymes with "butch" and has the same exact meaning.

Thanks to all who came up with it as a conjugate of "scocciare", to
bother/annoy/scald/break eggs/bust ba**s.  I guess you really _can_
find out anything on Usenet.
Scuch - 29 Feb 2004 03:41 GMT
> "Scutch" is a different pronunciation than "scuch" which rhymes with
> "Butch" in my dialect.  I heard the word used as a noun in New York
> City in the 1950s and 60s.  A typical use would be, "Ah, she's a
> scuch!" and my understanding of it was, "She's a pain-in-the-a.s!"
>
> This would fit in nicely with Monkfish's understanding of the word.

Bingo.  My grandmother uses it as a noun all the time.  "Don't be
a scuch", or "scutch".  And it rhymes with "butch" and has the same
exact meaning like you all decribed.

Thanks to all who came up with it as a conjugate of "scocciare", to
bother/annoy/scald/break eggs/bust ba**s.  I guess you really _can_
find out anything on Usenet.
 
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