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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009Thus
Hello: "Thus Hans Castorp." Does this mean "Thus Hans Castorp proclaimed." ? ----- [Joachim, Castorp's cousin, said it was a poor idea to use oxygen for the dying in large amounts (in order to help them breath), especially because of its costs, as this leaves the living family penniless.] Hans Castorp disagreed emphatically. His cousin, he said, talked almost like Settembrini, without any regard or reverence for suffering. The man had died in the end, that finished it; there was no more to be done to show one's concern, and it had been due to the dying to spend what one could. Thus Hans Castorp. He only hoped the Hofrat [the chieft doctor] had not showed a lack of decent feeling by railing at the poor man at the end. The Magic Mountain: 1 by Thomas Mann, Helen Tracy Lowe-Porter, p. 295 ----- Thanks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > > "Thus Hans Castorp." > > Does this mean > "Thus Hans Castorp proclaimed." Yes, exactly that. Or "Thus [spake] Hans Castorp". -- > > "Thus Hans Castorp." > > > Does this mean > > "Thus Hans Castorp proclaimed." > > Yes, exactly that. Or "Thus [spake] Hans Castorp". OK, now I remember ... Zarathustra. Thank you both. Marius Hancu >> > "Thus Hans Castorp." >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > OK, now > I remember ... Zarathustra. Worst. Broadway. Show. Ever.  SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. Marius Hancu set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: >> > "Thus Hans Castorp." >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > OK, now I remember ... Zarathustra. I thought the original German title meant that Z said something as well. Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply > Marius Hancu set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time > continuum: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I thought the original German title meant that Z said something as well. Nah, "also" in German means "thus". Will. >Marius Hancu set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time >continuum: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >I thought the original German title meant that Z said something as well. "Thus Sprach Zarathustra" was written by Richard Strauss, not to be confused with any of the Johanns. "Sprach" does mean said, but I don't know the significance of the rest of the title. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>Marius Hancu set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time >>continuum: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > "Thus Sprach Zarathustra" was written by Richard Strauss I think you'll find that Friedrich Nietzsche beat him to it. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. On 06 Jan 2009, Roland Hutchinson wrote >>> Marius Hancu set the following eddies spiralling through the >>> space-time continuum: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I think you'll find that Friedrich Nietzsche beat him to it. Hmmm.... I'm willing to bet that both Nietzsche and Strauss wrote things called "Also Sprach Zarathustra", and that it was some translator wrote "Thus Spake Zarathustra". (Surely the mish-mash of languages in "Thus Sprach" is to be avoided, no?) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >>> Marius Hancu set the following eddies spiralling through the >>> space-time continuum: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I think you'll find that Friedrich Nietzsche beat him to it. Also..... SignatureRay UK >>>> Marius Hancu set the following eddies spiralling through the >>>> space-time continuum: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Also..... Ja, him, too. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >>Marius Hancu set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time >>continuum: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >confused with any of the Johanns. "Sprach" does mean said, but I don't >know the significance of the rest of the title. Zarathustra = Zoroaster Zoroastrians are more familiar under the name "Parsees". http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0005460.html Zoroastrianism Pre-Islamic Persian religion founded by the Persian prophet[1] Zoroaster in the 6th century BC, and still practised by the Parsees in India. The Zend-Avesta are the sacred scriptures of the faith. The theology is dualistic, Ahura Mazda or Ormuzd (the good God) being perpetually in conflict with Ahriman (the evil God), but the former is assured of eventual victory. There are approximately 100,000 (1991) Zoroastrians worldwide; membership is restricted to those with both parents belonging to the faith. Beliefs Humanity has been given free will to choose between the two powers, thus rendering believers responsible for their fate after death in heaven or hell. Moral and physical purity is central to all aspects of Zoroastrian yasna or worship: since life and work are part of worship, there should be purity of action. Fire is considered sacred, and Ahura Mazda believed to be present when the ritual flame is worshipped at home or in the temple. It is believed that there will be a second universal judgement at Frashokereti, a time when the dead will be raised and the world cleansed of unnatural impurity. The Parsee community in Mumbai (formerly Bombay) is now the main centre of Zoroastrianism, but since conversion is generally considered impossible, the numbers in India have been steadily decreasing at the rate of 10% per decade since 1947. Parsee groups, mainly in Delhi and outside India, have been pushing for the acceptance of converts, but the concern of the majority in Mumbai is that their religious and cultural heritage will be lost. [1] Apparently Zoroaster never claimed to be a prophet. There is more information on _Zoroastrian faith and philosophy_ at: http://www.zoroaster.net/indexe.htm It seems to have been written by a non-native English speaker. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [...] > Zarathustra = Zoroaster > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > It seems to have been written by a non-native English speaker. BBC R4's /Face To Faith/ last Monday had some nice Zoroastrians. Parsees are apparently not completely typical. It was interesting enough to see if it's on Listen Again. SignatureMike. >BBC R4's /Face To Faith/ last Monday had some nice Zoroastrians. Parsees >are apparently not completely typical. It was interesting enough to see >if it's on Listen Again. I have a friend who is, at least nominally, a Parsee. He is from Bombay[1]. He once told me that when he lived in India Parsees tended to be Chairpersons of clubs and other voluntary organisations in numbers out of all proportion to their numbers in the population. Hindu members would be nervous about having a Muslim in the chair, and vice versa, but they could all agree on a Parsee because he or she was seen as impartial. [1] It was Bombay when he left. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >BBC R4's /Face To Faith/ last Monday had some nice Zoroastrians. Parsees >are apparently not completely typical. It was interesting enough to see >if it's on Listen Again. Well, nearly right: it's "Beyond Belief", and it's the 29 December episode. (Is Face to Faith something similar? It sounded right, but when I looked it up there it wasn't. But I'm sure it exists somewhere.) SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >> BBC R4's /Face To Faith/ last Monday had some nice Zoroastrians. >> Parsees are apparently not completely typical. It was interesting [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > when I looked it up there it wasn't. But I'm sure it exists > somewhere.) Quite right: sorry. /Face to Faith/ is the bit of the Saturday /Guardian/ which doesn't seem to be looking for excuses to say "f.ck". SignatureMike. >>> BBC R4's /Face To Faith/ last Monday had some nice Zoroastrians. >>> Parsees are apparently not completely typical. It was interesting [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Quite right: sorry. /Face to Faith/ is the bit of the Saturday >/Guardian/ which doesn't seem to be looking for excuses to say "f.ck". Ah, I knew I knew it really. Some good writing there occasionally. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ Marius Hancu wrote, in <afcaa068-5ad7-48b9-b46d-f08e0d482f56@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> on Fri, 2 Jan 2009 02:33:56 -0800 (PST): > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "Thus Hans Castorp proclaimed." > ? Just about. I would understand it as "That was Hans Castorp's opinion". > ----- > [Joachim, Castorp's cousin, said it was a poor idea to use oxygen for [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Thanks. > Marius Hancu SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > Marius Hancu wrote, in > <afcaa068-5ad7-48b9-b46d-f08e0d482f56@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Just about. I would understand it as "That was Hans Castorp's opinion". Not only that it was his opinion, but that he expressed his opinion and what the author just wrote is a fair quotation or close paraphrase and summary of what Castorp said. In other words, the words "he said" could be omitted from the second sentence of the quotation below without changing its meaning. The final sentence ("He also...") is also to be understood as something he said. Putting it after "Thus Hans Castorp" seems to me to imply that Castorp might have paused for a moment before adding it as his final pronouncement (at least for the time being) on the subject. >> Hans Castorp disagreed emphatically. His cousin, he said, talked >> almost like Settembrini, without any regard or reverence for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> Thanks. >> Marius Hancu SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. |
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