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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009Something to be felt of
Hello: Is this "felt of" coming from a phrasal verb? I'm reading it as "touched." ------- [Describing the awful procedure of surgically installing an pneumothorax in those years, with no anaesthesia] ... and when he begins moving over my pleura with his instrument -- oh, Lord, oh, Lord -- I felt like -- I felt like it was all up with me -- it was something perfectly indescribable. The pleura, my friends, is not anything that should be felt of; it does not want to be felt of and it ought not to be. Thomas Mann, The Magic Mountain, p. 312 ------- Thanks. Marius Hancu Thaks. Marius Hancu > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I'm reading it as "touched." It's like 'drink of', isn't it? 'Drink of the cup'. --Iain > > Is this "felt of" > > coming [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It's like 'drink of', isn't it? 'Drink of the cup'. Well, "drink of the cup" means "drink from the cup" I feel better the need for the preposition/particle in that case. I'm not sure if we can say "feel from the cup." We can say "feel the cup," though. Would be different if it were: "The pleura, my friends, is not anything that should be FELT/TOUCHED; " Thanks. Marius Hancu > > > Is this "felt of" > > > coming [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > means > "drink from the cup" No, drink of the cup means drink of the cup. Only in the context of drinking, from is the only substitute that also makes sense. 'Judge of it's quality' is another example of the same 'of'. --Iain >>>> Is this "felt of" coming from a phrasal verb? >>>> I'm reading it as "touched." >>> It's like 'drink of', isn't it? 'Drink of the cup'. >> Well, "drink of the cup" means "drink from the cup" > No, drink of the cup means drink of the cup. Only in the context of > drinking, from is the only substitute that also makes sense. > 'Judge of it's quality' is another example of the same 'of'. Would that "of" not be "concerning, with respect to"? > >>>> Is this "felt of" coming from a phrasal verb? > >>>> I'm reading it as "touched." [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Would that "of" not be "concerning, with respect to"? Hard to say. I don't know whether it's the same meaning as "think of". Come to think of it, if we can say 'think of', then by analogy shouldn't we be able to say 'feel of'? --Iain > Come to think of it, if we can say 'think of', then by analogy > shouldn't we be able to say 'feel of'? 1. If English were a logically constructed language we would say so automatically: but it is not that sort of language. 2. But English is a flexible and permissible language so we may still say "feel of" without breaking an rules of grammar. 3. But doctors obviously do not: they say "palpate" instead.  SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >> Come to think of it, if we can say 'think of', then by analogy >> shouldn't we be able to say 'feel of'? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > may still say "feel of" without breaking an rules of grammar. > 3. But doctors obviously do not: they say "palpate" instead. That's it. "Palpate." "Massage" is another. And "feel of" is used more often these days to mean "feel like", as in "it feels of velvet", "has the feel of velvet". But we do have "stinks of, smells of, tastes of" and even "sounds of". But in all of those, to me, "of" indicates "like", or having some modicum of the feel, taste, odor or sound of another item. We tend to leave off "of" or choose another preposition when we mean someone is groping within or grabbing flesh or feeling around in our bodily cavities. So the doctor might "feel around blindly" within or along the pleura. And he might say "This feels of (like) healthy or sickly pleura". > "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote in message > >> Come to think of it, if we can say 'think of', then by analogy > >> shouldn't we be able to say 'feel of'? [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > along the pleura. And he might say "This feels of (like) healthy or > sickly pleura". All these sound well and wouldn't have posted about them:-) Thanks. Marius Hancu [about] .. and when he begins moving over my pleura with his instrument -- oh, Lord, oh, Lord -- I felt like -- I felt like it was all up with me -- it was something perfectly indescribable. The pleura, my friends, is not anything that should be felt of; it does not want to be felt of and it ought not to be. > > We tend to leave off "of" or choose another preposition when we mean > > someone is groping within or grabbing flesh or feeling around in our [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > All these sound well and wouldn't have posted about them:-) Everyone seems to be focussing on the medical practioner as the one doing the feeling (groping, touching, massaging, etc.) I read the passage quite differently -- the "felt" refers to the owner of the body. There are parts of the body we are generally quite unaware of, unless they are sending us messages of pain. We usually don't feel any sensations in our muscles or back or many other regions unless we have overstressed them, they are infected, etc. And these pleura sent such an usual sort of pain message as to be indescribable. He's saying you will be lucky if you never know what this feels like, it feels so bad. The "of" business I chalk up to translator weirdness. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > [about] > .. and when he begins moving over my pleura with his > instrument -- oh, Lord, oh, Lord -- I felt like -- I > felt like it was all up with me -- it was something > perfectly indescribable. The pleura, my friends, is > not anything that should be felt of; it does not want > to be felt of and it ought not to be. >>> We tend to leave off "of" or choose another preposition when we >>> mean someone is groping within or grabbing flesh or feeling >>> around in our bodily cavities. So the doctor might "feel around >>> blindly" within or along the pleura. And he might say "This >>> feels of (like) healthy or sickly pleura". >> All these sound well and wouldn't have posted about them:-) > Everyone seems to be focussing on the medical practioner as the one > doing the feeling (groping, touching, massaging, etc.) I read the > passage quite differently -- the "felt" refers to the owner of the > body. > There are parts of the body we are generally quite unaware of, > unless they are sending us messages of pain. We usually don't feel [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > indescribable. He's saying you will be lucky if you never know > what this feels like, it feels so bad. > The "of" business I chalk up to translator weirdness. The Woods version has "touch", if I've got the right passage; so maybe the weirdness has some method in it, this time. The narrator has a lot to say about the sensations involved too. "The pleural lining, gentlemen, should never be touched -- it ought not, cannot, be touched. It is taboo. The pleural lining is covered by flesh, isolated, inaccessible -- for good and all. And now he had exposed it, was exploring it." http://books.google.ca/books?id=ZVl5vev7_28C&pg=RA1-PA185&lpg=RA1-PA185&dq=%22Ma gic+Mountain%22+Woods+text&source=bl&ots=docMHzunlo&sig=J2pW7zuUjn09U8I1l-YTm6l_ 3h4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result#PRA1-PA295,M1 http://tinyurl.com/9dyos5 The page number displayed is 295; the number on the printed page is 305. > The Woods version has "touch", if I've got the right passage; so maybe > the weirdness has some method in it, this time. The narrator has a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > by flesh, isolated, inaccessible -- for good and all. And now he had > exposed it, was exploring it." I'm quite sure you got it right. Thanks. Marius Hancu >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I'm reading it as "touched." I'd say that "felt of" is just plain wrong. The sentence is satisfactory with the "of"s omitted: The pleura, my friends, is not anything that should be felt; it does not want to be felt... "Touched" is right, but in this context "feeling" is an exploratory type of touching. It refers to more than a simple touch. >------- >[Describing the awful procedure of surgically installing an [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Thaks. >Marius Hancu SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On Jan 3, 6:03 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: > >Is this "felt of" > >coming [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "Touched" is right, but in this context "feeling" is an exploratory type of > touching. It refers to more than a simple touch. Indeed, this is plain surgery. Thank you all. Marius Hancu > Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Thaks. > Marius Hancu He was in such pain as he felt he mght die, The pleura is nothing you want messed with. |
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