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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009Using _say_ as adv.
Hi all, As we all know, the word _say_ can be used as adv witht the following meaning: for instance : by way of example : AS See the following sentence: *if we compress any gas, say oxygen* But, my issue is the location of _say_ when using it as a adv, e.g., in the following examples: -------------------- >$ touch a.cache-2 b.cache-2 >$ echo [ -f *.cache-2 ] >[ -f a.cache-2 b.cache-2 ] In your example, considering that the a.cache-2 and b.cache-2 have been created by touch command, both the [ -f a.cache-2] and [ -f b.cache-2 ] should have the value: true. My issue is: how can I grab this value, say, by using echo command? --------------------- The above snippet is excerpted from a email of my communications with others on the gmane.os.cygwin maillist. In fact, as for the last sentence in my above example, I want to know which is more accurate for my case in the following two expressions: 1- My issue is: how can I grab this value, say, by using echo command? 2- My issue is: how can I grab, say, by using echo command, this value? Regards,  Signature.: Hongyi Zhao [ hongyi.zhao AT gmail.com ] Free as in Freedom :. > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Regards, What do you mean by accurate? (1) is more idiomatic but they mean the same. In each case I'd omit the second comma. >> 1- My issue is: how can I grab >> this value, say, by using echo command? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >What do you mean by accurate? (1) is more idiomatic but they mean the >same. In each case I'd omit the second comma. Thanks, I mistakenly believe that the two expressions have some subtle difference, so I want to know which is the more accurate one. Thank you for eliminating my confusion. Regards, Signature.: Hongyi Zhao [ hongyi.zhao AT gmail.com ] Free as in Freedom :. > >> 1- My issue is: how can I grab > >> this value, say, by using echo command? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > difference, so I want to know which is the more accurate one. Thank > you for eliminating my confusion. I find (1) quite clear and natural. You want to "grab this value" and you are suggesting "using echo command" as an example of possible method. (2) is hard to understand, because in English we are not likely to split the verb ("grab") from the object ("this value") quite that way. If you decided you really wanted to say this, I suggest you use dashes to show that the normal flow of the sentence is strongly interrupted: How can I grab -- say, by using echo command -- this value? Or parentheses: How can I grab (say, by using echo command) this value? I suspect you just want (1). SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > 2- My issue is: how can I grab, say, by using echo command, > this value? See comments by other responders. I agree that your example (2) is unlikely, though it might appear in unplanned speech. Note that Donna calls "say" a verb in this use: she is quite right, as it isn't an adverb. It is still a verb, but in the imperative. We use it in this way, meaning such things as "taking for the purpose of discussion", "for example", or "approximately", or even "I suggest, if you will agree,.."; in these cases the connection with the word's basic meaning is rather distant, but can still be traced quite logically if one thinks of "let us say for example". By using "say" like this the speaker or writer leaves other possibilities open. SignatureMike. >>I want to know which is more accurate > > for my case in the following two expressions: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Note that Donna calls "say" a verb in this use: she is quite right, as > it isn't an adverb. But I didn't say that "say" was a verb, honest I didn't. I called "grab" a verb. The point I tried to make was that the heart of the sentence, "grab this value", was split by too many other words. I'm not sure what I would call this sort of "say." An interjection, maybe, like "well"? It introduces an example or estimate. > It is still a verb, but in the imperative. We use it > in this way, meaning such things as "taking for the purpose of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > one thinks of "let us say for example". By using "say" like this the > speaker or writer leaves other possibilities open. I agree this is likely. SignatureBest -- Donna Richoux Hongyi Zhao: > In your example, considering that the a.cache-2 and b.cache-2 have > been created by touch command... By the way, this sentence uses "the" where it shouldn't and not where it should. You mean: In your example, considering that a.cache-2 and b.cache-2 have been created by the touch command... SignatureMark Brader | "Oh, especially if it's accurate. There's nothing worse Toronto | than *accurate*, ill-informed, irresponsible press msb@vex.net | speculation." -- Lynn & Jay: "Yes, Prime Minister" My text in this article is in the public domain. |
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