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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009if it had/were/was not been for
Ladies and Gentlemen: I wonder if there are distinctions among /if it had not been for something/, /if it wasn't been for something/ and /if it weren't for something/. Most of my dictionaries mark them as interchangeable, but a usage book states that /it had not been for/ is used for the past. Some online dictionaries: http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/for_1 (#23) http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=if*1+3&dict=A http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=30315&dict=CALD ------------ 1. If it weren't for your help, we would never have finished in time. 2. If it wasn't for your help, we would never have finished in time. 3. If it had not been for your help, we would never have finished in time. (Do they mean the same thing?) 4. If it weren't for your help, we _would never finish_ in time. (Does it mean the same thing as the first three sentences?) Sincerely Tacia > I wonder if there are distinctions among /if it had not been for > something/, /if it wasn't been for something/ ... OOPS! I made serious mistakes in the title and here! I just copied and pasted...I was intended to type "if it were not for something" > Ladies and Gentlemen: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Sincerely > Tacia The first two have the same meaning. The third differs from the first two in that the first part, "If it had not been for your help" is, I believe, in the past perfect tense, whereas the first two sentences begin in the presence. In this way the third sentence references help that has already been given and that is no longer being given. The fourth sentence is entirely in the present tense. Hope that helps, jhs See the good form here: http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/presentconditional.html#presentunreal http://www.englishpage.com/conditional/presentconditional.html#presentunreal or here: http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-conditional_3.htm http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-conditional_4.htm Marius Hancu > 1. If it weren't for your help, we would never have finished in time. > 2. If it wasn't for your help, we would never have finished in time. 1 and 2 mean the same thing, however 1 is formal and 2 is less so. They are used for the past time here, which is a bit unusual. I prefer 3 in the past. They are unusual in that the condition parts are "contemporaneous" (i.e. at the same time) in the past with the "finished" part (the main part) and this worries many people, including myself. I feel that the condition (the "if" part), logically speaking, should be fulfilled prior to the main sentence (2nd part here), thus showing precedence. > 3. If it had not been for your help, we would never have finished in > time. 3 is the classical/canonical version for showing precedence between condition and main sentence. The best version, IMO. 1, 2 and 3 mean the same here. > 4. If it weren't for your help, we _would never finish_ in time. > (Does it mean the same thing as the first three sentences?) No. This is all in present time and a correct/canonical one. I prefer to avoid using "was/were" in the past in such conditional constructions, and prefer the past perfect, however the reality is that they are all used. Marius Hancu > > 1. If it weren't for your help, we would never have finished in time. > > 2. If it wasn't for your help, we would never have finished in time. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Marius Hancu Tacia, There's a lot of stuff out there on mixed conditionals. Any good grammar book will give you good information on the subject. Now, let's get to the real thing. The stats in published books at Google Books show that they are all used: 78 on " If it weren't for * we would never have" http://books.google.com/books?q=%22+If+it+weren%27t+for++*+we+would+never+have%2 2&btnG=Search+Books 42 on "If it wasn't for * we would never have" http://books.google.com/books?q=%22If+it+wasn%27t+for++*+we+would+never+have%22& btnG=Search+Books 205 on "If it hadn't been for * we would never have" http://books.google.com/books?q=%22If+it+hadn%27t+been+for++*+we+would+never+hav e%22&btnG=Search+Books Glad to see the classical approach is the most used:-) Marius Hancu |
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