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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009"Tepid" zones?
Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, and tepid regions"?  SignatureMike. On Jan 13, 12:48 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Why on earth is my intelligent nephew I hope your other nephews (if any) don't read that. > being taught that the torrid, > frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, > and tepid regions"? "Tepid" is even funnier than "temperate" for the zone you and I live in. -- Jerry Friedman > On Jan 13, 12:48 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "Tepid" is even funnier than "temperate" for the zone you and I live > in. Perhaps it's an allusion to "No sex, please, we're British". SignatureLes (BrE) On 13 Jan 2009, jerry_friedman@yahoo.com wrote > On Jan 13, 12:48 pm, "Mike Lyle" > <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "Tepid" is even funnier than "temperate" for the zone you and I > live in. I'm pretty cool with either of them. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On Jan 13, 12:48 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >"Tepid" is even funnier than "temperate" for the zone you and I live >in. Are those the horse latitudes? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, >frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, >and tepid regions"? Some rigid person evidently wants a lucid system of three disyllabic adjectives ending in -id: frigid, tepid, torrid. James >> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, >> frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, >> and tepid regions"? > > Some rigid person evidently wants a lucid system of three > disyllabic adjectives ending in -id: frigid, tepid, torrid. What a vapid idea. Insipid, even if you allow three syllables -- anyway it's definitely not sipid. Many years ago, for some reason now forgotten, I wanted a really ugly word to signify "beautiful", and invented "pulchrid", after deciding that "pulchrous" didn't sound nasty enough. Signatureathel >>> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, >>> frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >word to signify "beautiful", and invented "pulchrid", after deciding >that "pulchrous" didn't sound nasty enough. Yes, "pulchrid" is pretty ugly. The word has now been reinvented as a noun: "A new unit was declared today by the International Movement to Scientify Everything. Called the pulchrid, it is an objective, universally applicable unit of aesthetic value. The pulchrid scale is 100-based, with its 100 unit fixed as "Hawaiian sunset" and its 0 as "Mickey Rooney in the bath." Experiments are now underway to reach the "absolute zero" on the pulchrid scale, by systematically defacing a specially designated area of Newark, New Jersey. Scientists involved must spend several minutes a day in a hyperpulchric chamber to avoid hypoaesthetic toxaemia, a condition that, in extreme cases, can lead to terminal apathy." http://www.bautforum.com/1302885-post418.html James > Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, > frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, > and tepid regions"? I'm pretty sure we were taught that the hot one was "tropic" or "tropical". I forget what the cold one was called. Arctic? SignatureJohn Varela Trade OLD lamps for NEW for email >> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, >> frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, >> cold, and tepid regions"? > > I'm pretty sure we were taught that the hot one was "tropic" or > "tropical". I forget what the cold one was called. Arctic? "Frigid", I imagine, as in the three I quoted above from my own primary education. Note also "region": "zone" is a much better word for something broadly belt-like. James: no, I don't think "hot" and "cold" end in "-id". Les: no, even these days I think he's too young for that. Jerry: make that "one of my two intelligent nephews". And you're right about our climes' shared lack of tepidity. PJ: yep. Mustn't teach them too much, or the dumb ones will feel discriminated-against. SignatureMike. On Jan 13, 3:43 pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > >> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, > >> frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > "Frigid", I imagine, as in the three I quoted above from my own primary > education. ... I don't remember learning anything but Arctic, North Temperate, Tropical, South Temperate, Antarctic. This caused me a problem with civil Edward Lear's "Torrible Zone". -- Jerry Friedman Mike Lyle set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: > Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, > frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, > and tepid regions"? Sounds like a bad case of dumbing down to me. Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply Mike Lyle asked > Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, > frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, and > tepid regions"? I would have called them the tropical, temperate and arctic zones. It also depends upon the degree of detail you wish to convey: for greater differentiation, you might wish to distinguish between the tropical, desert, mediterranean[1], temperate, sub-arctic and arctic zones. [1] The mediterranean zone does not have to be geographically on the Mediterranean Sea. Some parts of the southern USA, particularly if near to the sea, are part of the mediterranean zone. Richard Chambers Leeds UK. Mike Lyle: >> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, >> frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, >> cold, and tepid regions"? Dick Chambers: > I would have called them the tropical, temperate and arctic zones. I had "torrid, frigid, and temperate" too. Probably about grade 4 or 5. SignatureMark Brader | "You have seen this incident, based on sworn Toronto | testimony. Can you prove that it didn't happen?" msb@vex.net | -- Ed Wood, Plan 9 from Outer Space > Mike Lyle: >>> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I had "torrid, frigid, and temperate" too. Probably about grade 4 or 5. But with the coming global warming those old time terms will not describe the new zones. Hot can be upgraded to superhot, whereas torrid is just torrid. >> Mike Lyle: >>>> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > not describe the new zones. Hot can be upgraded to superhot, whereas > torrid is just torrid. I think I can feel a verse or worse coming on... There was a little girl Who had a little curl Right in the middle of her...er... forehead. When she was good, She was very very good; But when she was bad...oh, man! She was /torrid/! SignatureMike. >> Mike Lyle: >>>> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >not describe the new zones. Hot can be upgraded to superhot, whereas torrid >is just torrid. Except in Torridon. The climate there appears to be sub-torrid. http://www.stevecarter.com/ansh/climate.htm SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Mike Lyle: >>>> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > not describe the new zones. Hot can be upgraded to superhot, whereas torrid > is just torrid. Our weather forecasters seem to use "warm" for 20-34°C and "hot" for anything above that. Occasionally, for temperatures over 40° they dare "very hot". SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister filted: >Our weather forecasters seem to use "warm" for 20-34°C and "hot" for >anything above that. Occasionally, for temperatures over 40° they dare >"very hot". We get "warm" only when it approaches 40C..."hot" comes about five degrees (C) later.... Anything below 20C here is "sweater weather"....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" Richard Chambers filted: >Mike Lyle asked > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Mediterranean Sea. Some parts of the southern USA, particularly if near to >the sea, are part of the mediterranean zone. Not too far from where I'm now living, and around where I was living some thirty years ago, the zones of interest were Lower Sonoran, Upper Sonoran, Transition, Canadian, Hudsonian and Arctic-Alpine....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" On Jan 13, 4:25 pm, "Richard Chambers" <richard.chambers7_NoSp...@ntlworld.net> wrote: > Mike Lyle asked > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > differentiation, you might wish to distinguish between the tropical, desert, > mediterranean[1], temperate, sub-arctic and arctic zones. And even greater differentiation is possible. > [1] The mediterranean zone does not have to be geographically on the > Mediterranean Sea. Some parts of the southern USA, particularly if near to > the sea, are part of the mediterranean zone. I thought a mediterranean climate had dry summers and cool, rainy winters. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_climate the only part of the U.S. with that pattern is California. -- Jerry Friedman > On Jan 13, 4:25 pm, "Richard Chambers" > <richard.chambers7_NoSp...@ntlworld.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > And even greater differentiation is possible. I'd throw in sub-tropical and divide temperate into warm temperate and cool temperate. And delete desert and mediterranean as zones. Deserts can be at any latitude, and meditrerranean is more a style of climate that has as much to do with seasonal wind patterns as anything else. Monsoonal is similarly a desciption of a climate type rather than a zone. >> [1] The mediterranean zone does not have to be geographically on the >> Mediterranean Sea. Some parts of the southern USA, particularly if [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_climate > the only part of the U.S. with that pattern is California. Yep, and much of southern Australia (except that much of the rain has gone missing for the last decade or more). And those are within the warm temperate zone. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > I'd throw in sub-tropical and divide temperate into warm temperate and > cool temperate. And delete desert and mediterranean as zones. Deserts can > be at any latitude, and meditrerranean is more a style of climate that has > as much to do with seasonal wind patterns as anything else. Monsoonal is > similarly a desciption of a climate type rather than a zone. On reflection, I might agree with you about the mediterranean zone. I do not agree with what you write about the desert zone. There is a band of desert country, all at a similar latitude, stretching from the Sahara to the Saudi Arabian desert, to the deserts of northern India, and to the desrts of western Texas, New Mexico, etc. This band of deserts has its counterpart at a similar latitude in the southern hemisphere, with the Kalahari and the desert in South America ("the driest oplace on earth", according to a TV programme I watched recently, but whose name I have forgotten). Admittedly, there are deserts elsewhere as well, such as the Gobi Desert in Outer Mongolia and the volcanic ash desert of Iceland (the "Black Sahara of the North", which I have visited), but these deserts are produced by extraneous causes not connected with the main desert zone. Have we forgotten to mention the savannah zone? Or is this the same as the sub-tropical zone? Richard Chambers Leeds UK. >On reflection, I might agree with you about the mediterranean zone. I do not >agree with what you write about the desert zone. There is a band of desert >country, all at a similar latitude, Which phenomenon my Physical Geography prof. described as the "twenty-degree latitude west-coast desert". It's a result of the Hadley cell structure in the atmospheric circulation. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness > [ ... ] > western Texas, New Mexico, etc. This band of deserts has its counterpart at > a similar latitude in the southern hemisphere, with the Kalahari and the > desert in South America ("the driest oplace on earth", according to a TV > programme I watched recently, but whose name I have forgotten). Atacama. There are places in the interior where no rain has fallen since the Spaniards first arrived (that's why the nitrate was sitting around waiting to be used as fertilizer, instead of being washed away to the sea as it would anywhere else). On the coast it rains from time to time, say every 30 years or so. When I was in Santiago in 1980 it rained in Antofagasta, and the newspaper said it was the first time since 1946. Signatureathel >On Jan 13, 4:25 pm, "Richard Chambers" ><richard.chambers7_NoSp...@ntlworld.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_climate >the only part of the U.S. with that pattern is California. I was taught that a Mediterranean climate was characterised by hot, dry summers and warm, wet winters. That would be from an English standpoint, of course. No doubt a schoolboy in, say, Aswan would be taught much the same but with different words replacing hot, dry, and warm. Now I see why the initials www seemed familiar when the interweb came along. SignaturePaul > "jerry_fried...@yahoo.com" <jerry_fried...@yahoo.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > I was taught that a Mediterranean climate was characterised by hot, dry > summers So was I, but if you believe Wikipedia, some coastal areas now classified as Mediterranean have mild, possibly foggy, low-rainfall summers. The article mentions San Francisco and Porto. I'm not sure whether any place actually on the Mediterranean has this kind of climate, though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_climate#Temperature > and warm, wet winters. That would be from an English > standpoint, of course. No doubt a schoolboy in, say, Aswan would be > taught much the same but with different words replacing hot, dry, and > warm. ... 'Sall relative, innit. -- Jerry Friedman After I wiped off my hand and pulled up my pants, I decided to read what "Mike Lyle" actually had to say: >Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, >frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, >and tepid regions"? To make your stupid nephew jealous? LOL? Signature"But, why *beer*?" --Tim Weaver poses the dumbest question I've ever been asked. > Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, > frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, > and tepid regions"? Because the upper classes of long ago learned their Latin to distinguish themselves from the plebs, and hence knew that there should be a tepidarium between the caldarium and the frigidarium, Jan >> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, >> frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and hence knew that there should be a tepidarium > between the caldarium and the frigidarium, So you reckon "hot" and "cold" are Latinate terms, in contrast to "torrid" and "frigid"? You must have been deplebbed with a different dialect of Latin from the one I was gentricated with. SignatureMike. > >> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, > >> frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "torrid" and "frigid"? You must have been deplebbed with a different > dialect of Latin from the one I was gentricated with. You needed deplebbing? Jan >>>> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, >>>> frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > You needed deplebbing? Of course: I'm an Australian. But at least in my case it seems to have worked a bit. I mean, you really want "tepidus" to go with "hotus, hota, hotum", FGS? SignatureMike. > Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, > frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, and > tepid regions"? Because "frigid", "temperate", and "torrid" are not in the Oxford School Dictionary (or whatever it is called) of recent threadery? I remember when I first learnt these, in Mr Evans' class, I think, at age 8, "frigid" and "torrid" were new words to me so I had to look them up. Mum and Dad had just acquired a big new grown-up encyclopaedia/dictionary set to help us boys with our edyucashun, and when I looked them up in that I was, as you might imagine, seriously confused. Now, with a little climatological knowledge, I know that the concept of these zones has no real value, save the minimal one of providing a single-word annotation to the bits between the tropics and circles and poles. Early/mid twentieth-century dumbing down, perhaps? Were I to be asked to replace them I might use "polar" and "tropical", and hang on to "temperate" .... even though every time I type it I end up with "temperature" and have to edit it. Proxinyms, anyone? Philip Eden >> Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, >> frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Oxford School Dictionary (or whatever it is called) of > recent threadery? I fear so: I was thinking of that. > I remember when I first learnt these, in Mr Evans' class, > I think, at age 8, "frigid" and "torrid" were new words to > me so I had to look them up. Mum and Dad had just > acquired a big new grown-up encyclopaedia/dictionary set > to help us boys with our edyucashun, and when I looked them > up in that I was, as you might imagine, seriously confused. I think Miss Nockolds had the forethought to explain the words to us. > Now, with a little climatological knowledge, I know > that the concept of these zones has no real value, save > the minimal one of providing a single-word annotation > to the bits between the tropics and circles and poles. > Early/mid twentieth-century dumbing down, perhaps? From your professional standpoint as a scientist it's pretty valueless, but I think it's a good way in to the subject for eight-year-olds. > Were I to be asked to replace them I might use > "polar" and "tropical", and hang on to "temperate" .... > even though every time I type it I end up with > "temperature" and have to edit it. Proxinyms, anyone? Switch off the "feature", no? But don't get me started on the weirdnesses of predictive text-messaging. I can see why it thinks I might mean "econ" when I say "damn", but why on earth would I want to say "famo"? Or "I'o" instead of "I'm"? I quite like being offered the choice between "polar" and "solar", though. I don't doubt that there's at least one website devoted to recording such things, but I've never bothered to look for it, or to make a note of the best ones as they appear. SignatureMike. > > Now, with a little climatological knowledge, I know > > that the concept of these zones has no real value, save > > the minimal one of providing a single-word annotation > > to the bits between the tropics and circles and poles. > > Early/mid twentieth-century dumbing down, perhaps? The polar circles and the tropic lines still have astronomical significance. SignatureJohn Varela Trade OLD lamps for NEW for email > > > > Now, with a little climatological knowledge, I know [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The polar circles and the tropic lines still have astronomical > significance. "They are merely conventional signs!" Jan >> > Now, with a little climatological knowledge, I know >> > that the concept of these zones has no real value, save [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >The polar circles and the tropic lines still have astronomical >significance. Although they can't be seen from space, even with the best possible telescope. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > >> > Now, with a little climatological knowledge, I know > >> > that the concept of these zones has no real value, save [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Although they can't be seen from space, even with the best possible telescope. Google Earth sats can! Jan On Jan 13, 1:48�pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrote: > Why on earth is my intelligent nephew being taught that the torrid, > frigid, and temperate climatic zones of our planet are the "hot, cold, > and tepid regions"? > > -- > Mike. I'm quite comfortable with "torrid" and "frigid". But "tepid" brings to my mind the image of a stale beer having the temperature of a cow's pee. >On Jan 13, 1:48?pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >But "tepid" brings to my mind the image of a stale beer having the >temperature of a cow's pee. Interestingly, if you type "tepid" into Wikipedia it automatically redirects you, not to cow's pee but to Temperateness. James > On Jan 13, 1:48?pm, "Mike Lyle" <mike_lyle...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > But "tepid" brings to my mind the image of a stale beer having the > temperature of a cow's pee. We already did Watney's Red Barrel. SignatureLes (BrE) |
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