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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009Diabetic as per merriam-webster.com
1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics 2 : affected with diabetes Wanting to fix an appointment with one of Diabetes Nurses I kept saying "Diabetes Nurse" and the Receptionist at the Surgery kept saying " Diabetic Nurse". Is Receptionist more correct than me? >1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Is Receptionist more correct than me? If the official job title of the nurse is "Diabetic Nurse" then the receptionist is right and you are wrong. You might prefer "diabetes nurse" as a description, but that is not the nurse's official title. Job titles do not always follow the normal rules of grammar. Google finds: 28,600 for "diabetic nurse" 79,700 for "diabetes nurse" I've looked at the first 100 Google results for "diabetic nurse". They are all in the UK (British), so that appears to be the standard job title used in this part of the world.  SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics > 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is Receptionist more correct than me? Receptionist is no doubt correct in the sense that the label used where she works is "Diabetic Nurse." If the issue is which is correct in the abstract, I'd vote for "Diabetes Nurse." "Diabetic Nurse" sounds at first blush as if the nurse suffers from the disease. SignatureBob Lieblich Not diabetic -- yet (thank God) >> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in the abstract, I'd vote for "Diabetes Nurse." "Diabetic Nurse" > sounds at first blush as if the nurse suffers from the disease. Agreed, but the form "diabetic nurse" does seem to be common use. As is (e.g.) "diabetic food". SignatureDavid >>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>> 2 : affected with diabetes >>> Wanting to fix an appointment with one of Diabetes Nurses I kept >>> saying "Diabetes Nurse" and the Receptionist at the Surgery kept >>> saying " Diabetic Nurse". >>> Is Receptionist more correct than me? >> Receptionist is no doubt correct in the sense that the label used >> where she works is "Diabetic Nurse." If the issue is which is correct >> in the abstract, I'd vote for "Diabetes Nurse." "Diabetic Nurse" >> sounds at first blush as if the nurse suffers from the disease. >Agreed, but the form "diabetic nurse" does seem to be common use. As is >(e.g.) "diabetic food". Can this be a mild form of status reduction? "Practice Nurse" is another such term. I often wonder why some other title is not substituted. In article <e3f06958-4b11-4806-a4b2-3a796537ec69@ 35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>, semiretired@my-deja.com says... > >>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics > >>> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I often wonder why some other title > is not substituted. What would you suggest? "Practice Nurse" is a job title that's been around since, well, since there have been nurses based in GP surgeries. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >semireti...@my-deja.com says... >>>>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>>>> 2 : affected with diabetes >>>>>Wanting to fix an appointment with one of Diabetes Nurses I kept >>>>>saying "Diabetes Nurse" and the Receptionist at the Surgery kept >>>>>saying " Diabetic Nurse". >>>>>Is Receptionist more correct than me? >>>>Receptionist is no doubt correct in the sense that the label used >>>>where she works is "Diabetic Nurse." If the issue is which is correct >>>>in the abstract, I'd vote for "Diabetes Nurse." "Diabetic Nurse" >>>>sounds at first blush as if the nurse suffers from the disease. >>>Agreed, but the form "diabetic nurse" does seem to be common use. As is >>>(e.g.) "diabetic food". >>Can this be a mild form of status reduction? >>"Practice Nurse" is another such term. >>I often wonder why some other title >>is not substituted. >What would you suggest? "Practice Nurse" is a job title that's been >around since, well, since there have been nurses based in GP surgeries. How about "Nurse"? >>semireti...@my-deja.com says... > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >How about "Nurse"? Because the job of a Practice Nurse requires particular skills and experience. A Practice Nurse does a particular type of nursing. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On 15 Jan 2009, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote >>> semireti...@my-deja.com says... >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > and experience. A Practice Nurse does a particular type of > nursing. I found the notion that "Diabetic Nurse" or "Practice Nurse" are forms of status reduction really rather odd: I'd have said they're precisely the opposite, as they indicate additional professional skills than just an unadjectived "Nurse". SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On 15 Jan 2009, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote >>On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:47:27 -0800 (PST), >>semireti...@my-deja.com wrote: >>>On 15 Jan, 14:36, Amethyst Deceiver wrote: >>>>semireti...@my-deja.com says... >>>>>>>>1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>>>>>>>2 : affected with diabetes >>>>>>>>Wanting to fix an appointment with one of Diabetes Nurses >>>>>>>>I kept saying "Diabetes Nurse" and the Receptionist at the >>>>>>>>Surgery kept saying " Diabetic Nurse". >>>>>>>>Is Receptionist more correct than me? >>>>>>>Receptionist is no doubt correct in the sense that the >>>>>>>label used where she works is "Diabetic Nurse." If the >>>>>>>issue is which is correct in the abstract, I'd vote for >>>>>>>"Diabetes Nurse." "Diabetic Nurse" sounds at first blush >>>>>>>as if the nurse suffers from the disease. >>>>>>Agreed, but the form "diabetic nurse" does seem to be common >>>>>>use. As is (e.g.) "diabetic food". >>>>>Can this be a mild form of status reduction? >>>>>"Practice Nurse" is another such term. >>>>>I often wonder why some other title >>>>>is not substituted. >>>>What would you suggest? "Practice Nurse" is a job title that's >>>>been around since, well, since there have been nurses based in >>>>GP surgeries. >>>How about "Nurse"? >>Because the job of a Practice Nurse requires particular skills >>and experience. A Practice Nurse does a particular type of >>nursing. >I found the notion that "Diabetic Nurse" or "Practice Nurse" are >forms of status reduction really rather odd: I'd have said they're >precisely the opposite, as they indicate additional professional >skills than just an unadjectived "Nurse". I think the example of "Floor Nurse" illustrates the case quite well. On 15 Jan 2009, wrote >> On 15 Jan 2009, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote >>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:47:27 -0800 (PST), [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > I think the example of "Floor Nurse" illustrates the case > quite well. Perhaps; I don't think "Diabetic Nurse" does at all, though. In that case -- and with "Practice Nurse" -- I'm willing to bet that the addition of the speciality designator comes with higher medical status than just "Nurse" (and higher pay). SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed >On 15 Jan 2009, wrote >>> On 15 Jan 2009, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote >>>> On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:47:27 -0800 (PST), >>>> semireti...@my-deja.com wrote: >>>>> On 15 Jan, 14:36, Amethyst Deceiver wrote: >>>>>> semireti...@my-deja.com says... >>>>>>>>>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>>>>>>>>> 2 : affected with diabetes >>>>>>>>>> Wanting to fix an appointment with one of Diabetes >>>>>>>>>> Nurses I kept saying "Diabetes Nurse" and the >>>>>>>>>> Receptionist at the Surgery kept saying " Diabetic >>>>>>>>>> Nurse". Is Receptionist more correct than me? >>>>>>>>> Receptionist is no doubt correct in the sense that the >>>>>>>>> label used where she works is "Diabetic Nurse." If the >>>>>>>>> issue is which is correct in the abstract, I'd vote for >>>>>>>>> "Diabetes Nurse." "Diabetic Nurse" sounds at first blush >>>>>>>>> as if the nurse suffers from the disease. >>>>>>>> Agreed, but the form "diabetic nurse" does seem to be >>>>>>>> common use. As is (e.g.) "diabetic food". >>>>>>> Can this be a mild form of status reduction? >>>>>>> "Practice Nurse" is another such term. >>>>>>> I often wonder why some other title >>>>>>> is not substituted. >>>>>> What would you suggest? "Practice Nurse" is a job title >>>>>> that's been around since, well, since there have been nurses >>>>>> based in GP surgeries. >>>>> How about "Nurse"? >>>> Because the job of a Practice Nurse requires particular skills >>>> and experience. A Practice Nurse does a particular type of >>>> nursing. >>> I found the notion that "Diabetic Nurse" or "Practice Nurse" >>> are forms of status reduction really rather odd: I'd have said >>> they're precisely the opposite, as they indicate additional >>> professional skills than just an unadjectived "Nurse". >> I think the example of "Floor Nurse" illustrates the case >> quite well. >Perhaps; I don't think "Diabetic Nurse" does at all, though. >In that case -- and with "Practice Nurse" -- I'm willing to bet >that the addition of the speciality designator comes with higher >medical status than just "Nurse" (and higher pay). How many cancerous surgeons have you heard of? When will the practice get a real or healthy nurse? Pay irrelevant. Sub-message in job title is the issue. "Staff Nurse" would give the status designation. On 15 Jan 2009, wrote >> On 15 Jan 2009, wrote >>>> On 15 Jan 2009, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > Pay irrelevant. Sub-message in job title is the issue. > "Staff Nurse" would give the status designation. "Practice Nurse" and "Staff Nurse" are recognised and specific job titles; the former has more responsibility and independence, and I'm fairly sure is considerably higher in the medical pecking order. You can, of course, insult a Practice Nurse by insisting upon demoting her to an earlier stage of her career, but I'd rather not do that to someone who's about to do medical-type things to me. SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed [...] > How many cancerous surgeons have you heard of? > When will the practice get a real or healthy nurse? Yes, all well and good for language games, but, as you know, it doesn't work like that in real medical practice. > Pay irrelevant. Sub-message in job title is the issue. That subtextual message isn't actually /there/, though. > "Staff Nurse" would give the status designation. But "staff nurse" means something else again in the trade. In a British-style hospital he or she is the lowest rank of qualified nurse. SignatureMike. >[...] >> How many cancerous surgeons have you heard of? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >But "staff nurse" means something else again in the trade. In a >British-style hospital he or she is the lowest rank of qualified nurse. Except, of course, that agency nurses, many of whom are quite highly qualified, are not on staff and therefore not staff nurses. I met many during my time as an inpatient. Often they only wanted to work odd hours, part time, rather than the regular shifts expected of staff nurses. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England In article <77b582b8-f3d2-43a0-8b01-4f980f7dde75 @r10g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, semiretired@my-deja.com says... > >On 15 Jan 2009, wrote > >>> On 15 Jan 2009, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >>> they're precisely the opposite, as they indicate additional > >>> professional skills than just an unadjectived "Nurse". As an ex-nurse, I agree with you. > >> I think the example of "Floor Nurse" illustrates the case > >> quite well. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Pay irrelevant. Sub-message in job title is the issue. > "Staff Nurse" would give the status designation. But it's a different status. I was a staff nurse for a year or so. It just means "qualified ward-based nurse". Practice nurses are a different grade (higher) with a different status, extra training and qualifications SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >>On 15 Jan 2009, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote >>>On Thu, 15 Jan 2009 06:47:27 -0800 (PST), [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >I think the example of "Floor Nurse" illustrates the case >quite well. Are you perhaps misunderstanding the meaning of "practice"? It has nothing to do with learning. The Practice Nurse is not a trainee nurse. A Practice Nurse is a nurse who is part of a Medical Practice. It is meaning 1, not meaning 4, in the OED entry: practice, n. 1. The carrying out or exercise of a profession, esp. that of medicine or law. Also as a count noun: the business or premises of a doctor or lawyer. .... 4. Repeated exercise in or performance of an activity so as to acquire, improve, or maintain proficiency in it; activity undertaken to this end; .... I suddenly thought of this just now while I was lying down having my teeth cleaned by a dental hygienist at the dental practice I use: http://www.affinitydental.co.uk/ We would like to take this opportunity to welcome you to our practice. .... And here is a different set of professionals, the doctors who look after my health: http://www.btinternet.com/~thehill/ Welcome to: The Hill Medical Group Practice Follow the links to the left to learn more about our Practice and the service it provides. The Doctors: .... The Practice Manager: .... http://www.btinternet.com/~thehill/Access.htm Accessing Our Practice: .... SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On 15 Jan, 17:25, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: > Are you perhaps misunderstanding the meaning of "practice"? > It has nothing to do with learning. The Practice Nurse is not a trainee nurse. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > http://www.btinternet.com/~thehill/Access.htm > Accessing Our Practice: I fear you have missed the point entirely. Job titles susceptible to being scoffed at would appear to exist at the nurse level, but not at that of surgeon. I suggested this might be a mild form of status reduction. YMMV >I fear you have missed the point entirely. >Job titles susceptible to being scoffed at would >appear to exist at the nurse level, but not at >that of surgeon. I suggested this might be >a mild form of status reduction. YMMV You are right. I missed your point. I must say, though, that I have never detected any feeling of status reduction. Nurses know how hard they need to work to achieve the status represented by a particular title. There is at least one title that is open to weak jokes: "Geriatric Nurse". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>I fear you have missed the point entirely. >>Job titles susceptible to being scoffed at would >>appear to exist at the nurse level, but not at >>that of surgeon. I suggested this might be >>a mild form of status reduction. YMMV >You are right. I missed your point. >I must say, though, that I have never detected any [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >There is at least one title that is open to weak >jokes: "Geriatric Nurse". Apologies if my post came across a little harshly. Some job titles get inflated. Others clearly not. >Apologies if my post came across >a little harshly. Some job titles >get inflated. Others clearly not. That's OK. Whilst my post was in reply to yours I was making a general point that might have been of use to the OP, "Romanise". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) In article <9c3319b6-c45a-468c-b686-30b751576779 @v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, semiretired@my-deja.com says... > I think the example of "Floor Nurse" illustrates the case > quite well. What's a "floor nurse"? As far as I know, it's not a UK job title. SignatureLinz Wet Yorks via Cambridge, York, London and Watford My accent may vary >In article <9c3319b6-c45a-468c-b686-30b751576779 >@v5g2000prm.googlegroups.com>, semiretired@my-deja.com says... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >What's a "floor nurse"? As far as I know, it's not a UK job title. I did explain the use when I made first mention of it. In the US, a nurse who does not have any specialty beyond "registered nurse", and is assigned to a group of patient's rooms, is a "floor nurse". At one time, she might have been a "ward nurse", but "wards" have been replaced by "floors". The patient will be on "Three East" instead of in a ward. There are still some wards. Pediatrics, maternity, and burn units are often called wards. If several patients occupy one room, or have one room where they can congregate, it's a ward. Most hospital patients, though, are in private or two-person rooms. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> semireti...@my-deja.com says... > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > How about "Nurse"? "Practice" usefully distinguishes one who's on the staff from a visiting one. I doubt if anybody associates the word with inexperience in this context. If anything, I'd say sticking a specialist epithet such as "Diabetic" in front enhances status rather than detracting from it. But yes, I'd have chosen "Diabetes" if it had been up to me--and enough years ago. SignatureMike. >In article <e3f06958-4b11-4806-a4b2-3a796537ec69@ >35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>, semiretired@my-deja.com says... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >What would you suggest? "Practice Nurse" is a job title that's been >around since, well, since there have been nurses based in GP surgeries. In the US, the commonly used term to describe a nurse who does not practice a spaciality is "Floor Nurse". They do not wear badges to show that this is their job, thus avoiding calls to tend to ailing linoleum. The Floor Nurse's supervisor is usually called the "Charge Nurse". There is no extra fee if she attends a patient. A nurse who has no special assignment is called a "Float Nurse". She is not to be called when the toilet runs because the stopper hasn't seated. Our Attending physicians are often called "Staff Doctors", but are available to treat patients. Residents are doctors who do not live in the hospital. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> In article <e3f06958-4b11-4806-a4b2-3a796537ec69@ >> 35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>, semiretired@my-deja.com says... [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > That was worth a giggle. (The only chortle I've managed today was at the latest entry in Sara's excellent blog - http://www.lovelylisting.com/) SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>> In article <e3f06958-4b11-4806-a4b2-3a796537ec69@ >>> 35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>, semiretired@my-deja.com says... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> show that this is their job, thus avoiding calls to tend to ailing >> linoleum. I would not want to mislead the readers of this into thinking that US nurses have a "spaciality". Spacialities are done by specialists in spatials. Specialists in spatials are the people who move things around when you are not looking. When you trip over something that was not there the last time you looked, it's indication that you have been visited by a spacialitist. US nurses practice specialties. There is a tie-in here, though, since my wife is a nurse with a specialty, and she is also a part-time spacialitist. In this function, she specializes in the spatial rearrangement of familiar things by placing them "where they should be" instead of where they are expected to be. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony cooper filted: >>In article <e3f06958-4b11-4806-a4b2-3a796537ec69@ >>35g2000pry.googlegroups.com>, semiretired@my-deja.com says... [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >is not to be called when the toilet runs because the stopper hasn't >seated. "Have you been in a hospital recently? They got a different nurse for *everything*! First one comes in, says 'I'm the pill nurse' and gives me a pill. A few minutes later another one comes in, says 'I'm the shot nurse' and gives me a shot. Then one comes in and says 'I'm the head nurse'. Damn near gives me a heart attack." ....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >>>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>>> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Can this be a mild form of status reduction? >"Practice Nurse" is another such term. What country are these terms appearing in, may I ask? >I often wonder why some other title >is not substituted. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland > What country are these terms appearing in, may I ask? "Practice Nurse" - UK >> What country are these terms appearing in, may I ask? > >"Practice Nurse" - UK I was hoping someone would be more specific. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Agreed, but the form "diabetic nurse" does seem to be common use. As is >(e.g.) "diabetic food". Is this another example of how grocer's infamously mangle the language? SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland > > 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics > > 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Bob Lieblich > Not diabetic -- yet (thank God) Thanks both to "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" ( Is BrE for British English ) and Bob Lieblich. It will do me no good to inquire at the Surgery what the designation is. Surgery booklet though lists all 4 nurses there no one is given a designation. I know two of them are handling diabetes patients. However one step above a Surgery is NHS run Primary Care Trust where 6 nurses who in print are reffered to as Diabetes Specialist Nurses, under Department named Diabetes Specialist Nurse. >> > 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >> > 2 : affected with diabetes >> >> > Wanting to fix an appointment with one of Diabetes Nurses I kept >> > saying "Diabetes Nurse" and the Receptionist at the Surgery kept >> > saying " Diabetic Nurse". I think that use of "Diabetic Nurse" fits sense 1: "of or relating to diabetes or diabetics". It also fits the OED definition 1 below. The OED says: diabetic, a. A. adj. 1. Of or pertaining to diabetes or its treatment. 2. Affected with diabetes. B. n. One who suffers from diabetes. The "Diabetic Nurse" works cares for and treats diabetics, that is, people with diabetes. >> > Is Receptionist more correct than me? >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Thanks both to "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" ( Is BrE for British English ) >and Bob Lieblich. Yes. >It will do me no good to inquire at the Surgery what the designation >is. Surgery booklet though lists all 4 nurses there no one is given a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >nurses who in print are reffered to as Diabetes Specialist Nurses, >under Department named Diabetes Specialist Nurse. Another case of "diabetic" being used to qualify a noun is "diabetic chocolate". This is chocolate that is suitable for a diabetic, a person with diabetes. For example: http://www.handmadechocolates.co.uk/home.php?cat=251 SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >in the abstract, I'd vote for "Diabetes Nurse." "Diabetic Nurse" >sounds at first blush as if the nurse suffers from the disease. It seems so simple, I would think any native speaker would agree with you on this. Surely, a Diabetic Nurse implies that the nurse has diabetes. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >you on this. Surely, a Diabetic Nurse implies that the nurse has >diabetes. But then it would surely be written in lower case and might not appear on her badge at all. This thread began with the definition of diabetic from Merriam-Webster. I'll just add what the OED says about the adjective: 1. Of or pertaining to diabetes or its treatment. 2. Affected with diabetes. Sense 1 would seem to justify the term Diabetic Nurse, but I can understand why people (including myself) don't entirely like it. Has anyone here ever been treated by a geriatric nurse? James > On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:48:36 +0000, Chuck Riggs > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > But then it would surely be written in lower case and might not > appear on her badge at all. No badge is involved. Only my grasp of English made me keep saying "Diabetes Nurse" which receptionist in her mid twenty schooled in Britain kept saying "Diabetic Nurse". > This thread began with the definition of diabetic from > Merriam-Webster. I'll just add what the OED says about the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > James >> On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:48:36 +0000, Chuck Riggs >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >receptionist in her mid twenty schooled in Britain kept saying >"Diabetic Nurse". It had nothing to do with the receptionist's schooling and grasp of the English language. She was using the official title of the nurse. She was not giving her own description of the nurse. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On Jan 17, 10:51 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: > >> On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 12:48:36 +0000, Chuck Riggs > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > It had nothing to do with the receptionist's schooling and grasp of the > English language. She was using the official title of the nurse. I doubt if ever I will be able to find that out for sure. As I wrote earlier in NHS there are nurses that are described in print as "Diabetes Specialist Nurse". But on them too I have not seen any badge. > She was not > giving her own description of the nurse. > > -- > Peter Duncanson, UK > (in alt.usage.english) >>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>> 2 : affected with diabetes >>> Wanting to fix an appointment with one of Diabetes Nurses I kept >>> saying "Diabetes Nurse" and the Receptionist at the Surgery kept >>> saying " Diabetic Nurse". >>> Is Receptionist more correct than me? >> Receptionist is no doubt correct in the sense that the label used >> where she works is "Diabetic Nurse." If the issue is which is >> correct in the abstract, I'd vote for "Diabetes Nurse." "Diabetic >> Nurse" sounds at first blush as if the nurse suffers from the >> disease. > It seems so simple, I would think any native speaker would agree > with you on this. Surely, a Diabetic Nurse implies that the nurse > has diabetes. The counter-argument would be that a "diabetes nurse" is there to make sure the disease, not the patient, is given all needed support. As I see it, a diabetic nurse is one with poor blood-sugar control if "diabetic" is an adjective, and one that takes care of such patients if "diabetic" is a noun used attributively: a nurse for diabetics. >>>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>>> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >The counter-argument would be that a "diabetes nurse" is there to make >sure the disease, not the patient, is given all needed support. You got there just before I did! >As I see it, a diabetic nurse is one with poor blood-sugar control if >"diabetic" is an adjective, and one that takes care of such patients >if "diabetic" is a noun used attributively: a nurse for diabetics. Job titles can perhaps be best understood as abbreviations of the explanations of the job. A Cardiology Nurse does not nurse cardiology. Such a nurse is one who practices in the specialist area of cardiology. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >you on this. Surely, a Diabetic Nurse implies that the nurse has >diabetes. Only if you use an inappropriate definition of diabetic. I'll quote again from the OED: diabetic, a. A. adj. 1. Of or pertaining to diabetes or its treatment. 2. Affected with diabetes. In the title Diabetic Nurse the word "diabetic" has meaning 1, in particular the treatment of diabetes. It does not mean "affected with diabetes". Similarly with the definitions quoted from M-W by Romanise. Meaning 1 is relevant, not meaning 2: 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics 2 : affected with diabetes SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >>>> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics > 2 : affected with diabetes Now I finally see. It was definition 1 I wasn't considering. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>Similarly with the definitions quoted from M-W by Romanise. Meaning 1 is >>relevant, not meaning 2: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Now I finally see. It was definition 1 I wasn't considering. And nearer to home: an Electrical Engineer is not an engineer powered by electricity (in the absence of accidental contact!). This OED definition is relevant: electrical, adj. and n. 4. Of a person: skilled or expert in the science or use of electricity. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>Similarly with the definitions quoted from M-W by Romanise. Meaning 1 is >>>relevant, not meaning 2: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > 4. Of a person: skilled or expert in the science or use of electricity. Good point. In fact, you never see "Electricity Engineer", which parallels "Diabetes Nurse". The group has me convinced; "Diabetic Nurse", it is. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland Chuck Riggs filted: >Good point. In fact, you never see "Electricity Engineer", which >parallels "Diabetes Nurse". The group has me convinced; "Diabetic >Nurse", it is. Glad that's settled...if you'd like, I'll try to find video of the SNL sketch in which Laraine Newman plays a "child psychologist" who seems to be about six years old....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >Chuck Riggs filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >which Laraine Newman plays a "child psychologist" who seems to be about six >years old....r Thanks, Ron, but this machine is too slow for videos. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland Chuck Riggs filted: >>Glad that's settled...if you'd like, I'll try to find video of the SNL sketch in >>which Laraine Newman plays a "child psychologist" who seems to be about six >>years old....r > >Thanks, Ron, but this machine is too slow for videos. Does it kill fascists?...r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" >Chuck Riggs filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Does it kill fascists?...r "This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender," Tom repeated. James > >Chuck Riggs filted: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender," > Tom repeated. Give that man a seegar! -- Jerry Friedman, predictable > 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics > 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is Receptionist more correct than me? I too prefer "Diabetes Nurse", just as I'd prefer "Complexity-Theory Approach" to the "Complexity-Theoretic Approach" mentioned by Paul Wolff in the "worst books" thread. (I'm grateful for the hyphen, though.) -- Jerry Friedman >> 1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >> 2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Wolff in the "worst books" thread. (I'm grateful for the hyphen, > though.) I prefer "diabetes nurse" as well, but the other is readily understandable and reasonably idoiomatic. I wouldn't be surprised to hear either of them in the wild. Signatureathel >1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics >2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Is Receptionist more correct than me? The receptionist probably knows the nurse's medical history better than you do. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > >1 : of or relating to diabetes or diabetics > >2 : affected with diabetes [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > The receptionist probably knows the nurse's medical history better than you > do. Out of 4 nurses at the Surgery two alternately work as Diabetes Nurse besides other check ups. Have met both and they appear in excellent health. Receptionist books one earliest available. So very much doubt if nurse's own diabetes was referred to. > -- > Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa > Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm > Blog:http://methodius.blogspot.com > E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
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