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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009An x's x
The hero pilot is "a pilot's pilot". I heard that construction before (a man's man, a doctor's doctor etc) and I know it's something positive, but I cannot grasp the exact meaning. Your enlightening will be appreciated. >The hero pilot is "a pilot's pilot". > >I heard that construction before (a man's man, a doctor's doctor etc) >and I know it's something positive, but I cannot grasp the exact >meaning. Your enlightening will be appreciated. An "X's X" is an X whom other Xs would consider to embody the best and most admirable characteristics of the group (sometimes profession) of Xs. While "pilot's", "man's" and "doctor's" are singular, the sense is of any "pilot", "man" or "doctor" (or "X").  SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On Jan 17, 10:07�am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: > On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 06:45:20 -0800 (PST), Arcadian Rises > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > While "pilot's", "man's" and "doctor's" are singular, the sense is of any > "pilot", "man" or "doctor" (or "X"). It might have been plural, I didn't hear where the apotrophe was placed. Thank you very much for your enlightening explanation. > On Jan 17, 10:07�am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.n > et> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > It might have been plural, I didn't hear where the apotrophe was > placed. Not even in "man's"? Seriously, though, the expression _is_ singular: we say "man's man" not "men's man". > Thank you very much for your enlightening explanation. Signatureathel >On Jan 17, 10:07?am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> >wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Thank you very much for your enlightening explanation. The OED says: man's man n. a man whose qualities are appreciated by other men; a man who is popular with other men. In the case of professionals or skilled individuals if an X needed the services of an X an "X's X" is the type that an X would wish to choose or have in charge. So a pilot travelling as a passenger in a plane that got into trouble would want a pilot's pilot at the controls. A sick doctor would wish to be treated by a doctor's doctor (of the right medical specialty of course). Point for debate: Is it possible for a man's man to be a lady's man? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > Point for debate: Is it possible for a man's man to be a lady's man? Why not? if it's a straight man. In the realm of crosswords "a man's man" is a vallet. >> Point for debate: Is it possible for a man's man to be a lady's man? > > Why not? if it's a straight man. > > In the realm of crosswords "a man's man" is a vallet. Vat haf you got in your vallet? SignatureLes (BrE) >> Point for debate: Is it possible for a man's man to be a lady's man? > > Why not? if it's a straight man. > > In the realm of crosswords "a man's man" is a vallet. Oh, and a gentleman's gentleman? Pat wrote on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:14:18 -0600: >>> Point for debate: Is it possible for a man's man to be a lady's >>> man? >>> >> Why not? if it's a straight man. >> >> In the realm of crosswords "a man's man" is a vallet. >Oh, and a gentleman's gentleman? Certainly! However, even the New York Times crosswords can have you tearing your hair in exasperation about the answers. That might make a good topic for discussion. SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not > >> Point for debate: Is it possible for a man's man to be a lady's man? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Oh, and a gentleman's gentleman? That's the right definition, my bad. >> Point for debate: Is it possible for a man's man to be a lady's man? > >Why not? if it's a straight man. I see no reason to imbed the question mark in this case. I'd write "Why not, if he's a straight man?" >In the realm of crosswords "a man's man" is a vallet. I'd argue for a comma after crosswords, which I further would have spelled out as "crossword puzzles", since this is an English usage group and not a chat room. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland > On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 10:04:20 -0800 (PST), Arcadian Rises > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I see no reason to imbed the question mark in this case. I'd write > "Why not, if he's a straight man?" That was my first choice, but I decided against it and also [decided on the spur of the moment] to be more crerative with the punctuation. The way I did it follows the natural inflection of the voice. > >In the realm of crosswords "a man's man" is a vallet. > > I'd argue for a comma after crosswords, which I further would have > spelled out as "crossword puzzles", since this is an English usage > group and not a chat room. > -- True, thank you. Peter wrote on Sat, 17 Jan 2009 17:56:28 +0000: >> On Jan 17, 10:07?am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" >> <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> cannot grasp the exact meaning. Your enlightening will be >> >> appreciated. > A sick doctor would wish to be treated by a doctor's doctor > (of the right medical specialty of course). And expect professional courtesy on the fee. SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not > Point for debate: Is it possible for a man's man to be a lady's man? Yes, but also likely that he'd be a ladies' man. SignatureLew >The hero pilot is "a pilot's pilot". > >I heard that construction before (a man's man, a doctor's doctor etc) >and I know it's something positive, but I cannot grasp the exact >meaning. Your enlightening will be appreciated. A (term)'s (term) is a person who is highly respected by the other people in the same field. A "pilot's pilot" is a pilot that other pilots respect above other pilots for his skills as a pilot. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> The hero pilot is "a pilot's pilot". >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > people in the same field. A "pilot's pilot" is a pilot that other > pilots respect above other pilots for his skills as a pilot. Such as the one here: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549> SignatureLew >>> The hero pilot is "a pilot's pilot". >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Such as the one here: ><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549> I had assume it was the uss of the phrase about that pilot that prompted the OP to ask about its meaning. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>The hero pilot is "a pilot's pilot". >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >A (term)'s (term) is a person who is highly respected by the other >people in the same field. Except when the phrase is used sarcastically, as it often is. Is that an example of "faint praise"? > A "pilot's pilot" is a pilot that other >pilots respect above other pilots for his skills as a pilot. You've reminded me to put my awards from Microsoft for my skills in "Flight Simulator" on the wall, if I can find them. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >The hero pilot is "a pilot's pilot". > >I heard that construction before (a man's man, a doctor's doctor etc) >and I know it's something positive, but I cannot grasp the exact >meaning. Your enlightening will be appreciated. He is to other pilots what a pilot is to an ordinary person. Sort of a pilot squared. SignatureJohn In a plane full of pilots, there is one guy who is called upon to do the piloting, because he's the best. He's the one who can take the controls of a stalled passenger jet, steer it around a whole lot of skyscrapers, avoid a bridge or two and land it on a river before safely disembarking all the passengers and checking all the seats before getting off himself. Most of the other pilots couldn't have done that, and they will cheerfully admit it. He's the "pilot's pilot". |
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