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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009Blighter
Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider this? Arne H. Wilstrup Denmark > Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a > synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider > this? It's wrong--or, rather, misleading through omission. In British-type English, both "beggar" and "blighter" are used, though I think decreasingly often, as fairly mild non-specific terms of opprobrium. Considering that neither is intended to be taken literally, but to express the speaker's /attitude/, they are close to, but not actually, synonymous. Nevertheless, note that, used in this way, "beggar" would generally be interpreted as a euphemism for "bugger", so some would regard it as stronger than "blighter". To complicate matters, we do also use even strong terms of opprobrium in a friendly way; but foreign learners shouldn't try to imitate.  SignatureMike. >> Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a >> synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > To complicate matters, we do also use even strong terms of opprobrium > in a friendly way; but foreign learners shouldn't try to imitate. It's worth adding that "poor blighter/beggar/bugger" are frequently used to indicate pity rather than opprobrium. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au -------------------8>< >> To complicate matters, we do also use even strong terms of opprobrium >> in a friendly way; but foreign learners shouldn't try to imitate. > > It's worth adding that "poor blighter/beggar/bugger" are frequently used > to indicate pity rather than opprobrium. As an aside, so is "poor bastard". > -------------------8>< >>> To complicate matters, we do also use even strong terms of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > As an aside, so is "poor bastard". So different from the "lucky blighter/beggar/bugger/bastard"s. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >To complicate matters, we do also use even strong terms of opprobrium in >a friendly way; but foreign learners shouldn't try to imitate. I first heard "blighter" used, by a Dutch riding school teacher, of a fractious horse. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>To complicate matters, we do also use even strong terms of opprobrium in >>a friendly way; but foreign learners shouldn't try to imitate. > > I first heard "blighter" used, by a Dutch riding school teacher, of a > fractious horse. They have quarter horse racing at the county fair in August. >>>To complicate matters, we do also use even strong terms of opprobrium in >>>a friendly way; but foreign learners shouldn't try to imitate. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >They have quarter horse racing at the county fair in August. Do they hang and draw the blighters as well? SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>> I first heard "blighter" used, by a Dutch riding school teacher, of >>> a fractious horse. >> >> They have quarter horse racing at the county fair in August. > > Do they hang and draw the blighters as well? No, but they have a three-legged race for the other bits. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>>>To complicate matters, we do also use even strong terms of opprobrium in >>>>a friendly way; but foreign learners shouldn't try to imitate. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Do they hang and draw the blighters as well? That reminded me of General Zia about President Bhutto. I'm not sure if you were alluding to it too subtly for me. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu >> I first heard "blighter" used, by a Dutch riding school >> teacher, of a >> fractious horse. I first heard "blighter" used in the film My Fair Lady where Eliza Doolittle sings: "...is all that you blighters can do?" - when the young man woo her. She is annoyed that he always talk about love instead of showing her. Arne H. Wilstrup Denmark > Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a > synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider > this? For me, "blighter" is a general epithet for a "person who is a nuisance" -- in other words, non-specific, negative, but not extreme. To my knowledge it is used only of male persons and never of females. "Beggar" is used in a similar way (hence, presumably your dictionary entries), and this use is different from the other, specific meaning of "beggar" as someone who begs for alms. For example, my mother used to use the expressions "cheeky blighter" and "cheeky beggar" almost interchangeably. No doubt someone will be along to discuss "beggars are a blight on this fair city" and the relevant etymological ins and outs. SignatureLes (BrE) > Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a > synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider > this? I am not a native speaker, but I think your dictionaries are wrong, or the word you find does not mean "beggar". Using Google, I cannot find any definition of "blighter" that supports your claim. > Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a > synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider > this? As a native AmE speaker, I consider it a British word whose meaning I am not entirely sure of. I tend to imagine that it means "beggar" only (mostly?) in a figurative sense -- not someone who is actually begging for money in the streets but someone who is unfortunate, down on his luck, or in some way less than respectable (also used jocularly). There will undoubtedly be a Brit or three along presently with the straight poop. SignatureRoland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food. NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it. >> Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a >> synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > straight > poop. I always took it as the Brit equivelent of the Americanism "poor SOB". >Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a >synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider >this? I consider that it isn't true, if by "beggar" you mean someone who lives by soliciting alms from passers-by. But there is a use of "beggar" in English as a dismissive name for a poor, annoying or contemptible person, which is the meaning of "blighter". In some cases, but not all, I think that that "beggar" is an alternative to "bugger". That is "bugger" in the same sense (annoying, contemptible) rather than the explicit sexual sense. So you can call some idiot poster a silly blighter or a silly beggar or a silly bugger, and they are all much of a muchness, except that "silly bugger" may be considered offensive in some kinds of company. It may not actually /be/ offensive, but the parties may feel obliged to behave as if it /were/ offensive, for the sake of preserving social convention. The outcome is this: their principal meanings are distinct, but there are occasions when "blighter" and "beggar" are interchangeable, and pretty well synonymous. SignaturePaul >>Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a >>synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > but there are occasions when "blighter" and "beggar" are > interchangeable, and pretty well synonymous. >"Paul Wolff" <bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> skrev i meddelelsen >news:5UuqC4Th5idJFABA@fpwolff.demon.co.uk... [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> but there are occasions when "blighter" and "beggar" are >> interchangeable, and pretty well synonymous. I'll take that as full agreement! SignaturePaul >> "Paul Wolff" <bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> skrev i meddelelsen >> news:5UuqC4Th5idJFABA@fpwolff.demon.co.uk... [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >> > I'll take that as full agreement! Rex Curry would, after all. SignatureMike. > Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a > synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider > this? "Blighter" was everyday slang early in the 20th century, that perhaps vanished more recently. It had two meanings: 1: neutral, like chap, fellow, etc. (cf. P.G. Wodehouse.) 2: mildly disapproving. We might say "I saw a parking space but some blighter in a Ford moved in ahead of me." Neither meaning has anything to do with mendicancy. SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) >Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a >synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider >this? "Blighter" and "beggar" can be synonyms, but not with the literal meaning of "beggar". OED: blighter 2. slang. A contemptible or unpleasant person; often merely as an extravagant substitute for fellow. beggar 6. As a term of contempt: a. = Mean or low fellow. The phrases "silly beggar" and "silly blighter" both mean "silly person" in a disparaging way. The Dictionary of Slang says: http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/b.htm beggar Noun. Euphemism for 'bugger'. OED does not say that "beggar" is a euphemism for "bugger". But if "beggar" is a euphemism it is for this meaning, particularly the milder version: bugger, n.1 2.b. In low language a coarse term of abuse or insult; often, however, simply = chap, customer, fellow. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > bugger, n.1 > > 2.b. In low language a coarse term of abuse or insult; often, however, > simply = 'chap', 'customer', 'fellow'. Customer? That surprises me.. >> bugger, n.1 >> >> 2.b. In low language a coarse term of abuse or insult; often, however, >> simply = 'chap', 'customer', 'fellow'. > > Customer? That surprises me.. It's "customer" in the sense of "chap" and has nothing to do with buying anything. A common expression is "a rum customer", meaning a slightly eccentric person (and not someone purchasing an additive to make orange juice a bit more interesting). In other words, "customer" has been hi-jacked from its original meaning, just as "beggar" was upthread. SignatureLes (BrE) >Ulvir wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >juice a bit more interesting). In other words, "customer" has been >hi-jacked from its original meaning, just as "beggar" was upthread. I'm not familiar with a rum customer as a standard phrase, though it is a perfectly valid phrase. A rum cove might have been found in certain dated yarns of the last century. An ugly customer is less dated and means a ruffian. SignaturePaul >>Ulvir wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > certain dated yarns of the last century. An ugly customer is less > dated and means a ruffian. COED has: =================== blighter . noun Brit. informal a person regarded with contempt, irritation, or pity. But: Blighty . noun Brit. informal Britain or England, as used by soldiers serving abroad. - ORIGIN first used by soldiers in the Indian army: from Urdu, 'foreign, European'. ============= But there is no note as to any transfer from "Blighty" to "blighter", although one is given to wonder. (blighter. . .someone from Blighty?) >COED has: >=================== [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >But there is no note as to any transfer from "Blighty" to "blighter", >although one is given to wonder. (blighter. . .someone from Blighty?) The OED entry for "blighter" has the literal meaning and then the slang one we are discussing: 1. Anything that blights. 2. slang. A contemptible or unpleasant person; often merely as an extravagant substitute for fellow. Also transf. blight, v. 1. trans. To affect with BLIGHT (see the n., sense 1). 2. fig. To exert a baleful influence on; to destroy the brightness, beauty, or promise of; to nip in the bud, mar, frustrate. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [...] > I'm not familiar with a rum customer as a standard phrase, though it is > a perfectly valid phrase. A rum cove might have been found in certain > dated yarns of the last century. An ugly customer is less dated and > means a ruffian. I'm not sure how one should define a "standard phrase". Although it came instantly to my mind while writing my previous post, a quick Google reveals that "rum customer" is not as common as I would have imagined, especially as the numbers are boosted greatly by the racehorse of that name. However, there are references to its use by both H.G. Wells [1] and Charles Dickens [2], so, even if dated, the phrase is at least respectable (like my good self). [1] <http://www.bookstacks.org/wells/invisible/invis07.html> ?That?s him!? said Hall. ?What the devil?s this?? came in a tone of angry expostulation from above the collar of the figure. ?You?re a damned rum customer, mister,? said Mr. Jaffers. ?But ?ed or no ?ed, the warrant says ?body,? and duty?s duty?? ?Keep off!? said the figure, starting back. [2] <http://www.online-literature.com/dickens/bleakhouse/48/> ?The man is known to me, sir,? returns the trooper, after blowing out a cloud of smoke, and squaring his chest; ?and the boy is so far correct that he undoubtedly is a ? rum customer.? Mr George smokes with a profound meaning after this, and surveys Miss Flite in silence." SignatureLes (BrE) > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > he undoubtedly is a ? rum customer.? Mr George smokes with a profound > meaning after this, and surveys Miss Flite in silence." How about "queer customer"? I find that in Dickens. As with many of the phrases discussed in this thread, it's slightly dated. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu [...] > How about "queer customer"? I find that in Dickens. As with many of > the phrases discussed in this thread, it's slightly dated. Musing over it, perhaps one should err on the side of caution when designating a group of words as a Phrase rather than just a phrase. The fact that a particular expression crops up more than once might simply mean that the writer(s) fancied it at the time; it needn't mean that the expression has been concreted into the language. SignatureLes (BrE) [...] > I'm not familiar with a rum customer as a standard phrase, though it > is a perfectly valid phrase. A rum cove might have been found in > certain dated yarns of the last century. An ugly customer is less > dated and means a ruffian. "Cove" lasted longer in AusE than in BrE. A rum do. An English shopkeeper once told me the tale of an old grocer visiting the zoo with a friend. Friend, contemplating a gorilla, said "There's an ugly customer!" Quoth the other, "I've been a grocer for forty years, and I've never seen an ugly customer." SignatureMike. >>Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a >>synonym for beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > 2.b. In low language a coarse term of abuse or insult; often, however, > simply = chap, customer, fellow. It pops up in "My Fair Lady" in the line "Is that all you blighters can do?" when, as I recall, the flower girl is complaining for the umpteenth time about the professors continual corrections to her cockney accent. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland > Our dictionaries tell us Danes that the word "blighter" is a synonym for > beggar. How do you - as native speakers - consider this? Your Danish dictionary is incorrect. The Oxford Encyclopedic English Dictionary gives:- blighter: person (especially as a term of contempt or disparagement) It then gives the derivation of the word as BLIGHT + ER The definition of blight as a verb is:- blight (v): 1. to affect with blight, 2. harm, destroy, 3. spoil A blighter is therefore a person who is harmful to the environment in which he lives, e.g. an incompetent in an office, a vandal, a graffitist, or anybody else whose presence you wish to be rid of. I think I can see where your dictionary obtained their incorrect idea from. The common expressions "stupid blighter!", "stupid beggar!" and "stupid bugger!" all mean approximately the same thing. All three are a mild rebuke for somebody's folly. But the fact that these three expressions all mean the same thing does not imply that a blighter is the same as a beggar, any more than it implies that a beggar is the same as a bugger. Richard Chambers Leeds UK. |
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