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Discussion Groups / English Usage / January 2009"I spent money to buy something"
Hi, I have a question about the meaning of this sentence: "I spent one hundred dollars to buy this skirt." One (possible) scenario could be, say, a friend came to visit me. She showed me a new skirt she just bought, and said "I spent one hundred dollars to buy this skirt." ... If you were me, would you feel this sentence seems to stop prematurely? (Maybe it sounds like she'd trying to tell me her purpose of buying this skirt, or something else) Or it's just unremarkable and you'd just take it as it is, and simply acknowledge the fact that she got a skirt? Maybe it sounds to you like "I spent one hundred dollars on this skirt" and that's the end of this complete sentence. I hope I'm making myself clear... Thanks,  SignatureDJ DJ set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > showed me a new skirt she just bought, and said "I spent one hundred > dollars to buy this skirt." ... In BrE such a statement (substituting a more appropriate currency unit) would be taken as a rant against a price thought to be excessive. Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply D.J.: > I have a question about the meaning of this sentence: > "I spent one hundred dollars to buy this skirt." Nothing wrong with it. It suggests that the speaker thinks the price was high. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "Where is down special?" ... "Good." msb@vex.net | "Do you refuse to answer my question?" "Don't know." > D.J.: >> I have a question about the meaning of this sentence: >> "I spent one hundred dollars to buy this skirt." > > Nothing wrong with it. It suggests that the speaker thinks the > price was high. Perhaps *you* think the price was high. There's nothing in the sentence that indicates the purchaser felt that the item was expensive. In fact, there *is* something wrong with that sentence. She spent a hundred dollars. OK. In order to do what? In order to buy a skirt. It's conceivable that she spent a hundred dollars for a membership to some sort of buying club which gave her the privilege of buying that skirt for an undisclosed sum. Granted, that's probably not what was meant, but the sentence is very sloppy. > Perhaps *you* think the price was high. There's nothing in the sentence > that indicates the purchaser felt that the item was expensive. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > some sort of buying club which gave her the privilege of buying that > skirt for an undisclosed sum. Yup, this is what I wanted to know. (and it seems like some people feel this way and some don't...(?) ) > Granted, that's probably not what was meant, but the sentence is very > sloppy. SignatureDJ > > D.J.: > >> I have a question about the meaning of this sentence: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Granted, that's probably not what was meant, but the sentence is very > sloppy. "I spent a hundred dollars on this skirt" would be more natural in AmE and would remove the ambiguity. SignatureJohn Varela Trade OLD lamps for NEW for email > "I spent a hundred dollars on this skirt" would be more natural in > AmE and would remove the ambiguity. But arguably introducing other ambiguities, as there's no indication that the cost was related to purchasing it. Cleaning or repair are other possible ways to spend money on a garment. Brian SignatureIf televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up. -- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com) > > > "I spent a hundred dollars on this skirt" would be more natural in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that the cost was related to purchasing it. Cleaning or repair are > other possible ways to spend money on a garment. In most conversations context would make the meaning clear, but "I paid a hundred dollars for this skirt" removes all doubt. (However, I'm sure someone will contort an ambiguity out of even that.) SignatureJohn Varela Trade OLD lamps for NEW for email >>> D.J.: >>>> I have a question about the meaning of this sentence: >>>> "I spent one hundred dollars to buy this skirt." [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > "I spent a hundred dollars on this skirt" would be more natural in > AmE and would remove the ambiguity. I'd say, "I paid a hundred dollars for this skirt." Not that I would do that, of course. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >> "I spent a hundred dollars on this skirt" would be more natural in >> AmE and would remove the ambiguity. > > I'd say, "I paid a hundred dollars for this skirt." Not that I would > do that, of course. Well, not *that* skirt. It does nothing for your legs. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |"You can't prove it *isn't* so!" is 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |as good as Q.E.D. in folk logic--as Palo Alto, CA 94304 |though it were necessary to submit |a piece of the moon to chemical kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |analysis before you could be sure (650)857-7572 |that it was not made of green |cheese. http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Bergen Evans > >> "I spent a hundred dollars on this skirt" would be more natural in > >> AmE and would remove the ambiguity. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > |cheese. > http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Bergen Evans http://www.englishforums.com/English/SpendMoneyDoing/zxdbd/post.htm > > >> "I spent a hundred dollars on this skirt" would be more natural in > > >> AmE and would remove the ambiguity. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I spent thirty dollars ___ the skirt. (A) buy (B) to buy (C) bought (D) buying The answer is option D. Is option B also acceptable? > I spent thirty dollars ___ the skirt. (A) buy (B) to buy (C) bought > (D) buying > > The answer is option D. Is option B also acceptable? Sort of. Someone else upthread (and I'm too lazy just now to look up who) pointed out that "option B" could mean that one spent thirty dollars just to qualify oneself to buy it. It's conceivable that the speaker of "B" actually had to spend some additional unspecified amount for the price of the skirt itself. "E) on" would be even better if the intent is to describe the price of the skirt. Usually the "to buy" construct would apply to prerequisites: "I waited on the queue six hours to buy tickets, then I spent sixty quid apiece on them!" SignatureLew >> I spent thirty dollars ___ the skirt. (A) buy (B) to buy (C) bought >> (D) buying [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > speaker of "B" actually had to spend some additional unspecified > amount for the price of the skirt itself. I get that more for (D) than for (B). It would also cover cases in which I got a parking ticket or got into an accident and had to repair my car. Or if I got lost and wound up having to pay tolls to cross and recross a bridge. Or if I had to bribe somebody. Or if I had to pay for alterations or shipping. > "E) on" would be even better if the intent is to describe the price > of the skirt. I think I can get the non-price costs there, too. > Usually the "to buy" construct would apply to prerequisites: > "I waited on the queue six hours to buy tickets, then I spent sixty > quid apiece on them!" SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If a bus station is where a bus 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |stops, and a train station is where Palo Alto, CA 94304 |a train stops, what does that say |about a workstation? kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> I spent thirty dollars ___ the skirt. (A) buy (B) to buy (C) bought >> (D) buying [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >"I waited on the queue six hours to buy tickets, then I spent sixty quid >apiece on them!" I really can't figure out what these text books are trying to teach. (B) and (D) are acceptable, but the normal structure of that sentence is "I spent thirty dollars on that skirt". Or, even, "I spent thirty dollars for that skirt". That's the way an American would deliver that sentence. If the intent is to teach conversational AmE, almost every example I see from these texts fail miserably. If the intent is to teach the usage of the forms of "buy", then the question should be "I (A) buy (B) to buy (C) bought (D) buying that skirt for thirty dollars" with the correct answer as (C). From the examples I see, whoever is being taught is often taught that the wrong answer is right, or taught to speak in ways that don't resemble normal spoken AmE. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> I spent thirty dollars ___ the skirt. (A) buy (B) to buy (C) bought >>> (D) buying >>> >>> The answer is option D. Is option B also acceptable? .... .... > From the examples I see, whoever is being taught is often taught that > the wrong answer is right, or taught to speak in ways that don't > resemble normal spoken AmE. I hope this thread could at least knock some sense out of Stephen. He is the person presented this test question in another forum (and how I got curious about this usage). When someone else mentioned the sentence with "to buy" could mean something else, this Stephen said "No American speakers think so". His source? A ONE-LINE comment from ONE native speaker in an ESL/EFL website -- "It is to me". All he cares is if a sentence is "acceptable"--let context be damned. I surely hope Stephen isn't going to teach his students that. SignatureDJ >>>> I spent thirty dollars ___ the skirt. (A) buy (B) to buy (C) bought >>>> (D) buying >>>> >>>> The answer is option D. Is option B also acceptable? >> From the examples I see, whoever is being taught is often taught that >> the wrong answer is right, or taught to speak in ways that don't >> resemble normal spoken AmE. > I hope this thread could at least knock some sense out of > Stephen. He is the person presented this test question in [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > I surely hope Stephen isn't going to teach his students that. I've finaly sorted out the only situation in which I would say "I spent thirty dollars to buy this skirt." and it's an odd one. I would use that construction only if I was referring to an additional cost *beyond the purchase price* of the skirt. That is, if I had to, for example, take the train to Chicago to buy it and the train cost me thirty dollars. Then I might say "I spent thirty dollars to buy this skirt." That is the only circumstance that I would use that construction in; otherwise I would say "This skirt cost thirty dollars.", "I spent thirty dollars on this skirt." or "This skirt was thirty dollars." >>>>> I spent thirty dollars ___ the skirt. (A) buy (B) to buy (C) bought >>>>> (D) buying [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >"This skirt cost thirty dollars.", "I spent thirty dollars on this skirt." >or "This skirt was thirty dollars." This goes to the point of my question about what is being taught. If the exercise is to teach the use of buy/bought/to buy/have bought, it's acceptable to use sentences that are grammatically correct but would not always be the natural choice in phrasing. If the exercise is to teach conversational English, then the sentences should be formed in normal conversational manner. Of course, I would prefer to see a grammatically correct version that is also conversationally natural. I don't get the impression, though, that the writers of questions have the slightest idea of what is conversationally natural in English. Discussions about whether or not the cost represents the cost of skirt or the cost of acquiring the skirt including train fare are, in my opinion, completely irrelevant. The lesson is not about eliminating ambiguity. The lesson is either about the right choice of the form of the word or about how to use the right choice of the word in conversational English. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida [...] > I don't get the impression, though, that the writers of questions have > the slightest idea of what is conversationally natural in English. [...] I have the strong impression that "face-saving" is often involved in these cases. Just as, we are informed, pilots from a few cultures won't "do a go-round" if they don't like an approach for any reason or no tangible reason, so an item-writer may have difficulty in admitting that what he wrote was less than perfect, or in asking for help. SignatureMike. > I've finaly sorted out the only situation ... I must say thank you for this extra effort you put. SignatureDJ >>>> I spent thirty dollars ___ the skirt. (A) buy (B) to buy (C) bought >>>> (D) buying [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I hope this thread could at least knock some sense out of >Stephen. I dunno what you had in mind when you typed that statement, but it seems that you feel that Stephen can't spare any sense. Surely, you meant "knock some sense *into* Stephen". > He is the person presented this test question in >another forum (and how I got curious about this usage). [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I surely hope Stephen isn't going to teach his students that. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > I dunno what you had in mind when you typed that statement, but it > seems that you feel that Stephen can't spare any sense. Surely, you > meant "knock some sense *into* Stephen". Ooops. Yes. *into* Thanks! SignatureDJ I constantly make this "xxx out of xxx" mistakes, grrr >> I dunno what you had in mind when you typed that statement, but it >> seems that you feel that Stephen can't spare any sense. Surely, you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Thanks! Don't worry. Unlike Coop's "Mom and potato pie", which was meant to be funny but which could confuse learners, it was a mere typo, not really worth mentioning, IMO. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland D.J.: >>> I have a question about the meaning of this sentence: >>> "I spent one hundred dollars to buy this skirt." Mark Brader: >> Nothing wrong with it. It suggests that the speaker thinks the >> price was high. "Alan": > Perhaps *you* think the price was high. Me? I haven't seen the skirt. > There's nothing in the sentence that indicates the purchaser felt > that the item was expensive. The choice of wording does. "This skirt cost a hundred dollars" or "The price of this skirt was a hundred dollars" or "I paid a hundred dollars for this skirt" would be neutral. Spelling out "one hundred" puts a bit of emphasis on the number, and coupling it with "I spent" emphasizes the cost to the speaker. In other words, the speaker thought the price was high. SignatureMark Brader /"\ ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN msb@vex.net \ / AGAINST HTML MAIL Toronto X AND NEWS / \ My text in this article is in the public domain. > D.J.: >>>> I have a question about the meaning of this sentence: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > with "I spent" emphasizes the cost to the speaker. In other words, > the speaker thought the price was high. A unique interpretation Mark Brader: >> ... In other words, the speaker thought the price was high. "Alan": > A unique interpretation No, I'm not the only person in the thread to say so. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "I don't have *any* minions any more." msb@vex.net -- Clive Feather > Mark Brader: >>> ... In other words, the speaker thought the price was high. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No, I'm not the only person in the thread to say so. You're right, it's not unique --- of the 20 or so opinions given, you and Prai Jei seem to be the only ones interpreting it that way. >> Mark Brader: >>>> ... In other words, the speaker thought the price was high. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > You're right, it's not unique --- of the 20 or so opinions given, you > and Prai Jei seem to be the only ones interpreting it that way. Has that flavour for me, too. SignatureMike. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I hope I'm making myself clear... To me the sentence sounds stilted. More normal would be "this skirt cost a hundred bucks". >> One (possible) scenario could be, say, a friend came to visit me. She >> showed me a new skirt she just bought, and said "I spent one hundred [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> like "I spent one hundred dollars on this skirt" and that's the end >> of this complete sentence. Prai Jei wrote: Mark Brader wrote: Thanks you all. If I may push my luck a little(I promise this is the last) and change it to: "I spent twenty dollars to buy this skirt" (or a price range that's normal--not too high, not too low(I'd love a bargain too) ) Would this make a difference? (Say, simply unremarkable, or ...?) SignatureDJ > >> One (possible) scenario could be, say, a friend came to visit me. She > >> showed me a new skirt she just bought, and said "I spent one hundred [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Would this make a difference? (Say, simply unremarkable, or ...?) I still think "$20 on this skirt" is more usual. The sentence, to me, suggests that she did something that enabled her to buy the skirt and that the actual price is not mentioned. Compare "I pawned my ring to buy this skirt". SignatureRob Bannister > > >> One (possible) scenario could be, say, a friend came to visit > > me. She >> showed me a new skirt she just bought, and said "I spent [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > that the actual price is not mentioned. Compare "I pawned my ring to > buy this skirt". I think the original sentence is odd, and I would interpret it to mean that the skirt cost $20, but I'd never phrase it that way. I can see what you mean. But does "I spent $20 on this skirt" mean that the skirt cost $20, or that the cleaning cost was $20? What about "I spent $20 on this girl"? Does that mean the girl cost $20, or you used $20 for something related to the girl? > What about "I spent $20 on this girl"? Does that mean the girl cost > $20, or you used $20 for something related to the girl? I'll never tell ... SignatureSkitt (AmE) [...] [concerning: "I spent 'x' dollars to buy this skirt."] > I still think "$20 on this skirt" is more usual. The sentence, to me, > suggests that she did something that enabled her to buy the skirt and > that the actual price is not mentioned. Compare "I pawned my ring to buy > this skirt". I agree. I don't think I've ever heard the construction "I spent 'x' dollars to buy this skirt" in the sense of that being the price of the skirt (and I have certainly never said it). OTOH, "I spent $20 dollars buying this skirt" does sound OK to me. SignatureLes (BrE) >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >I hope I'm making myself clear... If you heard this in conversation, or read it in a blog, the sentence should not seem either remarkable or worthy of comment. People talk that way. If you heard or saw the sentence in some form that was edited or prepared for distribution, you might wonder about the speaker. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida OOps, I sent my last post before I saw yours. > If you heard this in conversation, or read it in a blog, the sentence > should not seem either remarkable or worthy of comment. People talk > that way. > > If you heard or saw the sentence in some form that was edited or > prepared for distribution, you might wonder about the speaker. The last part is a good info. Thanks. SignatureDJ >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > If you heard or saw the sentence in some form that was edited or > prepared for distribution, you might wonder about the speaker. Good point. We hear many oddities in conversation without even noticing them; it's only when they're in print, we get picky. SignatureRob Bannister Thank you all. Now I know I'm not way off. I don't say it that way and won't (under that context that is), but it got me thinking when I first saw it. (And many thanks to the pointer about when it's in print) SignatureDJ |
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