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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009Syntax: The harder the task; the greater the glory.
I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title phrase, The harder the task, the greater the glory. Word flagged it as having a syntax problem. I realize that it has no (explicit) verb, but is it an error? Is this type of construction considered incorrect? I tried a few others. These were flagged: The more serious the problem, the more complicated the solution. The higher the mountain, the better the view. These were not: No pain, no gain. The bigger they come, the harder they fall. That last one does have a verb. In all 5 examples, replacing the comma with a semicolon made no difference. > I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title > phrase, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > In all 5 examples, replacing the comma with a semicolon made no > difference. They are all perfectly fine. It's not an error, and it is correct. Yendrick > > I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title > > phrase, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Agreed. Word's syntax and grammar checkers are as bad as its spelling checker. >> > I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title >> > phrase, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >Agreed. Word's syntax and grammar checkers are as bad as its spelling >checker. Awhile ago, I noticed a couple of other anomolies in Word's grammar checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I could send bugs reports. I was told that no one cared. ;-) >> Agreed. Word's syntax and grammar checkers are as bad as its >> spelling checker. > > Awhile ago, I noticed a couple of other anomolies in Word's grammar A while anomalies > checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I in > could send bugs reports. I was told that no one cared. ;-) bug  SignatureSkitt (AmE) > > checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I > > in In or on? For me and many others the predecessor of the news group was the bulletin board system; the bulletin board metaphor calls for posting something on, not in, the bulletin board. I normally say I post something to the news group, but might say I post on the news group. Is asking the same thing as posting? You can't say "ask to" the news group. I think I would say that I "ask on" rather than "ask in" the news group. When I am reading news I think of myself as being "on" the group, not "in" it, probably because of being "on" line and "on" the computer, as well as having been "on" the telephone. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >> > checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >not "in" it, probably because of being "on" line and "on" the >computer, as well as having been "on" the telephone. I feel more in than on a group, yet I write "I posted on AUE...". SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>>> checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I feel more in than on a group, yet I write "I posted on AUE...". It's "posted to" for me and I "ask of" the other members. I participate in newsgroups from a distance as they exist somewhere(s) a very long way away from me. I can see them but I cannot touch them so there is no "in" or "on", there is only "over there". >>>>> checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >from me. I can see them but I cannot touch them so there is no "in" or "on", >there is only "over there". I'd write "post to AUE" if I were writing an email or writing a post on another newsgroup, but not when posting "on AUE". SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>>>>> checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I'd write "post to AUE" if I were writing an email or writing a post > on another newsgroup, but not when posting "on AUE". My original comment was about *asking* <?> a Word group. You have to be there, or "in" the group, to do the asking. In other words, are you on or in a group? I'd say "in". SignatureSkitt (AmE) > My original comment was about *asking* <?> a Word group. You have to be > there, or "in" the group, to do the asking. In other words, are you on or > in a group? I'd say "in". Usenet does not have the concept of group membership. As far as I'm concerned, a newsgroup is a group of messages. You read something *in* the group, but you post it *to* the group -- it's "to" because it's a message and you send messages "to" their destination -- although "in" does not sound completely foreign, as "on" does. Note that the header line is Followup-To, not Followup-In or Followup-On. SignatureMark Brader | "Of course, if you only see one movie this year, msb@vex.net | you're in the wrong newsgroup." Toronto | --Chris Pierson, rec.arts.movies.past-films My text in this article is in the public domain. >> My original comment was about *asking* <?> a Word group. You have >> to be there, or "in" the group, to do the asking. In other words, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > although "in" does not sound completely foreign, as "on" does. Note > that the header line is Followup-To, not Followup-In or Followup-On. In other words, you are agreeing with me, right? You don't ask "to" the group. You ask "in" the group. SignatureSkitt (AmE) > >> My original comment was about *asking* <?> a Word group. You have > >> to be there, or "in" the group, to do the asking. In other words, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > In other words, you are agreeing with me, right? You don't ask "to" the > group. You ask "in" the group. When do you ask "of" the group? SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email >>>> My original comment was about *asking* <?> a Word group. You have >>>> to be there, or "in" the group, to do the asking. In other words, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > When do you ask "of" the group? You could do that, of course. Slightly different meaning, but yeah. The group will not respond as one, though. SignatureSkitt (AmE) >>>>>>> checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >there, or "in" the group, to do the asking. In other words, are you on or >in a group? I'd say "in". Me too. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >> > checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I >> >> in at >In or on? For me and many others the predecessor of the news group >was the bulletin board system; the bulletin board metaphor calls for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >not "in" it, probably because of being "on" line and "on" the >computer, as well as having been "on" the telephone. Signature"How dreary, to be...Somebody! How public, like a frog, to tell one's name, the live-long June, to an admiring bog!" <Emily Dickinson> >>> checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > not "in" it, probably because of being "on" line and "on" the > computer, as well as having been "on" the telephone. Certainly "on" a BB; but as a newsgroup is a group, I think I'm "in" it. (By extension, the same for my n.g. messages.) Oddly, though, I don't think I'd very often "ask a newsgroup" transitively: I'm not sure why, but perhaps it's because I don't know for certain who will be reading the question. (OT, in unAmE, one's "in" not "on" a team, too. But, like "on the weekend", that is infiltrating OurE.) SignatureMike. <snip> >(OT, in unAmE, one's "in" not "on" a team, too. But, like "on the >weekend", that is infiltrating OurE.) In my version of AmE, it is "over or during the weekend", never "on the weekend". SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland ><snip> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >In my version of AmE, it is "over or during the weekend", never "on >the weekend". In BrE, "on a team" doesn't sound totally wrong, although "in" is more usual. You would certainly be "on a/the board" (of directors) and "on a/the panel" (as in a group of experts answering questions put by an audience). As for "weekend", don't forget "at the weekend" - but not "on". SignatureIan >><snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >As for "weekend", don't forget "at the weekend" - but not "on". I am increasingly hearing "on the weekend" from Brits on British TV. I think I have also read it from Brits on forums. It is still a minority habit, though. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>><snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >It is still a minority habit, though. Maybe an extension of "on a lunch-break" (of which I totally disapprove, of course? Or maybe a corruption of "one weekend"? SignatureIan >>>><snip> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Maybe an extension of "on a lunch-break" (of which I totally disapprove, >of course? Or maybe a corruption of "one weekend"? I don't know. I'd be inclined to assume that is copied from American TV shows. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>><snip> >>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >It is still a minority habit, though. I predict that sooner or later, unless the population of America takes a dramatic hit, God forbid, AmE will rule the waves. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>>> I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title >>>> phrase, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I > could send bugs reports. I was told that no one cared. ;-) I've seen Word wrongly highlight "its" as incorrect. The solution - turn it off. Out of sight, out of mind. T. >> Awhile ago, I noticed a couple of other anomolies in Word's grammar >> checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I >> could send bugs reports. I was told that no one cared. ;-) > > I've seen Word wrongly highlight "its" as incorrect. > The solution - turn it off. Just Word, or the whole of Windows? SignatureDavid > >> Awhile ago, I noticed a couple of other anomolies in Word's grammar > >> checker. I asked on one of the Word groups if there is any place I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Just Word, or the whole of Windows? What the hell, why not the whole computer? Hit the road instead and get some good exercise. Not that I'll ever follow that advice. SignatureBob Lieblich Office-chair potato [snip] >Agreed. Word's syntax and grammar checkers are as bad as its spelling >checker. Not true. I have corrected flagged spelling errors. I have yet to make any sense of its grammar "advice". Sincerely, Gene Wirchenko Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation: I have preferences. You have biases. He/She has prejudices. > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Not true. I have corrected flagged spelling errors. I have yet > to make any sense of its grammar "advice". Once I have ticked "Ignore this rule" for most of its advice, I find the grammar checker useful for finding duplicated or missing spaces. I'm certain it spots something else I find useful, but I can't remember what it could be. SignatureRob Bannister >> I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title >> phrase, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >They are all perfectly fine. It's not an error, and it is correct. OK, thanks. > I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title > phrase, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > In all 5 examples, replacing the comma with a semicolon made no > difference. No problems with them or similar. The more the merrier. SignatureThis sig intentionally left blank >> I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title >> phrase, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >No problems with them or similar. Ok, thanks. >The more the merrier. Curiously, Word is happy with that one. Square Peg filted: >>> These were not: >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Curiously, Word is happy with that one. I suspect that Word has been fitted with a (small?) store of boilerplate phrases like these...it should also accept "the sooner the better"...your attempt of "the bigger they come, the harder they fall" might pass if you change "come" to "are"....r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" Square Peg filted: >I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title >phrase, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >In all 5 examples, replacing the comma with a semicolon made no >difference. What does it do with "the more the merrier"?...r Signature"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!" "You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!" > I was reading a document in Word 2007 when I came across the title > phrase, > > The harder the task, the greater the glory. > Word flagged it as having a syntax problem. I realize that it has no > (explicit) verb, but is it an error? Is this type of construction > considered incorrect? > I tried a few others. These were flagged: > The more serious the problem, the more complicated the solution. > The higher the mountain, the better the view. > These were not: > No pain, no gain. > The bigger they come, the harder they fall. > That last one does have a verb. The others have the verb "is", or some other form of "to be", understood. > In all 5 examples, replacing the comma with a semicolon made no > difference. A semicolon would make it wrong. "The harder the task" is a phrase (or clause: you could take it as having an understood "is" too) that modifies the rest of the sentence. It's an old form of words that may be best understood as an idiom these days, but that once clearly meant "By how much harder the task is, by so much is the glory greater." Actually, that's still what it means. |
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