 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / March 2009Sandwiches in a paper sack
Hello: At Google Books: 173 on "sandwiches in a paper bag" 27 on "sandwiches in a paper sack" Any difference in meaning? The 2nd seems a bit strange to me, I associate "sack" with something quite big (think stevedores carrying sacks on their backs). -- Thanks. Marius Hancu >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >associate "sack" with something quite big (think stevedores carrying >sacks on their backs). I think the use of "sack" in this sense is confined to certain parts of the US. The inhabitants of other places frequeently find it a bit strange.  SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" >>Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >of the US. The inhabitants of other places frequeently find it a bit >strange. I don't see how that claim can be made anymore. Everywhere I've lived I've been surrounded by people who grew up somewhere else. In the Chicago-area, I knew as many people who were not from Illinois as I did native-born Illinoisians. (?) In Florida, I know very few native-Floridians over the age of 25. You can't really confine terms if the people aren't confined. We are so mobile now in the US that "local inhabitant" means "someone who has moved here". SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>I think the use of "sack" in this sense is confined to certain parts >>of the US. The inhabitants of other places frequeently find it a bit [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > are so mobile now in the US that "local inhabitant" means "someone > who has moved here". Yeah, but there are a couple of forces working in the other direction, which tend to keep regionalisms regional. First off, there's a tendency for a newcomer's speech patterns to change to match those of the community they move into. I came to California calling Coke and 7-up "pop", but within a decade (probably less), I stopped calling it that when I'm here. (When I go back to visit my parents, it's "pop" again.) Second, but related, regional foreignisms (even from their parents) are perceived as idiosyncracies by kids and so tend not to get passed on to become standard in the next generations. (Fads, of course, work the other way.) And third, I guess, there's the problem that while in most places there are a lot (often a majority) of people who moved there, they moved from lots of linguistic places and tend not to "clump" with people from their region. So you don't get subpockets of people who use the terms from a particular region. Which means that each such speaker feels the pressure to switch terminology. Indeed, it's probably this that's responsible for the migration of a recognizable nationwide "Black English". Unlike most groups, when they migrated from the South (where many of the characteristics of the dialect weren't racially marked), they did tend to wind up clumped in communities, with more in-group than out-group interaction. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |This isn't good. I've seen good, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |and it didn't look anything like Palo Alto, CA 94304 |this. | MST3K kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > of the US. The inhabitants of other places frequeently find it a bit > strange. In the U S, even people who carry their lunch to work in a briefcase are called "brown baggers." >>Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >of the US. The inhabitants of other places frequeently find it a bit >strange. Whereas "bag lunch" is a popular phrase, I've never heard of a "sack lunch". SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >associate "sack" with something quite big (think stevedores carrying >sacks on their backs). The bag vs sack difference has been covered many times in this group. To some, bags are one thing and sacks are another. To many, though, the terms are interchangeable. I'm in the group that feels that either "paper bag" *or* "paper sack" means the same thing. The choice is based on what your mother called it when she first sent you off with a sandwich. My mother used small paper sacks for sandwiches, but I'm perfectly comfortable with the "bag" usage. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > -- > Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida I usually dress in baggy sackcloth, but I would be perfectly comfortable in sacky bagcloth. -- Aloha ~~~ Ozzie Maland ~~~ San Diego [...] >> it when she first sent you off with a sandwich. My mother used small >> paper sacks for sandwiches, but I'm perfectly comfortable with the >> "bag" usage. > > I usually dress in baggy sackcloth, but I would be perfectly > comfortable in sacky bagcloth. But if there's a saggy backcloth, one might consider firing the stage manager. SignatureMike. > > Hello: > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > To some, bags are one thing and sacks are another. To many, though, > the terms are interchangeable. Or interchangeable to a point. Potatoes never came in "gunny bags" for me. Then there are the old-timey cloth flour sacks that I'd read about in stories. People used to make clothing and household products from them. > I'm in the group that feels that either "paper bag" or "paper sack" > means the same thing. I would find "sack lunch" less unusual than "sandwiches in a paper sack", for some reason. I suppose the first is a set phrase I've heard enough. Brian SignatureDay 47 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project >>Hello: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > To some, bags are one thing and sacks are another. To many, though, > the terms are interchangeable. [snip] At the airport, do you check your bag or sack? If you were in the military, did you hit the sack or bag? Did you have a duffle bag or sack, carry a knapsack or a knapbag? Then there's your talkative friend, the windbag or windsack? What about the wife, sometimes referred to as the old bag or old sack? >>>Hello: >>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >At the airport, do you check your bag or sack? I check my luggage. The word "bag", in this case, is different usage. >If you were in the military, did you hit the sack or bag? Did you have a >duffle bag or sack, carry a knapsack or a knapbag? Again, different usage. >Then there's your talkative friend, the windbag or windsack? I don't wear windsocks on my feet, either. >What about the wife, sometimes referred to as the old bag or old sack? I'd have to be bagged to use either. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>Hello: >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > I'd have to be bagged to use either. My response was to the phrase: "To many, though, the terms are interchangeable." You must travel first class. I've alway checked my bag/s whether I rode a Greyhound or Trialways, caught a train, or flew military air or coach on CIVAir. To my recollection, when PCS, when applicable, orders referred to shipment of "household goods and baggage." > At the airport, do you check your bag or sack? I check my bag before I leave the house. Far too late to do it when you get to the airport. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu >> At the airport, do you check your bag or sack? > > I check my bag before I leave the house. Far too late to do it when you > get to the airport. In foreign countries it's sometimes important to check the seal on your baggage at the airport. If it's broken, persons unknown checked it for you. In our last episode, <gq5dtk$bmc$1@aioe.org>, the lovely and talented Marius Hancu broadcast on alt.usage.english: > Hello: > At Google Books: > 173 on "sandwiches in a paper bag" > 27 on "sandwiches in a paper sack" > Any difference in meaning? The 2nd seems a bit strange to me, I > associate "sack" with something quite big (think stevedores carrying > sacks on their backs). This is a well-known regional difference in the US. There probably is a map with the isogloss somewhere on the web. In general, "sack" is more common in the South. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com 61 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term. Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't. Lars Eighner filted: >In our last episode, ><gq5dtk$bmc$1@aioe.org>, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >with the isogloss somewhere on the web. In general, "sack" is more common >in the South. I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a "bag lunch"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? Lars Eighner: >> This is a well-known regional difference in the US. There probably is a map >> with the isogloss somewhere on the web. In general, "sack" is more common >> in the South. R.H. Draney: > I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a "bag lunch". (Raises hand.) Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was paper. SignatureMark Brader "Those who do not know USENET Toronto are doomed to repeat each other." msb@vex.net -- Erik Fair (after George Santayana) > Lars Eighner: > >> This is a well-known regional difference in the US. There [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > (Raises hand.) Yes, although as I mentioned elsewhere, "sack lunch" sounds reasonably familiar to me. > Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was > paper. Mine still travel in them. I get the freezer bags at the grocery store. Those are heavy-weight #8 paper bags. I have some rectangular containers that fit neatly in the bottom. Brian SignatureDay 47 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project > Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was paper. "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make our employees work in what is supposed to be their lunch break". Not that attendence is compulsory, of course. But when the layoffs come, we'll know who's committed and who is just drifting along. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu >> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >> paper. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Not that attendence is compulsory, of course. But when the layoffs > come, we'll know who's committed and who is just drifting along. Or who has the savvy to leave a lunch-bag on his desk to go with the jacket hung on the chair. See also, "Never walk down the corridor without a piece of paper in your hand." SignatureMike. >>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >>> paper. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > jacket hung on the chair. See also, "Never walk down the corridor > without a piece of paper in your hand." Clipboard, innit. Doesn't work these days though. SignatureDavid >>>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >>>> paper. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Clipboard, innit. Doesn't work these days though. In the days when I used to frequent free festivals, I discovered that the combination of a fluorescent jacket and a clipboard was an infallible way of getting through a police line - it was as good as being invisible. SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" >>>>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >>>>> paper. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Clipboard, innit. Doesn't work these days though. Clipboard for lower ranks. Doesn't work any more, you say? Bang goes another fine old traditional folk-custom. > In the days when I used to frequent free festivals, I discovered that > the combination of a fluorescent jacket and a clipboard was an > infallible way of getting through a police line - it was as good as > being invisible. Like the Dome (no, I will /not/ call it "the O2") jewel thieves who hoped they'd made themselves invisible by wearing high-vis jackets, but were unlucky enough to be trapped by policemen who'd made themselves invisible by wearing high-vis jackets. SignatureMike. >Like the Dome (no, I will /not/ call it "the O2") That's OK. It *was* the Millennium Dome at that time. > jewel thieves who >hoped they'd made themselves invisible by wearing high-vis jackets, but >were unlucky enough to be trapped by policemen who'd made themselves >invisible by wearing high-vis jackets. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >>>>>> paper. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > were unlucky enough to be trapped by policemen who'd made themselves > invisible by wearing high-vis jackets. The robbers were rendered visible by having been grassed up in advance, so the fuzz were on the lookout for blokes in high-vis jackets. I once accidentally got free entry to the site of Expo 67 in Montreal (some years later than 67) by walking through the press entrance speaking in an English accent and brandishing an SLR. SignatureDavid [...] > I once accidentally got free entry to the site of Expo 67 in Montreal > (some years later than 67) by walking through the press entrance > speaking in an English accent and brandishing an SLR. Self-loading rifle? SignatureLes (BrE) > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Self-loading rifle? You mean like a Winchester 67? SignatureDavid >I once accidentally got free entry to the site of Expo 67 in Montreal >(some years later than 67) by walking through the press entrance >speaking in an English accent and brandishing an SLR. The camera club that I belong to issues a membership card that fits in a plastic holder and is attached to a lanyard. We're supposed to wear them at meetings as a way for other members to know our names. Sometimes, when photographing an event of some sort, I'll wear it. I've found that guards tend to let me past barriers when I do. Not that they are responding to a camera club member, but that they see a "badge" and think it's something official. No one actually reads the badge. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >>> paper. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >jacket hung on the chair. See also, "Never walk down the corridor >without a piece of paper in your hand." Once upon a time my colleagues and I used to bring in what in those days was called "sandwiches"*, and take it in turns to bring a bottle of wine. I bet that would be frowned on today. * Singular verb is deliberate. It meant "whatever you bring to eat for lunch". Actual sandwiches were not necessary to qualify. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ >>>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >>>> paper. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > * Singular verb is deliberate. It meant "whatever you bring to eat > for lunch". Actual sandwiches were not necessary to qualify. It's still "sandwiches" up here. SignatureDavid >>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >>> paper. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >jacket hung on the chair. See also, "Never walk down the corridor >without a piece of paper in your hand." When I worked in a lab, there was a coworker who wore his lab coat when he left for the day. People would assume he was on his way somewhere, and with the added benefit of looking busy if he came in late the next day. Signaturecharles >> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was paper. > > "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make > our employees work in what is supposed to be their lunch break". Not > that attendence is compulsory, of course. But when the layoffs come, > we'll know who's committed and who is just drifting along. Really? BrE business speak, perhaps, but it hasn't reached my company. Mind, we have a flexible attitude to clock hours - we work when we need to and we go shopping when we feel like it. And, with our mobile working culture, many of us are not in a position where anybody else can see what we're up to. If I go to my office, my manager is 200 miles away, and I'm always available on the phone, IM or email. SignatureDavid >> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was paper. > > "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make > our employees work in what is supposed to be their lunch break". Not > that attendence is compulsory, of course. But when the layoffs come, > we'll know who's committed and who is just drifting along. When I was in graduate school, we had "brown bags" every Thursday lunchtime, when various speakers would talk about their latest research. That was in the Archaeology department. The Physical Anthropology department had a similar series of talks, at 4pm, whixh they called "Brown Beers". Fran >> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was paper. > >"Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make >our employees work in what is supposed to be their lunch break". Not >that attendence is compulsory, of course. But when the layoffs come, >we'll know who's committed and who is just drifting along. At lunchtime, when I worked in the Washington, D.C. area, some of the government employees "brown bagged it" instead of going out. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was paper. > >"Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make >our employees work in what is supposed to be their lunch break". Not >that attendence is compulsory, of course. But when the layoffs come, >we'll know who's committed and who is just drifting along. That would be a "working lunch" for me. A brown bag lunch is different from eating at the cafeteria, or out of the office. Signaturecharles Nick Atty: >> "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make >> our employees work in what is supposed to be their lunch break". Not >> that attendence is compulsory, of course. But ... Charles Bishop: > That would be a "working lunch" for me. A brown bag lunch is different > from eating at the cafeteria, or out of the office. I'm with Charles on this. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "Ah. I am now confused at a much more msb@vex.net | advanced level, thank you." --Mike Lyle >Nick Atty: >>> "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >I'm with Charles on this. I'm between the two of you. A working lunch is just working while having lunch. Whether it's food the employee brings in or food the employer provides, it's a working lunch if the normal form of work continues through the meal. A brown bag lunch is lunch the employee brings with him/her to work. It's a brown bag lunch if its eaten at the employee's desk, in the cafeteria, or on a park bench outside the building. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>Nick Atty: >>>> "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the employee's desk, in the cafeteria, or on a park bench outside the > building. I'd say that in BrE a working lunch suggests the employer is providing the food (whether going out to somewhere or for sandwiches[*] provided to the meeting). A "brown-bag lunch" is an imported/invented term meaning "you take your packed lunch and listen to us telling you something we thing important while you eat it". [*] - sandwiches meaning the same as when you take sandwiches. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu > I'd say that in BrE a working lunch suggests the employer is providing > the food (whether going out to somewhere or for sandwiches[*] provided > to the meeting). A "brown-bag lunch" is an imported/invented term > meaning "you take your packed lunch and listen to us telling you > something we thing important while you eat it". Ah. I said something similar elsethread. So it's not confined to the UK. Brian SignatureDay 54 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project Charles Bishop: >>> That would be a "working lunch" for me. A brown bag lunch is different >>> from eating at the cafeteria, or out of the office. Mark Brader: >> I'm with Charles on this. Tony Cooper: > I'm between the two of you. ... A brown bag lunch is lunch the employee > brings with him/her to work. It's a brown bag lunch if its eaten at > the employee's desk, in the cafeteria, or on a park bench outside the > building. Okay, fair enough. I was assuming that "out of the office" meant a restaurant and that neither this nor the cafeteria allowed outside food to be eaten. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "C takes the point of view that the programmer msb@vex.net | is always right" -- Michael DeCorte >>Nick Atty: >>>> "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >the employee's desk, in the cafeteria, or on a park bench outside the >building. Sorry. I was referring to ' "a way to make our employees work in what is supposed to be their lunch break" ' as a "working lunch" and not tied just to "brown bag lunch" but I can see how I didn't separate it enough. Signaturecharles, English, she is hard, no?, bishop >>>Nick Atty: >>>>> "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way to make [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > supposed to be their lunch break" ' as a "working lunch" and not tied just > to "brown bag lunch" but I can see how I didn't separate it enough. I'm slightly happier to work though my lunch-break when I'm not expected to provide the food as well. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu >>>> Nick Atty: >>>>>> "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I'm slightly happier to work though my lunch-break when I'm not > expected to provide the food as well. "I'm brown-bagging today" was a usual phrase used to decline an invitation to leave the building for lunch, nearly everywhere I have worked. The bag may have not been brown paper, and the contents not sandwiches, and there was never any predominant expectation as to whether work, recreation, or just munching was the anticipated activity. On the few occasions when a "working lunch" with attendance encouraged was mentioned, it was usually a session when an invited guest wanted to share a view and hear those of the workers. A few of them went away with an earful that may have upset their digestive process, if not equilibrium. I was in a "Flex-time" situation for quite a few years. The earliest permissible hours of work, and the latest, were specified, and a minimum half-hour unpaid lunch period was required. Other time restraints on lunch were not mentioned. Fifteen-minute paid breaks were allowed, but they had to be "mid-morning" and "mid-afternoon". I consistently began work at the earliest time allowed, and began lunch after eight hours (or ten, when short work-weeks were convenient). The manager of our branch saw and appreciated the advantages, and adopted a similar basic pattern. SignatureFrank ess > > Nick Atty: > >>> "Brown-bag lunch" has made it into BrE business speak for "a way [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the employee's desk, in the cafeteria, or on a park bench outside the > building. At least at my company, there's a specific event called a "brown-bag". In that, there is a seminar planned that is supposed to be attended during lunch (which is unpaid), and so the employee brings a lunch to the discussion. brian SignatureDay 54 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project >>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was paper. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >That would be a "working lunch" for me. A brown bag lunch is different >from eating at the cafeteria, or out of the office. Not to me. A "working lunch" is when several people, perhaps from disparate companies or they can all work for the same employer, gather at a restaurant to discuss work while eating. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was paper. >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >disparate companies or they can all work for the same employer, gather >at a restaurant to discuss work while eating. When two or more employees of the same firm, or associated firms, have lunch together, work is usually discussed. Some aspect of the job, at least. That doesn't make it a working lunch. It's not a working lunch if work topics just happen to be discussed. For it to be a working lunch, there has to be a plan, an agenda, or a decision to work through lunch on some job-related issue. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >>>>> paper. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > For it to be a working lunch, there has to be a plan, an agenda, or a > decision to work through lunch on some job-related issue. And, for tax purposes, someone is going to have to provide evidence that work was actually done, between lap dances, etc. Brown-bag lunches in my last place of employment were well-attended, at least by those who wished to curry favor with the ones setting up the meetings. "If you make the organizers look good and enterprising, they will look favorably upon your application to work in their new subdivision." >>>>>> Also "brown-bag lunch", a holdover from the days when the bag was >>>>>> paper. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >And, for tax purposes, someone is going to have to provide evidence that >work was actually done, between lap dances, etc. I've submitted expenses for literally hundreds of business meals. All that's required is a statement of who attended and what was discussed. "D. Jones, MegaDeeSign. Discussed trade show exhibits" is sufficient "evidence". The IRS has never challenged. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > Lars Eighner filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a "bag lunch"....r Ditto Mark's comment. > Lars Eighner filted: >> Marius Hancu broadcast: >>> At Google Books: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a "bag lunch"....r How about a lunch bag? SignatureSkitt (AmE) R H Draney skrev: > I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a "bag lunch"....r How about a brown bag lunch? Charlie Brown used eat those at school, and when he was lonely the peanut butter stuck to the roof of his mouth. SignatureJens Brix Christiansen > R H Draney skrev: > >> I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a "bag lunch"....r > > How about a brown bag lunch? Charlie Brown used eat those at school, and > when he was lonely the peanut butter stuck to the roof of his mouth. That's the first place I met the term - IIRC, Peppermint Patty said she was "brown bagging it". Meant nothing to a BrE teenager. SignatureDavid >Lars Eighner filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a "bag lunch"....r How odd, although Lars may have explained it, for I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a "sack lunch". Apparently they are regionalisms. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland > >Lars Eighner filted: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >>with the isogloss somewhere on the web. In general, "sack" is more common > >>in the South. I wonder how the isogloss compares for the ones for shopping "cart" versus "basket" (with wheels) and "put away" versus "put up". > >I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a "bag lunch"....r > > How odd, although Lars may have explained it, for I don't think I've > ever heard anyone speak of a "sack lunch". Apparently they are > regionalisms. Yep. After never (or hardly ever?) hearing it in Ohio and New Jersey, I encountered it in downstate Illinois. -- Jerry Friedman >> >Lars Eighner filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >Yep. After never (or hardly ever?) hearing it in Ohio and New Jersey, >I encountered it in downstate Illinois. I have only a passing knowledge of Chicago, if it is anywhere near downstate Illinois, so that would explain it. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland > In our last episode, > <gq5dtk$bmc$1@aioe.org>, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > with the isogloss somewhere on the web. In general, "sack" is more common > in the South. Unless it's a poke. Raymond O'Hara filted: >>> 173 on "sandwiches in a paper bag" >>> 27 on "sandwiches in a paper sack" [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Unless it's a poke. Note that one may have a poke *in* the eye, or bags (usu. plural) *under* the eyes...I'm not familiar with any corresponding expression with "sack"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >Raymond O'Hara filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Note that one may have a poke *in* the eye, or bags (usu. plural) *under* the >eyes...I'm not familiar with any corresponding expression with "sack"....r When you start rubbing your eyes, it's time to hit the sack. SignatureJames >Raymond O'Hara filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Note that one may have a poke *in* the eye, or bags (usu. plural) *under* the >eyes...I'm not familiar with any corresponding expression with "sack"....r Don't buy a pig in a poke or, in the state of Maine, "a pig in a bag". AFAIK, pigs don't come in sacks, but someone will undoubtedly prove me wrong. SignatureRegards, Chuck Riggs Near Dublin, Ireland >>Note that one may have a poke *in* the eye, or bags (usu. plural) >>*under* the eyes...I'm not familiar with any corresponding [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > bag". AFAIK, pigs don't come in sacks, but someone will undoubtedly > prove me wrong. If someone tries to get you to "buy a pig in a poke", it's quite likely that they are being careful not to "let the cat out of the bag". Both expressions come from the same fraud. The mark would be offered a "pig" (which then was still limited to a piglet) at a good price on the condition that he buy it without opening the bag it was contained in. (I believe that he was allowed to judge the weight and tell that it was alive enough to squirm around.) Once the money was exchnged, the seller would disappear and the buyer would find himself in possession of a sack containing not a piglet but a cat. Surprisingly, this is a *very* old expression (and, therefore, an old scam). The OED cites it back to ca. 1250: Wan man 3evit þe a pig, opin þe powch "When someone gives you a pig, open the pouch". Although, interestingly, they first cite that under a phrase "When the pig is offered, hold open the poke", which they define as "one must seize one's opportunities", although the quotes all seem to support the other reading as well. The "something bought or accepted without prior inspection" sense is cited to 1555. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |It does me no injury for my neighbor 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |to say there are twenty gods, or no Palo Alto, CA 94304 |God. | Thomas Jefferson kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ [...] >> Don't buy a pig in a poke or, in the state of Maine, "a pig in a >> bag". AFAIK, pigs don't come in sacks, but someone will undoubtedly [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > price on the condition that he buy it without opening the bag it was > contained in. [...] It's quite normal to bring small weaners home in a hessian sack: I've done it myself, and, though I was sceptical to start with, found that a pair of them thus wrapped lay very quiet in the back of the station wagon. But of course I'd seen them running about before buying them. SignatureMike. >> In our last episode, >> <gq5dtk$bmc$1@aioe.org>, [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Unless it's a poke. You wouldn't know a poke if you had a snipe in it. Rambler III filted: >>> This is a well-known regional difference in the US. There probably is a >>> map [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >You wouldn't know a poke if you had a snipe in it. Implied chiasmus noted....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Rambler III filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Implied chiasmus noted....r I remember Gus liked a poke. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYzZPiqjqww SignatureFrank ess > Rambler III filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Implied chiasmus noted....r I looked-up chiasmus in M-WCD11th and still don't know what it means. O'Hara should know what a "poke" is. The Kennedys has been "poking" Massachusetts for a century. In our last episode, <%I2yl.78870$4m1.72571@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, the lovely and talented Rambler III broadcast on alt.usage.english: > I looked-up chiasmus in M-WCD11th and still don't know what it means. Parallelism (the literary, not the grammatic kind): We slept through the day, | | | | | | | | | | and we worked by night Chiasmus: We slept through the day \ / \ / \ / / \ / \ / \ and by night we worked. (forming the shape of the Greek letter chi. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com 62 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term. Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't. >>> In our last episode, >>> <gq5dtk$bmc$1@aioe.org>, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >You wouldn't know a poke if you had a snipe in it. You swine. Signaturecharles >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >associate "sack" with something quite big (think stevedores carrying >sacks on their backs). Yes, and sacks are usually made of woven material rather than paper, thoguh there can be some overlap. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.