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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
On Apr 29, 7:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:09:25 +0200, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>
> >>This "indisposeth" must be tongue-in-cheek-historical, isn't it?
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> 1735 BERKELEY Def. Free-think. in Math. §7 Wks. 1871 III. 305 Not
> that I imagine geometry disposeth men to infidelity.
So, when would you say the -eth form disappeared? By 1800?
Also, it's a bit ironical/tongue-in-cheek in Banville, isn't it?
Thank you both.
Marius Hancu
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 30 Apr 2009 00:17 GMT
>On Apr 29, 7:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>So, when would you say the -eth form disappeared? By 1800?
I'll leave someone else to answer that. I haven't studied the history of
English.
>Also, it's a bit ironical/tongue-in-cheek in Banville, isn't it?
It could well be. The character has chosen to use an archaic form for
effect.
>Thank you both.
>Marius Hancu

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Evan Kirshenbaum - 30 Apr 2009 03:56 GMT
> So, when would you say the -eth form disappeared? By 1800?
According to Baugh and Cable, the shift appears to have been in the
late sixteenth and early seventeenth century:
The regular ending of the third person singular in the whole south
and southeastern part of England--that is, the district most
influential in the formation of the standard speech--was -_eth_
all through the Middle English period. It is universal in
Chaucer: _telleth_, _giveth_, _saith_, _doth_, etc. In the
fifteenth century, forms with -_s_ occasionally appear. These are
difficult to account for, since it is not easy to see how the
Northern dialect, where they were normal, could have exerted so
important an influence upon the language of London and the south.
But in the course of the sixteenth century their number increases,
especially in the writings which seem to reflect colloquial
usage. By the end of this century forms like _tells_, _gives_,
says_ predominate, though in some words, such as _doth_ and
_hath_, the older usage may have been the commoner. One was free
to use either. In the famous plea for mercy in the _Merchant of
Venice_ Portia says:
The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It dropp_eth_ as a gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath: it is twice bless'd;
It bless_eth_ him that giv_es_ and him that tak_es_
It is worth noting, however, that in the trial scene as a whole,
forms in -_s_ outnumber those in -_eth_ two to one. Certainly,
during the first half of the next century -_s_ had ecome universal
in the spoken language. This is beyond doubt, even though -_eth_
continued to be quite commonly written. A writer toward the
middle of the century observes that "howsoever wee use to Write
thus, _leadeth_ it, _maketh_ it, _noteth_ it, _raketh_ it, per-
_fumeth_ is, &c. Yet in our ordinary speech (which is best to bee
understood) wee say, _leads_ it, _makes_ it, _notes_ it, _rakes_
it, per-_fumes_ it." It is altogether probable that during
Shakespeare's lifetime -_s_ became the usual ending for this part
of the verb in the spoken language.
Albert Baugh and Thomas Cable, _A History of
the English Language_, 3e, 1978, p. 246

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James Hogg - 30 Apr 2009 07:13 GMT
>On Apr 29, 7:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
>Also, it's a bit ironical/tongue-in-cheek in Banville, isn't it?
No, he's just quoting exactly. Why should he modermise it?

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James
> At which date the -eth form would have been normal.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 1735 BERKELEY Def. Free-think. in Math. §7 Wks. 1871 III. 305
> Not that I imagine geometry disposeth men to infidelity.
If I recall my History of English class correctly, they were still
used in the spelling, but they had pretty much disappeared from
pronunciation.

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