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The long habit of living indisposeth me for dying

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Marius Hancu - 29 Apr 2009 07:57 GMT
Hello:

This "indisposeth" must be tongue-in-cheek-historical, isn't it?

-----
[Thinks about death. He has around the house a large medical treatise,
by Doctor Browne, which seems quite old.]

And yet people do go, vanish. That is the greater mystery; the greatest.
I too could go, oh, yes, at a moment's notice I could go and be as
though I had not been, except that the long habit of living indisposeth
me for dying, as Doctor Browne has it.

The Sea, John Banville, p. 105
-----

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Thanks.
Marius Hancu

James Hogg - 29 Apr 2009 12:09 GMT
>Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>though I had not been, except that the long habit of living indisposeth
>me for dying, as Doctor Browne has it.

It's a direct quotation from:
Sir Thomas Browne, Hydriotaphia, 1658, chapter 5:
"But the long habit of living indisposeth us for dying"
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/hydrionoframes/hydrio5.html

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James

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 29 Apr 2009 12:28 GMT
>>Hello:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>"But the long habit of living indisposeth us for dying"
>http://penelope.uchicago.edu/hydrionoframes/hydrio5.html

At which date the -eth form would have been normal.

Later quotes from the OED:

   1732 ARBUTHNOT Rules of Diet 291 Such a state disposeth the Humours
   of the Body to Heat.

   1735 BERKELEY Def. Free-think. in Math. §7 Wks. 1871 III. 305 Not
   that I imagine geometry disposeth men to infidelity.

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 29 Apr 2009 12:35 GMT
On Apr 29, 7:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:09:25 +0200, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>

> >>This "indisposeth" must be tongue-in-cheek-historical, isn't it?
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>     1735 BERKELEY Def. Free-think. in Math. §7 Wks. 1871 III. 305 Not
>     that I imagine geometry disposeth men to infidelity.

So, when would you say the -eth form  disappeared? By 1800?

Also, it's a bit ironical/tongue-in-cheek in Banville, isn't it?

Thank you both.
Marius Hancu
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 30 Apr 2009 00:17 GMT
>On Apr 29, 7:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>So, when would you say the -eth form  disappeared? By 1800?

I'll leave someone else to answer that. I haven't studied the history of
English.

>Also, it's a bit ironical/tongue-in-cheek in Banville, isn't it?

It could well be. The character has chosen to use an archaic form for
effect.

>Thank you both.
>Marius Hancu

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Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Evan Kirshenbaum - 30 Apr 2009 03:56 GMT
> So, when would you say the -eth form  disappeared? By 1800?

According to Baugh and Cable, the shift appears to have been in the
late sixteenth and early seventeenth century:

   The regular ending of the third person singular in the whole south
   and southeastern part of England--that is, the district most
   influential in the formation of the standard speech--was -_eth_
   all through the Middle English period.  It is universal in
   Chaucer: _telleth_, _giveth_, _saith_, _doth_, etc.  In the
   fifteenth century, forms with -_s_ occasionally appear.  These are
   difficult to account for, since it is not easy to see how the
   Northern dialect, where they were normal, could have exerted so
   important an influence upon the language of London and the south.
   But in the course of the sixteenth century their number increases,
   especially in the writings which seem to reflect colloquial
   usage.  By the end of this century forms like _tells_, _gives_,
   says_ predominate, though in some words, such as _doth_ and
   _hath_, the older usage may have been the commoner.  One was free
   to use either.  In the famous plea for mercy in the _Merchant of
   Venice_ Portia says:

      The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
      It dropp_eth_ as a gentle rain from heaven
      Upon the place beneath: it is twice bless'd;
      It bless_eth_ him that giv_es_ and him that tak_es_

   It is worth noting, however, that in the trial scene as a whole,
   forms in -_s_ outnumber those in -_eth_ two to one.  Certainly,
   during the first half of the next century -_s_ had ecome universal
   in the spoken language.  This is beyond doubt, even though -_eth_
   continued to be quite commonly written.  A writer toward the
   middle of the century observes that "howsoever wee use to Write
   thus, _leadeth_ it, _maketh_ it, _noteth_ it, _raketh_ it, per-
   _fumeth_ is, &c. Yet  in our ordinary speech (which is best to bee
   understood) wee say, _leads_ it, _makes_ it, _notes_ it, _rakes_
   it, per-_fumes_ it."  It is altogether probable that during
   Shakespeare's lifetime -_s_ became the usual ending for this part
   of the verb in the spoken language.

                       Albert Baugh and Thomas Cable, _A History of
                       the English Language_, 3e, 1978, p. 246

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James Hogg - 30 Apr 2009 07:13 GMT
>On Apr 29, 7:28 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>
>Also, it's a bit ironical/tongue-in-cheek in Banville, isn't it?

No, he's just quoting exactly. Why should he modermise it?

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James

Evan Kirshenbaum - 29 Apr 2009 15:30 GMT
> At which date the -eth form would have been normal.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>     1735 BERKELEY Def. Free-think. in Math. §7 Wks. 1871 III. 305
>     Not that I imagine geometry disposeth men to infidelity.

If I recall my History of English class correctly, they were still
used in the spelling, but they had pretty much disappeared from
pronunciation.

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Evan Kirshenbaum                       +------------------------------------
   HP Laboratories                    |He seems to be perceptive and
   1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141   |effective because he states the
   Palo Alto, CA  94304               |obvious to people that don't seem
                                      |to see the obvious.
   kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com             |
   (650)857-7572                      |          Tony Cooper

   http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

Mike Lyle - 29 Apr 2009 22:43 GMT
>> Hello:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> "But the long habit of living indisposeth us for dying"
> http://penelope.uchicago.edu/hydrionoframes/hydrio5.html

And, as I think I've said before, dear old Browne is a must for any
Aueista with antiquarian tastes. The /Vulgar Errors/ might well be my
desert-island book.

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Mike.

 
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