 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsEnglish UsageBritish EnglishESL Teaching Learnglish.com Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map |
Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009BBC: swine flu virus dropped from plane?
The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the outbreak of swine flu. This implies that the virus was dropped from a plane, which several conspiracy theorists have suggested. Is the BBC really on to something here, or is it just another case of journalists not understanding the meanings of words like "ground zero" and "epicentre"?  SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the > outbreak of swine flu. > This implies that the virus was dropped from a plane, which several > conspiracy theorists have suggested. > Is the BBC really on to something here, or is it just another case of > journalists not understanding the meanings of words like "ground zero" and > "epicentre"? "Ground zero" is now bog standard for this sort of thing in the US. "Epicenter" would just cause confusion with the recent Mexican earthquake. The Beeb is infected. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com 98 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term. Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't. > > The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the > > outbreak of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "Epicenter" would just cause confusion with the recent Mexican earthquake. > The Beeb is infected. I see your point, but when a technical term with a specific narrowly defined meaning acquires a metaphorical status and meaning I'm not sure it's an infection. There must be hundreds, if not thousands of such cases. "Decimated" comes to mind. I know what it means - but I also know what it's come to mean. And aren't there cases where the "correct" meaning of a word or an expression was originally a perversion or a corruption of an earlier meaning? SignatureWatch out for the random hedgehogs >> > The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the >> > outbreak of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> "Epicenter" would just cause confusion with the recent Mexican earthquake. >> The Beeb is infected. > I see your point, but when a technical term with a specific narrowly > defined meaning acquires a metaphorical status and meaning I'm not sure > it's an infection. > There must be hundreds, if not thousands of such cases. "Decimated" > comes to mind. I know what it means - but I also know what it's come to > mean. > And aren't there cases where the "correct" meaning of a word or an > expression was originally a perversion or a corruption of an earlier > meaning? Well there is 'fulsome' which had gone full cycle. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com 99 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term. Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't. > And aren't there cases where the "correct" meaning of a word or an > expression was originally a perversion or a corruption of an earlier > meaning? You mean like "nice", originally an insult? Or "terrible" and "awful", originally compliments? "Cute"? (Originally meant "clever"). "Smart", on the other hand, didn't get its "clever" sense until the seventeenth century. It originally meant "causing pain; stinging". "Pretty", on the other hand, did start out as "cunning", and didn't get an "attractive" sense until the fifteenth century. "Handsome" was "easy to handle or manipulate". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |I believe there are more instances 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |of the abridgment of the freedom of Palo Alto, CA 94304 |the people by gradual and silent |encroachments of those in power kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |than by violent and sudden (650)857-7572 |usurpations. | James Madison http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ M. Cope: > There must be hundreds, if not thousands of such cases. "Decimated" > comes to mind. I know what it means - but... > mean. You mean you know what it used to mean. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "In cyberspace, the lunatics not only run the asylum, msb@vex.net | but they helped build it..." --Richard Kadrey >> The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the >> outbreak of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >"Epicenter" would just cause confusion with the recent Mexican earthquake. >The Beeb is infected. The problem with using such terms metaphorically is where the literal meaning has not died out. My dictionary (Collins) gives only one meaning for "ground zero" -- the point on the earth'sd surface closest to a nuclear explosion that takes place in the air or beneath the surface (the latter meaning overlaps with "epicentre"). It could be extended metaphorically to biological as well as nuclear weapons (ie WMD), and in a case like this, where conspiracy theorists have been saying that the current outbreak of swine flu has been the result of the use of a biological weapon, confusion can result. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the > outbreak of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > of journalists not understanding the meanings of words like "ground > zero" and "epicentre"? Is there a non-metaphorical term you would prefer? I can't think of one. For "The place from which the damage started spreading", it seems like a pretty good metaphorical use. And it's been used for a while, apparently starting with the AIDS epidemic in the '80s: Andrew Moss showed his census tract charts that identified Castro Street as ground zero of the local epidemic. Randy Shilts, _And the Band Played On_, 1987 It was also the title of a 1988 book on AIDS. It appears to have been in use earlier: According to this model, the present telomeric segment of the MHC was most likely the "ground zero" of MHC conception, where HLA-F most probably served as the proto-MHC-I locus, which in turn gave birth to the MICE and HLA-G genes upon duplication. Seiamak Bahram, "MIC Genes and Molecules", in Dixon, _Advances in Immunology_, [1966] So it may well have been current epidemiological jargon for several decades, and I suspect that the BBC is just reporting what their hearing from the people working on the disease. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The great thing about Microsoft 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |dominating the world is that Palo Alto, CA 94304 |there's no shortage of support |opportunities. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Sam Alvis (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ [human rights jettisoned] > > The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the > > outbreak of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > of journalists not understanding the meanings of words like "ground > > zero" and "epicentre"? Last night the Beeb reported that Mexico was the 'epicentre of the outbreak'. 'Ground zero' is an improvement on that, I reckon. > Is there a non-metaphorical term you would prefer? I can't think of > one. Focus. (Please.) From the OED: '5. a. The centre of activity, or area of greatest energy, of a storm, volcanic eruption, etc. 1796' > For "The place from which the damage started spreading", it > seems like a pretty good metaphorical use. Though perhaps not as apt as a metaphorical use of the OED's Sense 4 of 'focus'. '4. Of a disease: The principal seat (in the body); also, a point where its activity is manifest. 1684' [snip examples] > So it may well have been current epidemiological jargon for several > decades, and I suspect that the BBC is just reporting what their > hearing from the people working on the disease. And I suspect it's what Steve says, to wit journalists not understanding their own words. It's hardly an unusual phenomenon, even at the sainted Beeb (though I wouldn't place the Beeb at its epicentre). -- VB > [human rights jettisoned] > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > From the OED: '5. a. The centre of activity, or area of greatest > energy, of a storm, volcanic eruption, etc. 1796' For me, "focus" puts the emphasis on motion toward rather than motion away from. >> For "The place from which the damage started spreading", it seems >>like a pretty good metaphorical use. > > Though perhaps not as apt as a metaphorical use of the OED's Sense 4 > of 'focus'. '4. Of a disease: The principal seat (in the body); > also, a point where its activity is manifest. 1684' That's not necessarily the same thing. Indeed, once you take hospitals into account, the greatest incidence might be in cities, where people are going *to* to be treated (which is a good use of "focus") rather than where the disease initially spread from. > [snip examples] > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > even at the sainted Beeb (though I wouldn't place the Beeb at its > epicentre). There are enough Google Scholar hits that I doubt it. Just going by clear hits in snippets, I see it used that way in the _Journal of the American Dietetic Association_ (childhood obesity, 2008), the _New England Journal of Medicine_, (SARS, 2005), the _Journal of General Internal Medicine_ (tuberculosis, 2003), the _Yale-China Health Journal_ (AIDS, 2003), the _Internatinoal Journal of Health Geographics_ (SARS, 2007), the _Journal of NeuroImmune Pharmacology_ (HIV, 2007), the _Canadian Medical Association Journal_ (SARS, 2007), the _Hong Kong Medical Journal_ (avian flu, 2006), SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Society in every state is a blessing, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |but government, even in its best Palo Alto, CA 94304 |state is but a necessary evil; in its |worst state, an intolerable one. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | Thomas Paine (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Evan Kirshenbaum: > For me, "focus" puts the emphasis on motion toward rather than motion > away from. Consider earthquakes. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "The E-Mail of the species is more deadly msb@vex.net | than the Mail." -- Peter Neumann > Evan Kirshenbaum: >> For me, "focus" puts the emphasis on motion toward rather than motion >> away from. > > Consider earthquakes. That's where the strain concentrates until the fault slips. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Now every hacker knows 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | That the secret to survivin' Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Is knowin' when the time is free | And what's the load and queue kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |'Cause everyone's a cruncher (650)857-7572 | And everyone's a user |And the best that you can hope for http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Is a crash when you're through >> Evan Kirshenbaum: >>> For me, "focus" puts the emphasis on motion toward rather than motion >>> away from. >> Consider earthquakes. > > That's where the strain concentrates until the fault slips. It's also the point from which vibrations emanate. I quite like epicentre as an appropriate metaphor. At least it does not imply human agency, as 'ground zero' does, to me. SignatureMike Page Google me at port.ac.uk if you need to send an email. > > Evan Kirshenbaum: > >> For me, "focus" puts the emphasis on motion toward rather than motion > >> away from. > > Consider earthquakes. > That's where the strain concentrates until the fault slips. Consider a virtual image. While light rays from the whole object do converge on a focus, the image where the rays appear to diverge is "focused" on the far side of the lens or mirror. Consider a parabolic antenna. It may either transmit or receive at the focus--or both. ¬R Blather, Rinse, Repeat. http://users.bestweb.net/~notr/telecom.html [alt.conspiracy executive-actioned] > hlu...@yahoo.co.uk writes: [...] > >> For "The place from which the damage started spreading", it seems > >>like a pretty good metaphorical use. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > where people are going *to* to be treated (which is a good use of > "focus") rather than where the disease initially spread from. Not *necessarily* the same thing, but it is when talking of Mexico as the principal seat of the disease and the world as the body. > >> So it may well have been current epidemiological jargon for several > >> decades, and I suspect that the BBC is just reporting what their [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > (HIV, 2007), the _Canadian Medical Association Journal_ (SARS, 2007), > the _Hong Kong Medical Journal_ (avian flu, 2006), I agree. Those hits make you case. As does searching for 'epicentre' at a website I chanced upon the other day while looking into something else. Despite its creepy name, Eurosurveillance isn't the EU's Ministry of Love; it's 'a leading independent European scientific journal devoted to the epidemiology, surveillance, prevention and control of communicable diseases.' Six hits for 'epicentre', including this 1997 report on an outbreak of human monkeypox virus in the Dem. Rep. of Congo: <http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=1015> Three uses in that report alone. -- VB >[alt.conspiracy executive-actioned] > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > >Three uses in that report alone. But it seems that "epicentre" is not the right word for an event which occurs *above* ground level - that should be "hypocentre". A recent book on the Hiroshima bomb uses "hypocentre" consistently until about two thirds of the way through, then switches abruptly to "epicentre". SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" [alt.conspiracy successfully silenced on the second attempt] > >> hlu...@yahoo.co.uk writes: [...] > >> >> So it may well have been current epidemiological jargon for several > >> >> decades, and I suspect that the BBC is just reporting what their [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >> There are enough Google Scholar hits that I doubt it. Just going by > >> clear hits in snippets, I see it used that way in the _Journal of the [...] > >> the _Hong Kong Medical Journal_ (avian flu, 2006), > > >I agree. Those hits make you case. > > >As does searching for 'epicentre' at a website I chanced upon the > >other day while looking into something else. Despite its creepy name, [...] > But it seems that "epicentre" is not the right word for an event which > occurs *above* ground level - that should be "hypocentre". A recent > book on the Hiroshima bomb uses "hypocentre" consistently until about > two thirds of the way through, then switches abruptly to "epicentre". I think Evan's contention is that any word is right if it has been used by the right people for long enough and you're reporting a story about those right people. It's defensible. I'm undecided. -- VB Inselaffe >> The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the >> outbreak of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >one. For "The place from which the damage started spreading", it >seems like a pretty good metaphorical use. "Point of origin"? Metaphorical usage can sometimes give rise to confusion or ridiculous images where the literal meaning is also close to the surface as it were, like the municipal councillor who assured a reporter that "the sewerage is in the pipeline". Another example is the habit of some people of referring to any kind of hindrance as a "road block" in circumstances where one might picture a literal road block. In this case, conspiracy theorists have been suggesting that the current outbreak of swine flu has been caused by the use of a biological weapon, and when the BBC use imagery that suggests a weapon being dropped from a plane, one is not sure whether they are using it metaphorically oir literally. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>> The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the >>> outbreak of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > "Point of origin"? Nope. The point of origin for HIV was probably in the Congo. "Ground Zero" was used for places like the Castro, where it was both suddenly prevalent and was responsible for many people who took the disease elsewhere. > Metaphorical usage can sometimes give rise to confusion or > ridiculous images where the literal meaning is also close to the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > weapon being dropped from a plane, one is not sure whether they are > using it metaphorically oir literally. Being familiar with "ground zero" being used in epidemiological contexts and not having heard anybody talking about such conspiracies, I didn't have any confusion. And I would say that even if it was meant to refer to dropping a biological weapon from a plane, that would still be metaphorical, not literal. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Those who study history are doomed 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |to watch others repeat it. Palo Alto, CA 94304 kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the outbreak >of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >journalists not understanding the meanings of words like "ground zero" and >"epicentre"? This blog discusses what it calls "zero tropes", and the extension of "ground zero" to "time zero", "location zero","patient zero" etc. - http://3rdworldwired.com/page/5/ Apparently the official term for the first instance of an infectious disease outbreak is "index case". SignatureJohn >>The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the outbreak >>of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Apparently the official term for the first instance of an infectious >disease outbreak is "index case". That is the first "identified" instance. It is possible for earlier cases than the index case to be identified after the index case has been found and named. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) John O'Flaherty set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time continuum: >>Is the BBC really on to something here, or is it just another case of >>journalists not understanding the meanings of words like "ground zero" and >>"epicentre"? > > This blog discusses what it calls "zero tropes", and the extension of > "ground zero" to "time zero", "location zero","patient zero" etc. - In my mind's ear I can hear the opening strains of Bruckner's Symphony No. 0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._0_(Bruckner) Signatureξ:) Proud to be curly Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply > This blog discusses what it calls "zero tropes", and the extension of > "ground zero" to "time zero", "location zero","patient zero" etc. - [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Apparently the official term for the first instance of an infectious > disease outbreak is "index case". Yes, but is that indexing with origin 1 or origin 0? :-) SignatureMark Brader | "Should array indices start at 0 or 1? My ecumenical Toronto | compromise of 0.5 was rejected without, I thought, msb@vex.net | proper consideration." -- Stan Kelly-Bootle >> This blog discusses what it calls "zero tropes", and the extension of >> "ground zero" to "time zero", "location zero","patient zero" etc. - [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Yes, but is that indexing with origin 1 or origin 0? :-) Disease 1, person 0. :-) SignatureJohn Steve Hayes filted: >The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the outbreak >of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >journalists not understanding the meanings of words like "ground zero" and >"epicentre"? "Ground zero" is a common misamplification of "square one".... (Definition of "ground Zero": finely chopped Japanese fighter plane)....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > (Definition of "ground Zero": finely chopped Japanese fighter > plane)....r "Ground" has to mean pulverised or powdered to me; not chopped, however finely. If the powder gets up your nose, it makes you go "mitsubishi!" SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > > (Definition of "ground Zero": finely chopped Japanese fighter > > plane)....r [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > If the powder gets up your nose, it makes you go "mitsubishi!" Gesundheit. Signature³The fox knows many things - the hedgehog, one big one.² Archilochus >> (Definition of "ground Zero": finely chopped Japanese fighter >> plane)....r Mexican sausage? > "Ground" has to mean pulverised or powdered to me; not chopped, > however finely. > If the powder gets up your nose, it makes you go "mitsubishi!" Or sometimes "zoomzoomzoom". CDB filted: >>> (Definition of "ground Zero": finely chopped Japanese fighter >>> plane)....r > >Mexican sausage? Hikoki molida....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the outbreak > of swine flu. > > This implies that the virus was dropped from a plane, What I've read suggests that it was at least partly dropped from a bird, so it might not be all that inapt. ¬R >> The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the >> outbreak of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What I've read suggests that it was at least partly dropped from a bird, > so it might not be all that inapt. Maybe pigs do fly in Mexico... SignatureLes (BrE) >> The BBC has just reported the pinpinting of the "ground zero" of the outbreak >> of swine flu. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >What I've read suggests that it was at least partly dropped from a bird, >so it might not be all that inapt. It's a bird. It's a plane. It's Superbug! SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2012 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.