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Something to the effect of

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Paul Brians - 03 May 2009 16:29 GMT
I've always thought of the phrases to be used when loosely reporting
the content of someone else's speech to be as discussed in the Merriam-
Webster's Learner's Dictionary:

to that effect or to the effect that —used to indicate that the
meaning of words is roughly correct even if the words themselves are
not completely accurate ▪ He said more time was needed to reach a
decision, or words to that effect. = He said something to the effect
that more time was needed to reach a decision.

The American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms:

With that basic or general meaning, as in He said he was very worried,
or words to that effect. This term is also put as to the effect that
when introducing a clause, as in She was a little vague but said
something to the effect that she'd repay the loan very soon.
[Mid-1600s]

Oxford English Dictionary:

effect. n. Purport; drift, tenor, essential significance. Now only in
phrases, as to the effect that, to that (also this) effect, words to
that effect.

But I see that usage on the Web has strongly shifted towards
"something to the effect of" rather than "that."

"of": 1,280,000
"that": 286,000

In the edited English of Google Books, "that" is more common, but not
by a huge margin:

"of": 824
"that": 1,564

I suspect this shift is influenced by more common uses of "effect of"
in contexts like "the effect of these compliments was to make him
conceited."

Of course hordes of people write "to the affect of" and "to the affect
that"--a familiar spelling error.

But what do you think of "to the effect of"? It sounds like a mistake
to me. Does anybody know of any formal discussion of this point?

Paul Brians
Don Phillipson - 03 May 2009 16:50 GMT
> I've always thought of the phrases to be used when loosely reporting
> the content of someone else's speech to be as discussed in the Merriam-
> Webster's Learner's Dictionary:

This is not clear.  You appear to mean you rely on the MWLD
for grammatical advice concerning reported speech, but
"loosely" remains unclear.

> . . . Oxford English Dictionary:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> "of": 1,280,000
> "that": 286,000 . . .

Searching only for two-word strings may be unreliable:  this
pair occurs in sentences, and we usually need contextual
sentences in order to be able to parse accurately.

> I suspect this shift is influenced by more common uses of "effect of"
> in contexts like "the effect of these compliments was to make him
> conceited." . . .
>
> But what do you think of "to the effect of"? It sounds like a mistake
> to me. Does anybody know of any formal discussion of this point?

Your intuition (or mine) of what sounds like a mistake is not
by itself conclusive.  We need factual evidence, which may be
a grammatical rule or statistical observations of usage (as above.)
Nothing seems wrong in a sentence like:
The blue lever opens the escape hatch, the green lever has the
effect of flushing the system, and the red lever has no function:
but it suggests how often a single verb (participle) is stylistically
better than "has the effect of X" or "has the effect that X."

Signature

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Mark Brader - 03 May 2009 17:11 GMT
Paul Brians:
> I've always thought of the phrases to be used when loosely reporting
> the content of someone else's speech to be as discussed in the Merriam-
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> decision, or words to that effect. = He said something to the effect
> that more time was needed to reach a decision.

> ...But I see that usage on the Web has strongly shifted towards
> "something to the effect of" rather than "that."

> But what do you think of "to the effect of"? It sounds like a mistake
> to me.

I think "that" must introduce a clause while "of" must introduce a
noun or equivalent.  That could be something in the form of a quotation,
in this case a paraphrase.  So I'd accept either of:

  1. He said something to the effect that more time was needed.
  2. He said something to the effect of "more time is needed".

[In 2, adjust the quote-punctuation conventions according to preference.]

But I would not accept "of" in 1, or 2 without quotation marks.

> Does anybody know of any formal discussion of this point?

Not me.
Signature

Mark Brader, Toronto | Let me know if that is a convincing argument.
msb@vex.net          | If it is, I'll try it on myself.  --Maria Conlon

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Garrett Wollman - 03 May 2009 17:36 GMT
>But what do you think of "to the effect of"? It sounds like a mistake
>to me.

I think it's fine.  The object of "of" should be thought of as being a
quotation, but something weaker than literal reported speech, which
doesn't have any consistently-understood typographical
representation.  You will probably note that constructions of this
form typically sound like reported speech; it's a way for the user to
distance himself from any presumption of accuracy.

-GAWollman

Signature

Garrett A. Wollman   | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those   | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL.     | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness

 
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