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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009Silly return-address labels
Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific and it is totally inappropriate for a man to use it in referring to himself. Somehow the people who design the free return-address labels that are so widely disseminated are too ignorant to know this, so I repeatedly get stacks of labels starting with "Mr. Egbert White." They ask for a donation. If they want a donation from me, they'll have to first drop the "Mr." I decline to use a label telling the world that I am "Mr. Egbert White."  SignatureEgbert White | Wagner's music is not as bad as it sounds. WAmE | <Mark Twain> > Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I > won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > first drop the "Mr." I decline to use a label telling the world that > I am "Mr. Egbert White." I feel a stern letter to the editor coming on. Signature"All of life's riddles are answered in the movies." - Steve Martin >> Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I >> won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I feel a stern letter to the editor coming on. You are of course going to write all the letters you want to, but I don't see what that has to do with my remarks, which I hoped would be read by someone who is responsible for the content of return-address labels. Just out of curiosity, though, what editor of what publication are you going to write a letter to, and what about? SignatureEgbert White | You can fool some of the people some of the WAme | time -- and that's enough to make a decent | living. (W.C.Fields) > > I feel a stern letter to the editor coming on. > You are of course going to write all the letters you want to, but I > don't see what that has to do with my remarks, which I hoped would be > read by someone who is responsible for the content of return-address > labels. I think you'll find your expectations disappointed. SignatureBob Lieblich Who has had that experience many times >> > I feel a stern letter to the editor coming on. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I think you'll find your expectations disappointed. But I won't know it. Ignorance is bliss. Anyway, among the thousands of people who participate here at some level, and the additional thousands who merely lurk, who wants to assume that absolutely none of them have anything to do with design of self-address labels? SignatureEgbert White, | "I love Americans, but not when they try WAme | to talk French. What a blessing it is that | that they never try to talk English." | -- Saki's Mrs. Mebberley >>> > I feel a stern letter to the editor coming on. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >thousands who merely lurk, who wants to assume that absolutely none of >them have anything to do with design of self-address labels? The freebies that we receive in the mail come from organizations like the Disabled Veterans or The Little Sisters of the Poor. (Yeah, we're Catholic) They are unsolicited gifts sent with a begging letter for donations. They think by giving me something that I will give them something. They are wrong. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > The freebies that we receive in the mail come from organizations > like the Disabled Veterans or The Little Sisters of the Poor. > (Yeah, we're Catholic) They are unsolicited gifts sent with a > begging letter for donations. They think by giving me something > that I will give them something. They are wrong. In your specific case, perhaps, but I'm pretty sure that good studies have shown that such "gifts" do increase the return rate. Probably by making it more likely that people will actually open the envelope (to get the labels) rather than just tossing it unopened. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Theories are not matters of fact, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |they are derived from observing Palo Alto, CA 94304 |fact. If you don't have data, you |don't get good theories. You get kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |theology instead. (650)857-7572 | --John Lawler http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I > won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > they'll have to first drop the "Mr." I decline to use a label > telling the world that I am "Mr. Egbert White." It does give the recipient leave to address you as "Dear Mr. White" -- a fair guess as long as you're Egbert, but suppose you were Mr. Shirley White. Signature--- Joe Fineman joe_f@verizon.net ||: Reason will conflict with faith so long as respect for :|| ||: evidence conflicts with contempt for evidence. :|| >> Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I >> won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > a fair guess as long as you're Egbert, but suppose you were > Mr. Shirley White. I agree. Apart from ambiguous names like Les and Chris, there are a number of foreign names that would give the recipient no clue. And then there are the people who wish to be addressed as Doctor or even some pretentious title. SignatureRob Bannister >>> Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I >>> won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >there are the people who wish to be addressed as Doctor or even some >pretentious title. My daughter's first name is a family last name. She often receives mail address to "Mr...". I guess the mailing list people figure chances are 50/50 they're right. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >>>> Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I >>>> won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >mail address to "Mr...". I guess the mailing list people figure >chances are 50/50 they're right. AUE used to have a regular participant named Robin (maybe still does). He told us that in high school he once found himself assigned to a girls' gym class. This seems a good time to mention once more what has previously mentioned in AUE, that the Los Angeles Times has reported receiving mail with the salutation "Dear Dr. Los Angeles Times." Signature"How dreary, to be...Somebody! How public, like a frog, to tell one's name, the live-long June, to an admiring bog!" <Emily Dickinson> > This seems a good time to mention once more what has previously > mentioned in AUE, that the Los Angeles Times has reported receiving > mail with the salutation "Dear Dr. Los Angeles Times." I pick up the mail for the "Bella Corte HOA"[1]. Ms. Hoa has received mail on several occasions, once being offered a spot in _Who's Who_. [1] Homeowners Association. Officially with no apostrophe. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |English grammar is not taught in 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |primary or secondary schools in the Palo Alto, CA 94304 |United States. Sometimes some |mythology is taught under that kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |rubric, but luckily it's usually (650)857-7572 |ignored, except by the credulous. | John Lawler http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ [...] > I pick up the mail for the "Bella Corte HOA"[1]. Ms. Hoa has received > mail on several occasions, once being offered a spot in _Who's Who_. Go on, if it's not too long ago: I dare you. (A friend had to confess, very late in the process, that a part-entry submitted for the NSOED had in fact been a joke, which nobody had spotted.) > [1] Homeowners Association. Officially with no apostrophe. SignatureMike. Egbert White filted: >This seems a good time to mention once more what has previously >mentioned in AUE, that the Los Angeles Times has reported receiving >mail with the salutation "Dear Dr. Los Angeles Times." Until 1989, the second newspaper in Los Angeles was the Herald-Examiner, subject of a running gag on "Sanford and Son"...Fred would get worked up into a lather about something, and call the paper: "Hello, Herald-Examiner? Let me speak to Herald" (Redd Foxx was MIMIM).... Is the popular story about a letter addressed to "Mr. Intl B. MacHines" merely an urban legend?...r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Is the popular story about a letter addressed to "Mr. Intl > B. MacHines" merely an urban legend?...r The one hit I got on it tells it in first person: In the 1970's, when I worked for International Business Machines (IBM) we received a letter from American Express addressed to: Mr. Intl B. MacHines. I swear this is true. I still have the letter. <URL:http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2009/03/13/ deadbeat-man-dead-for-450-years-gets-tv-bill/> As this is recent and the commenter is identified, presumably you could ask him for a scan. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The bathwater, in this case, does 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |not appear to ever have contained Palo Alto, CA 94304 |any baby. | kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | ronniecat (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> Is the popular story about a letter addressed to "Mr. Intl >> B. MacHines" merely an urban legend?...r [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > As this is recent and the commenter is identified, presumably you > could ask him for a scan. I like the automatic capitalisation. I - surnamed "Atty" - have had computer generated letters address to "Dr Attorney" before now. Thanks to my use of the Internet, and familiarity with AmE abbreviations, I at least understood why. My father, who received similar letters to "Mr Attorney" was baffled. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu Nick filted: >>> Is the popular story about a letter addressed to "Mr. Intl >>> B. MacHines" merely an urban legend?...r [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >least understood why. My father, who received similar letters to "Mr >Attorney" was baffled. I once had to write a program to convert a list of mailing addresses to fields that could be sorted (by last name, zip code, etc, depending on the use to which the addresses were being put)...the original file had only the lines for the label itself, all caps, with a delimiter to tell a much older program when to skip to the next label...thus there were labels with six lines of address, others with only two, and wildly inconsistent policies about where the state and zip code might be found (a lot of people apparently think "AR" means "Arizona").... The same program had to make an intelligent guess about the correct capitalization, since the list was being used to drive a template for a cover page to accompany newsletters, and they didn't want letters to start: Dear Mr. KIRSHENBAUM, As for first and last names, I had to allow for either or both to be multi-word, with a possible middle initial included...there was no "MARY ANN VAN DE KAMP" in the database, but it takes a clever program to figure out where to make the break in something like that...and then there were the variations of spacing: "MC COY" vs "MCCOY".... The one anomaly I was never able to program for, and the database had to be corrected manually, was that two surnames that began with "MAC" were not using it as a prefix...no reasonable rule I could devise would prevent the program from capitalizing the first letter following that prefix....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? Nick wrote, in <87eiv2xckr.fsf@temporary-address.org.uk> on Wed, 06 May 2009 20:20:52 +0100: > >> Is the popular story about a letter addressed to "Mr. Intl > >> B. MacHines" merely an urban legend?...r [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > least understood why. My father, who received similar letters to "Mr > Attorney" was baffled. A program of mine which handles entries for regattas has automatic capitalisation. It has an exception file which among other things makes sure that if we ever get an entry from someone in Macclesfield again it will not appear as MacClesfield. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >>>>> Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I >>>>> won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >He told us that in high school he once found himself assigned to a >girls' gym class. It certainly has one Robin, who would probably have given his right arm after puberty struck to have been invited to a girl's gym class. Some of those school fences that I mentioned in a previous post were about 15 feet high and built to keep the senior girls school inviolate from the senior boys. On days when the girls were doing games the windows of the boys' school that faced the playing fields were covered with blinds. SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England >>>>>> Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I >>>>>> won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >windows of the boys' school that faced the playing fields were covered >with blinds. The Robin I was referring to was not you. Maybe I should have mentioned that. Anyway, in my high school one of the boys' rest rooms was separated by only a locked door from the room where the girls changed clothes for gym. The door had a gap of a fraction of an inch at the bottom. Some of the naughtier boys would pour water on the floor making a reasonably good mirror in which the girls could be observed in various stages of undress, some in the altogether. A friend of mine told me that the time he tried it, the girls seemed to be wise to the tactic, so all of the naked ones were being careful to stand facing away from the door. SignatureEgbert White | Nostalgia is like a grammar lesson: WAmE | You find the present tense, but the | past perfect. <Historian Owen Pomeroy> > On Wed, 06 May 2009 22:11:06 +0100, Robin Bignall > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > to be wise to the tactic, so all of the naked ones were being careful > to stand facing away from the door. So they were quite happy to display their derrieres, rather than simply mop up the water and/or block up the gap before disrobing? Hmmmm.... Mike M >> On Wed, 06 May 2009 22:11:06 +0100, Robin Bignall >> >> <docro...@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>> It certainly has one Robin, who would probably have given his right >>> arm after puberty struck to have been invited to a girl's gym class. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > simply mop up the water and/or block up the gap before disrobing? > Hmmmm.... I wonder. I understand that girls are a bit more modest than guys, even when unobserved. They don't tend to parade their glories amongs their fellows. [ ... ] > I wonder. I understand that girls are a bit more modest than guys, even > when unobserved. They don't tend to parade their glories amongs their > fellows. Is "fellow girls" an oxymoron? SignatureBob Lieblich Enquiring Mind > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is "fellow girls" an oxymoron? Not as long as they can say to each other: Hey, guys, what say we take in a movie? And those magicians of language corruption insisted that "fellow-travelers" could include females as well as males. > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Is "fellow girls" an oxymoron? I wouldn't say so. The OED only uses "one" it its definitions, e.g. One that is associated with another in habitual or temporary companionship; a companion, associate, comrade They note a subsense of that as "less frequently said of women", which they mark as obsolete and cite from ca. 1330 through 1611, but it doesn't strike me as at all strange. Google Books has hits for "fellow-girls" from 1879 [Attn Jesse Sheidlower: OED postdating] ... but it is certain that I have more interest, and find more sympathy (as a rule) in the conversation of my fellow-men than I do in that of my fellow-women--and particularly of my fellow-girls. Ada Cambridge, _In Two Years Time_, 1879 [The speaker is a woman] to the present. It was nice to have fellow girls of her own age, who understood the trials that she endured on a daily basis, to laugh, learn and commiserate with. Heath Fogelman, _The Girl in the Swing_, 2007 Checking other probably female nouns, "fellow-nurses" goes back to at least 1840 From the conversations I overheard between her and her fellow-nurses, I found their attendance on the cottage invalids had been indiscriminately apportioned, and that Helen's arm was as frankly tendered as dame McQuillan's to support the wounded artist when stouter aids were occupied elsewhere. [Isabella Steward], _The Interdict_, 1840 and forward to 2009. "Fellow-ladies" from 1845 to 2008. "Fellow-women" from 1823 to 2009. Bare "fellows" in that sense is, of course, hard to search for, but I do see things like She shall be brought unto the King in raiment of needlework: the virgins that be her fellows shall bear her company, and shall be brought unto thee. Ps. 45:15, _The Book of Common Prayer_, [1785] And in this room of hers, that stood above the King's Hall, there were lodged with her all the ladies who were her fellows. Arthur Machen (tr), Marguerite de Navarre, _The Heptameron_, 1886 SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |There are just two rules of 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |governance in a free society: Mind Palo Alto, CA 94304 |your own business. Keep your hands |to yourself. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com | P.J. O'Rourke (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >[ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Is "fellow girls" an oxymoron? Sometimes I've even wondered about 'bosom pals.' SignatureEgbert White, | "I love Americans, but not when they try WAme | to talk French. What a blessing it is that | that they never try to talk English." | -- Saki's Mrs. Mebberley > It certainly has one Robin, who would probably have given his right > arm after puberty struck to have been invited to a girl's gym class. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > windows of the boys' school that faced the playing fields were covered > with blinds. I did a short spell of teaching at Ware Grammar School (for girls). One classroom, where I gave rather poor history lessons to 11-year-olds had a changing room next-door separated only by a wall of glass - not frosted, but sort of bubbled. Some of the 15-year-olds changing there, presumably aware of the only male in the school, would press their naked bodies against the glass, which made them pretty much visible. My little 11-year-olds never seemed to notice this, but I'm afraid I did. SignatureRob Bannister > AUE used to have a regular participant named Robin (maybe still does). > He told us that in high school he once found himself assigned to a > girls' gym class. WIWAL I had never heard of (human, rather than avian) female Robins. I would assume the name to be exclusively male (a la Mr. R. Hood). Some friends of ours in the late 1980s named their daughter Robyn with a "y", which rather surprised me, but it seems to be more widespread nowadays. Mike M >WIWAL I had never heard of (human, rather than avian) female Robins. I >would assume the name to be exclusively male (a la Mr. R. Hood). Female seems to be the normal gender in my world (WIWAL was not as long ago as WYWAL); I was surprised when I heard about male Robins. >Some friends of ours in the late 1980s named their daughter Robyn with >a "y", which rather surprised me, but it seems to be more widespread >nowadays. In 1955, Isaac and Gertrude Asimov named their only daughter "Robyn". -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >> WIWAL I had never heard of (human, rather than avian) female >> Robins. I would assume the name to be exclusively male (a la Mr. >> R. Hood). > Female seems to be the normal gender in my world (WIWAL was not as > long ago as WYWAL); I was surprised when I heard about male Robins. >> Some friends of ours in the late 1980s named their daughter Robyn >> with a "y", which rather surprised me, but it seems to be more >> widespread nowadays. > In 1955, Isaac and Gertrude Asimov named their only daughter > "Robyn". Predating, somebody. In 1942, roughly, friends of my parents, V*** by name, christened their daughter Robyn. She was my friend ex officio, even after she laid my chest open with a toy shovel when we were seven. But I kept a closer eye on her after that. No name because I find she's googlable. > >WIWAL I had never heard of (human, rather than avian) female Robins. I > >would assume the name to be exclusively male (a la Mr. R. Hood). > > Female seems to be the normal gender in my world (WIWAL was not as > long ago as WYWAL); I was surprised when I heard about male Robins. Robert McNeil (of the McNeil-Lehrer Report, still carried on by Lehrer without McNeil), was born and reared in Canada and was actually named "Robin," though called (in the US sense) "Robert" in professional life. In those relaxed moments that seem to be programmed into so many shows, his colleagues called him "Robin." At first I thought it was a nickname, but I soon learned otherwise. I suspect that today he'd go by "Robin" in professional life. > >Some friends of ours in the late 1980s named their daughter Robyn with > >a "y", which rather surprised me, but it seems to be more widespread > >nowadays. > > In 1955, Isaac and Gertrude Asimov named their only daughter "Robyn". I've known a couple of "Robyn"s and a couple of "Robin"s. All were female. (I exclude AUE participants.) SignatureBob Lieblich Occasionally called "Rob" (or "Dick") >>> WIWAL I had never heard of (human, rather than avian) female >>> Robins. I would assume the name to be exclusively male (a la Mr. R. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I've known a couple of "Robyn"s and a couple of "Robin"s. All were > female. (I exclude AUE participants.) Remember Robin Coulcourt in Cheers? Of course, it was only a male character's name. British, though. SignatureSkitt (AmE) [ ... ] > > I've known a couple of "Robyn"s and a couple of "Robin"s. All were > > female. (I exclude AUE participants.) > > Remember Robin Coulcourt in Cheers? Of course, it was only a male > character's name. British, though. Vague recollection only. I was using "known" in a sense that excludes "known of." SignatureBob Lieblich It all depends on whether the meaning of "known" is known [ ... ] > > I've known a couple of "Robyn"s and a couple of "Robin"s. All were > > female. (I exclude AUE participants.) > > Remember Robin Coulcourt in Cheers? Of course, it was only a male > character's name. British, though. Vague recollection only. I was using "known" in a sense that excludes "known of." SignatureBob Lieblich It all depends on whether the meaning of "known" is known > I've known a couple of "Robyn"s and a couple of "Robin"s. All were > female. (I exclude AUE participants.) I've known a couple who were Robin and Robyn. Never met a female Robin nor a male Robyn (though I've heard of some of the latter, with Welsh connections). SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >Female seems to be the normal gender in my world (WIWAL was not as >long ago as WYWAL); I was surprised when I heard about male Robins. You thought Robin Hood and Maid Marian were a couple of lesbians? Or are you saying you never heard of Robin Hood? Another (male) Robin. >>Female seems to be the normal gender in my world (WIWAL was not as >>long ago as WYWAL); I was surprised when I heard about male Robins. > >You thought Robin Hood and Maid Marian were a couple of lesbians? I doubt I thought of Robin Hood at all. Never saw or read anything on the subject, so it was just general social exposure. I probably thought the name was odd if I noticed. -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >>> Female seems to be the normal gender in my world (WIWAL was not as >>> long ago as WYWAL); I was surprised when I heard about male Robins. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the subject, so it was just general social exposure. I probably > thought the name was odd if I noticed. Robin, Nobbin, Dobbin and Hobbin are all variants of Robert if you go back far enough. SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister filted: >Robin, Nobbin, Dobbin and Hobbin are all variants of Robert if you go >back far enough. You forgot "Puck"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Robert Bannister filted: >> Robin, Nobbin, Dobbin and Hobbin are all variants of Robert if you go >> back far enough. > > You forgot "Puck"....r So that young man with a cold was just telling me to "Robert off". SignatureRob Bannister Robert Bannister filted: >> Robert Bannister filted: >>> Robin, Nobbin, Dobbin and Hobbin are all variants of Robert if you go [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >So that young man with a cold was just telling me to "Robert off". Yes, there's a Good fellow....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >> Robert Bannister filted: >>> Robin, Nobbin, Dobbin and Hobbin are all variants of Robert if >>> you go back far enough. >> You forgot "Puck"....r > So that young man with a cold was just telling me to "Robert off". Yes, he was saying "Don't stop here." >>Female seems to be the normal gender in my world (WIWAL was not as >>long ago as WYWAL); I was surprised when I heard about male Robins. > > You thought Robin Hood and Maid Marian were a couple of lesbians? > Or are you saying you never heard of Robin Hood? Speaking as an American, as a child I always took "Robin Hood" to be the name and "Robin" just a shortening of it. The notion that his Merry Men thought of his name as actually being "Robin" wouldn't have occurred to me. I'm not sure I thought of it necessarily as a girl's name, though. I encountered baseball player Robin Yount in 1974 and Robin Williams in 1978. And, of course, there was Batman's sidekick. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The body was wrapped in duct tape, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |weighted down with concrete blocks Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and a telephone cord was tied |around the neck. Police suspect kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |foul play... (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ <in a signature> > |The body was wrapped in duct tape, > |weighted down with concrete blocks > |and a telephone cord was tied > |around the neck. Police suspect > |foul play... There's a sort of similar thing that has been used to illustrate euphemism: | The woman had been dragged into an alley, beaten severely | around her head and body, and tortured with cigaretter burns. | She had also been attacked. SignatureEgbert White | You can fool some of the people some of the WAme | time -- and that's enough to make a decent | living. (W.C.Fields) >>>Female seems to be the normal gender in my world (WIWAL was not as >>>long ago as WYWAL); I was surprised when I heard about male Robins. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Merry Men thought of his name as actually being "Robin" wouldn't have >occurred to me. This surely goes along with the cross-pondian difference in pronunciation. Those of us on the Sherwood Forest side of the Atlantic usually pronounce it ROB-in HOOD, whereas you on the Hollywood side lean towards RAH-bnhd. We hear two separate names, so we're more inclined to think of it a first name and surname, whereas to you it must be more like a double first name. Or even, now I come to think of it, like a quality or state, like childhood or manhood but not like neighbo(u)rhood. Robinhood: the essence or quiddity of Robin. SignatureKaty Jennison spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @ Wood Avens filted: >>Speaking as an American, as a child I always took "Robin Hood" to be >>the name and "Robin" just a shortening of it. The notion that his [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >not like neighbo(u)rhood. Robinhood: the essence or quiddity of >Robin. I'd go back to primary sources to settle the matter, but unfortunately the earliest spoken record I'll find is likely to refer to a Tasmanian actor....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >> Female seems to be the normal gender in my world (WIWAL was not as >> long ago as WYWAL); I was surprised when I heard about male Robins. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Another (male) Robin. OTOH, I did know a young woman named Robin Hood. She was a PE teacher and she admitted somewhat shyly that she had had a go at archery. SignatureRob Bannister > > AUE used to have a regular participant named Robin (maybe still > > does). He told us that in high school he once found himself > > assigned to a girls' gym class. > > WIWAL I had never heard of (human, rather than avian) female Robins. I > would assume the name to be exclusively male (a la Mr. R. Hood). It's not currently popular for either male or female children in the US. As a female name, it was in the top 100 from the early 50s through late 70s, peaking in the 60s in the top 30. As a male name, the best it ever did was 160th in the mid-50s. > Some friends of ours in the late 1980s named their daughter Robyn with > a "y", which rather surprised me, but it seems to be more widespread > nowadays. That wasn't as popular as the other spelling. Interestingly, its peak came a good ten years later. All data from: <http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/> Brian SignatureDay 94 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project <shkip> >I guess the mailing list people figure >chances are 50/50 they're right. I used a similar philosophy when we were taking a tour of Virginia. I would alternate between saying "Montichello" and "Montisello," assuming that I was probably close enough half the time. Signature"How dreary, to be...Somebody! How public, like a frog, to tell one's name, the live-long June, to an admiring bog!" <Emily Dickinson> ><shkip> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >would alternate between saying "Montichello" and "Montisello," >assuming that I was probably close enough half the time. Hah! There are about three cities in Virginia where you might mispronounce the names. There are about three cities in the entire country of Wales where you might get close to being able to pronounce the name. (Is it Sim-roo or Kym-roo?) SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >><shkip> >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > country of Wales where you might get close to being able to pronounce > the name. (Is it Sim-roo or Kym-roo?) Gym-roo, innit? SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu >><shkip> >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >country of Wales where you might get close to being able to pronounce >the name. (Is it Sim-roo or Kym-roo?) Cum-ree SignatureJames >>I used a similar philosophy when we were taking a tour of Virginia. I >>would alternate between saying "Montichello" and "Montisello," >>assuming that I was probably close enough half the time. > > Hah! There are about three cities in Virginia where you might > mispronounce the names. Staunton, Buena Vista, and Montevideo? SignatureNobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public. [Mencken] >>> Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I >>> won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >there are the people who wish to be addressed as Doctor or even some >pretentious title. A replier to a letter is not likely to look at the return-address label for clarification of sexual preference. The proper place to look for that sort of clarification is in the letter itself, either in the body or in the signature. If it were necessary for me to let a reader know that my "Egbert" is not a female name, I might do it by signing the letter "(Mr.) Egbert White." Putting the "Mr." in parens makes it seem less like a presumptuous self-honorification and more like a gender clarification. Signature"How dreary, to be...Somebody! How public, like a frog, to tell one's name, the live-long June, to an admiring bog!" <Emily Dickinson> >> Men don't call themselves 'Mister.' If someone asks me my name, I >> won't say 'I am Mister Egbert White.' The mister is an honorific [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >a fair guess as long as you're Egbert, but suppose you were >Mr. Shirley White. If that sort of clarification is called for, the proper place to do it is in the message itself, either in the body or in the signature. Signature"How dreary, to be...Somebody! How public, like a frog, to tell one's name, the live-long June, to an admiring bog!" <Emily Dickinson> |
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