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Allowing him his head

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Marius Hancu - 06 May 2009 06:07 GMT
Hello:

"To allow his head"
is this
"to allow him freedom (head)"
or
"to allow his mind to manifest itself independently"

----
[Uncle Giles, which is in a long-standing conflict with parts of his
family, has just smoked in the the (public-school) house while visiting
his nephew]

Quite apart from all the bother that this was going to cause, I felt a
twinge of regret that I had not managed to control Uncle Giles more
effectively: in so much that I had been brought up to regard any form of
allowing his head as a display of weakness on the part of his own family.

A Dance to the Music of Time, Spring, by Anthony Powell, p. 22
------

Also:
your take on "in so much that" here?

--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 06 May 2009 11:00 GMT
>Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>or
>"to allow his mind to manifest itself independently"

It could be both. It is a metaphor from horse riding. To let a horse
"have its head" is to slacken the reins so that the horse is not under
tight control by the rider.

>----
>[Uncle Giles, which is in a long-standing conflict with parts of his
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Also:
>your take on "in so much that" here?

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 09 May 2009 11:00 GMT
On May 6, 6:00 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:

> >"To allow his head"
> >is this
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> "have its head" is to slacken the reins so that the horse is not under
> tight control by the rider.

Thanks.

> >----
> >[Uncle Giles, which is in a long-standing conflict with parts of his
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> >Also:
> >your take on "in so much that" here?

How about this one?

Marius Hancu
Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 09 May 2009 13:43 GMT
>> >----
>> >[Uncle Giles, which is in a long-standing conflict with parts of his
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>How about this one?

It is odd.

"in so much" is in the OED as a single word. It is not marked obsolete,
but I'd describe it as dated.

   insomuch, adv.

   1. absol. To such an extent or degree; so much, so far. rare.
   
   2. insomuch as.
      a. Inasmuch[1] as, in that, seeing that, since.
      c. To such an extent as, so as: see 1.

   3. insomuch that: To such an extent that, so that. (The most usual
      construction.)

I'm familiar with sense 3. Sense 2.a., which I haven't met before, is
the one that seems to fit.

   Quite apart from all the bother that this was going to cause, I felt
   a twinge of regret that I had not managed to control Uncle Giles
   more effectively: *seeing that* (or *since*) I had been brought up
   to regard any form of allowing his head as a display of weakness on
   the part of his own family.

For me there is potential ambiguity in the sentence. Does "seeing that I
had been brought up to regard" qualify "I felt a twinge of regret" or "I
had been brought up to regard"?

This ambiguity is enhanced by the fact that the "...brought up to
regard..." clause is set off from the rest of the sentence by a colon
when it might be better to attach it to the clause to which it refers
with no intervening punctuation:

   Quite apart from all the bother that this was going to cause, I felt
   a twinge of regret that I had not managed to control Uncle Giles
   more effectively *because* I had been brought up
   to regard any form of allowing his head as a display of weakness on
   the part of his own family.

[1] inasmuch, adv.

   I. In phrase inasmuch as.
   
   1. In so far as, to such a degree as, in proportion as, according
      as.
   
   2. In that; in view of the fact that; seeing that; considering that;
      on the ground or for the reason that; since, because.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 11 May 2009 11:47 GMT
On May 9, 8:43 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:

> >> >[Uncle Giles, which is in a long-standing conflict with parts of his
> >> >family, has just smoked in the the (public-school) house while visiting
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>     to regard any form of allowing his head as a display of weakness on
>     the part of his own family.

Neither did I see anything comparable. Seems to fit.

Thanks.
Marius Hancu
CDB - 09 May 2009 13:46 GMT
[...]

>>> [Uncle Giles, who is in a long-standing conflict with parts of
>>> his family, has just smoked in the the (public-school) house
>>> while visiting his nephew]

>>> Quite apart from all the bother that this was going to cause, I
>>> felt a twinge of regret that I had not managed to control Uncle
>>> Giles more effectively: in so much that I had been brought up to
>>> regard any form of allowing [him] his head as a display of
>>> weakness on
>>> the part of his own family.

>>> A Dance to the Music of Time, Spring, by Anthony Powell, p. 22
>>> ------

IFYPFY.

>>> your take on "in so much that" here?

> How about this one?

Did you not like my suggestion in the previous thread, that it was a
mixture of "inasmuch as" and insofar as"?   "Because I had been
brought up to regard... and to the extent that I had been brought up
to regard...".  Can't think of anything else it would mean.  Well,
maybe "the more so, because" is slightly different, but I got that
from context, not because the words of the phrase lead to it.
Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 11 May 2009 11:52 GMT
> >>> Quite apart from all the bother that this was going to cause, I
> >>> felt a twinge of regret that I had not managed to control Uncle
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> maybe "the more so, because" is slightly different, but I got that
> from context, not because the words of the phrase lead to it.

"Because" works by itself, however I have a difficulty digesting it at
the same time with "to the extent that".

You may be right though.

Glad to see  I wasn't the only one wondering about it.

Thanks.
Marius Hancu
 
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