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'Relationship among  four aspects'

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Django Cat - 07 May 2009 08:36 GMT
My proofreading client has written this in the caption to a diagram:

"Relationship among the four aspects of stakeholder theory"

OK, he's obviously learnt, quite correctly, that you can only be
'between' two things and not more, but I think this is screaming out to
be changed to

"Relationship between the four aspects of stakeholder theory"

I suppose I could weasel out and edit it to:

"Relationship of the four aspects of stakeholder theory"

Hmm.  Your thoughts, as always, appreciated.

DC
--
HVS - 07 May 2009 08:48 GMT
On 07 May 2009, Django Cat wrote

> My proofreading client has written this in the caption to a
> diagram:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> OK, he's obviously learnt, quite correctly, that you can only be
> 'between' two things and not more,

"learnt, quite correctly"?

The 1968 Fowler refers to it as a superstition, and Burchfield puts
it like this:

(quote)

Many people cling to the idea that /between/ is used of two and
/among/ of many, but the OED maintains that "In all senses,
/between/ has been, from its earliest appearance, extended to more
than two. . .It is still the only word available to express the
relatio of a thing to many surrounding things severally and
individually, /among/ expressing a relation to them collectively
and vaguely."

(/quote)

> but I think this is screaming
> out to be changed to
>
> "Relationship between the four aspects of stakeholder theory"

Your reaction is both correct and proper;  the "quite correct"
principle being followed by your client is a superstition.

Signature

Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed

Django Cat - 07 May 2009 09:19 GMT
> On 07 May 2009, Django Cat wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Your reaction is both correct and proper;  the "quite correct"
> principle being followed by your client is a superstition.

Oh, really?  Brilliant, thanks Harvey.

DC

--
Paul Wolff - 07 May 2009 09:45 GMT
>HVS wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
>Oh, really?  Brilliant, thanks Harvey.

My instinct is to make "relationship" plural, when "relationships among
the four aspects of stakeholder theory" reads quite naturally.

I'm not sure if it's logically possible that there be only one
relationship among the four of them. The diagram will tell.
Signature

Paul

Django Cat - 07 May 2009 10:02 GMT
> > HVS wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> I'm not sure if it's logically possible that there be only one
> relationship among the four of them. The diagram will tell.

Just the one relationship, I think.

DC
--
John Dean - 08 May 2009 01:19 GMT
>> On 07 May 2009, Django Cat wrote
>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> DC

And OED includes these definitions:

7. Used in reference to any objective relation uniting two (or more)
parties, and holding them in a certain connexion.

10. Expressing reciprocal action or relation maintained, by two (or more)
agents towards each other.

  12. Expressing confinement or restriction to two (or more) parties;
especially used of privacy or secrecy in conversation. between ourselves: as
a matter not to be communicated to others.

13. By the joint action of, done by, shared in by, belonging to (two
parties) jointly. (Sometimes said of more than two, when it is desired to
mark the participation of all the parties more defintely than can be done by
among; cf. 19.)

 V. 19. In all senses, between has been, from its earliest appearance,
extended to more than two. In OE. and ME. it was so extended in sense 1, in
which among is now considered better. It is still the only word available to
express the relation of a thing to many surrounding things severally and
individually, among expressing a relation to them collectively and vaguely:
we should not say 'the space lying among the three points,' or 'a treaty
among three powers,' or 'the choice lies among the three candidates in the
select list,' or 'to insert a needle among the closed petals of a flower.'

Signature

John Dean
Oxford

James Hogg - 07 May 2009 08:54 GMT
>My proofreading client has written this in the caption to a diagram:
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>Hmm.  Your thoughts, as always, appreciated.

Show him this passage from the Oxford Guide to English Usage:

"There are no grounds for objection to the use of 'between' to
express relations, actions, movements, etc. involving more than
two parties; 'among' should not be substituted in, e.g., 'Cordial
relations between Britain, Greece, and Turkey.'"

Signature

James

Django Cat - 07 May 2009 09:22 GMT
> > My proofreading client has written this in the caption to a diagram:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> two parties; 'among' should not be substituted in, e.g., 'Cordial
> relations between Britain, Greece, and Turkey.'"

Thanks, I'll certainly paste in those quotes as comments.

DC
--
Jeffrey Turner - 07 May 2009 15:53 GMT
> My proofreading client has written this in the caption to a diagram:
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Hmm.  Your thoughts, as always, appreciated.

Should be "relationships," possibly with a definite article in front.

--Jeff

Signature

The comfort of the wealthy has always
depended upon an abundant supply of
the poor. --Voltaire

Django Cat - 07 May 2009 22:06 GMT
> > My proofreading client has written this in the caption to a diagram:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Should be "relationships," possibly with a definite article in front.

Well no, as Harvey points out, that's down to what the diagram looks
like, and this is a single relationship lnking four partners, not the
relationships from any one partner to each of the other three.

DC
--
Paul Wolff - 07 May 2009 22:40 GMT
>Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>like, and this is a single relationship lnking four partners, not the
>relationships from any one partner to each of the other three.

"And stop calling me Harvey!"

I had been thinking of a menage a quatre (add your own accents, please)
rather like that of Lytton Strachey, Dora Carrington, and Ralph and
Frances Partridge, where the relationships among them must have been
plural. But clearly one can speak of the relationship (singular) between
fluorine, chlorine, bromine and iodine, if it's that kind of
relationship one means.
Signature

Paul

Django Cat - 08 May 2009 07:28 GMT
> > Jeffrey Turner wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> >
> "And stop calling me Harvey!"

Sorry!!!

> I had been thinking of a menage a quatre (add your own accents,
> please) rather like that of Lytton Strachey, Dora Carrington, and
> Ralph and Frances Partridge, where the relationships among them must
> have been plural. But clearly one can speak of the relationship
> (singular) between fluorine, chlorine, bromine and iodine, if it's
> that kind of relationship one means.

That's the sort of relationship here - one type of bond, not many
interconnections.

DC
--
Robin Bignall - 08 May 2009 22:11 GMT
>> > Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>That's the sort of relationship here - one type of bond, not many
>interconnections.

The opposite of a james bond, then.
Signature

Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England

Steve Hayes - 09 May 2009 05:52 GMT
>My proofreading client has written this in the caption to a diagram:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>"Relationship between the four aspects of stakeholder theory"

Quite.

The idea that one can only apply to two things and not more is what Fowler
called a superstition.

As Phythian puts it in his "A concise dictionary of correct English",

"Between expresses the relationship of something to two or more surrounding
things, severally and individually. Among expresses a relationsship to them
collectively and equally. Thus:

You can camp between (not among) the river, the wood and the wall.

You'll have to search among (not between) all those papers to find it."

>I suppose I could weasel out and edit it to:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>DC

Signature

Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

 
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