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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009Into the wrong hands
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= "The owner of an Inverness-shire activity centre has warned that people "could get hurt" if paintball guns stolen from his premises get into the wrong hands." Can someone posit a scenario where stolen guns (or any other stolen weapons) are likely to get into the *right* hands?  SignatureJohn Dean Oxford > http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= > "The owner of an Inverness-shire activity centre has warned that people > "could get hurt" if paintball guns stolen from his premises get into the > wrong hands." > Can someone posit a scenario where stolen guns (or any other stolen weapons) > are likely to get into the *right* hands? Yes, select just about any country in the Mideast, especially a country under Islamic Sharia law. Most thieves over there are literal right handers, at least up to being caught a second time stealing. SignaturePurl Gurl -- This is to the native American poster who I believe to be a woman, but for some reason is gotten up like Groucho Marx: Excuse me? -- Margo Howard, 11/19/2008 John Dean filted: >http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Can someone posit a scenario where stolen guns (or any other stolen weapons) >are likely to get into the *right* hands? A very liberal "Toys for Tots" program?...r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Can someone posit a scenario where stolen guns (or any other stolen weapons) >are likely to get into the *right* hands? It seems they're safe enough while they're still in the burglars' hands. SignatureJames > http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Can someone posit a scenario where stolen guns (or any other stolen > weapons) are likely to get into the *right* hands? Well, there's "wrong" and there's "wrong". Consider "being in the wrong neighborhood". There's a neutral sense of "not the one you intended to be in" and a more sinister sense of "one that's dangerous for you to be in". In this case, arguably the only "right" hands are those of the owner from whom it was stolen, but clearly the intent is to contrast with people who would use the stolen paintball guns (whether the thieves or later purchasers) to safely play paintball with. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |It is a popular delusion that the 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |government wastes vast amounts of Palo Alto, CA 94304 |money through inefficiency and sloth. |Enormous effort and elaborate kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |planning are required to waste this (650)857-7572 |much money | P.J. O'Rourke http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >> http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > people who would use the stolen paintball guns (whether the thieves or > later purchasers) to safely play paintball with. And it can be very unsafe. My daughter's chambers went paintballing, and she got a bruise through her clothes which was horrifying enough to show the thing could cause serious injury. SignatureMike. >>> http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > and she got a bruise through her clothes which was horrifying enough > to show the thing could cause serious injury. What's her "chambers"? Inquiring Leftpondian minds want to know. SignatureSkitt (AmE) > >>>http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > What's her "chambers"? Inquiring Leftpondian minds want to know. Just as a speculation: my freshman-year roommate occasionally addressed me as "rooms". -- Jerry Friedman >>>>> http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= >>>>> "The owner of an Inverness-shire activity centre has warned that >>>>> people "could get hurt" if paintball guns stolen from his >>>>> premises get into the wrong hands." [...] >>> And it can be very unsafe. My daughter's chambers went >>> paintballing, and she got a bruise through her clothes which was >>> horrifying enough to show the thing could cause serious injury. >> What's her "chambers"? Inquiring Leftpondian minds want to know. > Just as a speculation: my freshman-year roommate occasionally > addressed me as "rooms". Where lawyers go when they're not in bars. At. >>>> http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >What's her "chambers"? Inquiring Leftpondian minds want to know. Physically: http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/chamber 3 (chambers) Law, Brit. rooms used by a barrister or barristers. But also, as in this case, the group of lawyers who share chambers, aka a "set". An example at random: http://www.falcon-chambers.com/ Falcon Chambers is a set of thirty-six barristers, comprising nine Queen's Counsel and twenty seven juniors. We have specialist expertise in all aspects of property law, both litigious and advisory, but our expertise also extends into many related fields such as professional negligence, insolvency, competition law and international work. Falcon Chambers is widely regarded as the leading set in England and Wales for property litigation, commercial property and landlord and tenant law. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>>> http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/816691?UserKey= >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Wales for property litigation, commercial property and landlord and > tenant law. My understanding is that barristers in chambers are self-employed individuals. Although they act collectively for some purposes and accept the leadership of senior members they are not in a firm or partnership. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) [...]>> >> But also, as in this case, the group of lawyers who share chambers, >> aka a "set". [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > accept the leadership of senior members they are not in a firm or > partnership. That's covered it. SignatureMike. >My understanding is that barristers in chambers are self-employed >individuals. Although they act collectively for some purposes and accept >the leadership of senior members they are not in a firm or partnership. if they are neither a firm (company?) nor a partnership, by what legal personality do they act collectively? There must be some sort of legal structure by which they operate. (I suppose 'unincorporated association', or whatever the E&W equivalent is, would do, but I would expect a lawyer to want to formalize that sort of thing. Big law firms in the U.S. are limited-liability partnerships (LLPs) or professional corporations (PCs). Likewise accounting firms, at least historically.) -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >>My understanding is that barristers in chambers are self-employed >>individuals. Although they act collectively for some purposes and accept >>the leadership of senior members they are not in a firm or partnership. > >if they are neither a firm (company?) nor a partnership, by what legal >personality do they act collectively? They don't. >There must be some sort of >legal structure by which they operate. There isn't. The essential requirement is that a barrister takes complete personal responsibility for his work, or at least for certain categories of work, including appearing in court; he may not be anybody's employee or partner. A barrister may be employed by a company or other organisation to give legal advice, but such an "employed barrister" is not in practice, and cannot appear in court. >(I suppose 'unincorporated >association', or whatever the E&W equivalent is, would do, but I would >expect a lawyer to want to formalize that sort of thing. Big law >firms in the U.S. are limited-liability partnerships (LLPs) or >professional corporations (PCs). Likewise accounting firms, at least >historically.) Also UK solicitors, but not barristers. The organistion and running of a barristers' chambers is in the hands of a clerk (or, sometimes, several clerks). They have a separate contract with each member of chambers, entitling them to a percentage of that member's fees. I'm not sure what the position of typists and suchlike is, but I think they are probably employed by the clerk. The chambers as such is not a legal entity. (I think the word "chambers" in this context should be treated as singular). SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" >>>My understanding is that barristers in chambers are self-employed >>>individuals. Although they act collectively for some purposes and accept [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >chambers as such is not a legal entity. (I think the word "chambers" >in this context should be treated as singular). It crossed my mind that there might be a legal entity responsible for owning or renting the property in which the barristers operate and reponsible for employing the law clerks, typists, etc. Googling found this job advert: http://jobs.trovit.co.uk/jobs/goldsmith-chambers JUNIOR BILLING CLERK City London Company: Goldsmith Chambers Salary: £19k-£21k Opportunity to work in Barristers Chambers Goldsmith Chambers (Services) ltd, which provides... professional services to a substantial set of over 60 barristers established at Goldsmith Building, Temple for... team will be to ensure that all work in progress and all completed work of Members of Chambers is... please contact the Chambers Administrator, Dalila Dhuny. To apply for this job please use the Apply Now Contract: Permanent Full wording at: http://www.redgoldfish.co.uk/jsviewjob.asp?jid=242456 I'd guess that senior barristers in the set are directors of the ltd company. Just a bit of context which is given in AUE from time-to-time but is easily forgotten by those familiar with different arrangements: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrister A barrister is a lawyer found in many common law jurisdictions that employ a split profession (as opposed to a fused profession) in relation to legal representation. In split professions, the other types of lawyers are mainly solicitors. Solicitors have more direct contact with the clients, whereas barristers often only become involved in a case once advocacy before a court is needed by the client. Barristers are also engaged by solicitors to provide specialist advice on points of law. Barristers are rarely instructed by clients directly (although this occurs frequently in tax matters). Instead, the client's solicitors will instruct a barrister on behalf of the client when appropriate. If a client has a legal problem she will employ a solicitor. If the matter goes to a lower court the solicitor can represent the client in court. If the case goes to a higher court the solicitor will need to employ the services of a barrister. Solicitors do not have a right of audience in higher courts (except for specially qualified Solicitor Advocates). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solicitor_advocate Usual WikiCaveats apply. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) |
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