Donne: The Damp

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

Marius Hancu - 14 May 2009 08:02 GMT

Hello:

-----
Kill me as woman! Let me die
As a mere man; do you but try
Your passive valour, and you shall find then,
Naked you have odds enough of any man.

THE DAMP.
by John Donne (p. 111)
http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/damp.php
------

I wonder if
"Kill me as woman!"
means
"kill me as the women do to men, by terminating them sexually?"

The critical edition says:
"Let me die": climax sexually; refers to the belief that sexual emission
shortens the length of life.

Signature

Thanks.
Marius Hancu

Reply to this Message

Peter Duncanson (BrE) - 14 May 2009 12:54 GMT

>Hello:
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>"Let me die": climax sexually; refers to the belief that sexual emission
> shortens the length of life.

The OED says:

die, v

I.7.d. To experience a sexual orgasm. (Most common as a poetical
metaphor in the late 16th and 17th cent.)

The most recent two quotes are:

1961 R. AMATO in Landfall Sept. 200 You're nice, though. You make me
die every time.

1974 J. DENVER Annie's Song (sheet-music) 4 Come let me love you...
Let me die in your arms.

I'm not sure about the comment you quote "belief that sexual emission
shortens the length of life". That surely applies only to men. I would
have guessed that "die" refers to the change from the enhanced "life" of
sexual excitement to the comparative "death" of the post-climax state.

ICBW.

Signature

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Reply to this Message

Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 14 May 2009 15:39 GMT

On May 14, 7:54 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net>
wrote:

> >-----
> >Kill me as woman! Let me die
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> I.7.d. To experience a sexual orgasm. (Most common as a poetical
> metaphor in the late 16th and 17th cent.)

Very interesting.

> The most recent two quotes are:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> 1974 J. DENVER Annie's Song (sheet-music) 4 Come let me love you...
> Let me die in your arms.

I need to start reading these lyrics in a more explicit way:-)

> I'm not sure about the comment you quote "belief that sexual emission
> shortens the length of life".

Seems to have been vehiculated in Donne's time.

> That surely applies only to men. I would
> have guessed that "die" refers to the change from the enhanced "life" of
> sexual excitement to the comparative "death" of the post-climax state.

Thank you.
Marius Hancu

Reply to this Message

CDB - 14 May 2009 13:02 GMT

> -----
> Kill me as woman! Let me die
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/damp.php
> ------

> I wonder if
> "Kill me as woman!" means
> "kill me as the women do to men, by terminating them sexually?"

No doubt that too. The primary meaning would be that she should kill
him in single combat, without the help of their respective giants and
witches.

> The critical edition says:
> "Let me die": climax sexually; refers to the belief that sexual
> emission shortens the length of life.

Reply to this Message

Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 14 May 2009 15:44 GMT

> > Kill me as woman!

> The primary meaning would be that she should kill
> him in single combat, without the help of their respective giants and
> witches.

Thus, "be a man!"-)

Thanks, I neglected that side.
Marius Hancu

Reply to this Message

CDB - 14 May 2009 15:50 GMT

>>> Kill me as woman!

>> The primary meaning would be that she should kill
>> him in single combat, without the help of their respective giants
>> and witches.

> Thus, "be a man!"-)

"Man up, girl." I heard or saw that somewhere recently. Maybe more
than once.

Reply to this Message

Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 14 May 2009 19:07 GMT

> >>> Kill me as woman!
> >> The primary meaning would be that she should kill
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> "Man up, girl." I heard or saw that somewhere recently. Maybe more
> than once.

Right, right.

Marius Hancu

Reply to this Message

Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009

Donne: The Damp