Donne: Negative Love

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

Marius Hancu - 15 May 2009 12:30 GMT

Hello:

"For may I miss, whene'er I crave,
If I know yet what I would have."

would this mean:

"For let me miss, whenever I crave, if I happen to know what's the
potential reward for the risk taken"

?

----
NEGATIVE LOVE.
by John Donne

I NEVER stoop'd so low, as they
Which on an eye, cheek, lip, can prey ;
Seldom to them which soar no higher
Than virtue, or the mind to admire.
For sense and understanding may
Know what gives fuel to their fire ;
My love, though silly, is more brave ;
For may I miss, whene'er I crave,
If I know yet what I would have.

[...]

http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/negative.php
------

--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu

Reply to this Message

CDB - 15 May 2009 14:01 GMT

> "For may I miss, whene'er I crave,
> If I know yet what I would have."

> would this mean:

> "For let me miss, whenever I crave, if I happen to know what's the
> potential reward for the risk taken"

I think it's just an inversion of "I may miss". His love is so far
above that of those who are attracted to physical features or
understandable virtues that it properly cannot be known, and if he
knows what he seeks he may miss it. Very zen.

> ----
> NEGATIVE LOVE.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> For may I miss, whene'er I crave,
> If I know yet what I would have.

> [...]

> http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/negative.php
> ------

Reply to this Message

Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 15 May 2009 15:53 GMT

> > "For may I miss, whene'er I crave,
> > If I know yet what I would have."

> I think it's just an inversion of "I may miss". His love is so far
> above that of those who are attracted to physical features or
> understandable virtues that it properly cannot be known, and if he
> knows what he seeks he may miss it. Very zen.

Great reading.
Amazing poet.

Thanks.
Marius Hancu

Reply to this Message

Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 16 May 2009 10:56 GMT

[snip]

What would the meaning of "can know"?
----------
If any who deciphers best,
What we know not—ourselves—can know,
Let him teach me that nothing. This
As yet my ease and comfort is,
Though I speed not, I cannot miss.
---------
Is it:
"any who deciphers best can know"
or
"we know not that we can know"
?

BTW, Norton has it:
"What we know not, ourselves, can know"

Thanks.
Marius Hancu

Reply to this Message

John O'Flaherty - 16 May 2009 16:24 GMT

>[snip]
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Is it:
>"any who deciphers best can know"

That, I think -
If any can know what we know not -ourselves-, let him teach me that
nothing.

I don't know whether to interpret "ourselves" as "we ourselves" (who
do not know), or "our selves" as that which we don't know; or both.
But if some decipherer could know our selves, and teach us that, is it
a "nothing" because we are nothing?

>"we know not that we can know"
>?
>
>BTW, Norton has it:
>"What we know not, ourselves, can know"

Signature

John

Reply to this Message

Marius.Hancu@gmail.com - 17 May 2009 16:56 GMT

> >What would the meaning of "can know"?
> >----------
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> If any can know what we know not -ourselves-, let him teach me that
> nothing.

Thank you both.
Marius Hancu

Reply to this Message

CDB - 17 May 2009 16:39 GMT

> What would the meaning of "can know"?
> ----------
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> or
> "we know not that we can know" ?

> BTW, Norton has it:
> "What we know not, ourselves, can know"

With either punctuation, I think it must be the first, and "ourselves"
must be what we cannot know. I don't see how one could assume "[that
we] can know" in that construction. Another possible interpretation
might be "if we ourselves can know anyone who deciphers best what we
don't know ...", but I'm not suggesting that it's the right one.

There is a lot of punning on "know" and "no". Teach me that nothing,
no thing, know thing.

Reply to this Message

Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009

Donne: Negative Love