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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009Donne: Love's Diet
Hello: ----- TO what a cumbersome unwieldiness And burdenous corpulence my love had grown, But that I did, to make it less, And keep it in proportion, Give it a diet, made it feed upon That which love worst endures, discretion.[2] [...] Thus I reclaim'd my buzzard love, to fly At what, and when, and how, and where I choose. Now negligent of sports I lie, And now, as other falconers use, I spring [8] a mistress, swear, write, sigh, and weep ; And the game kill'd, or lost, go talk or sleep. LOVE'S DIET. by John Donne (p. 104) http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/donne/diet.php ------ [2] Norton critical edition: i.e. he has reduced his love by being discreet. [8] Norton: Start or flush. Questions: 1) What "that" in "But that" refers to? I think it's the whole: "Give it a diet, made it feed upon That which love worst endures, discretion." 2) "I spring a mistress" sounds, as much in Donne, unusually modern. My reading is "I pop up/produce/elicit a mistress, as a fake game/target, so the buzzard of love would have what to prey on; a fake game, as a mistress is only a poor replica of love." How about it?  SignatureThanks. Marius Hancu >Hello: > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >"Give it a diet, made it feed upon >That which love worst endures, discretion." Yes. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) On May 16, 6:56 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: > Yes. Thank you both. Marius Hancu On May 16, 6:56 am, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote: [snip] Thanks. Now, in: ----------- If he wrung from me a tear, I brined it so With scorn and shame, that him it nourish'd not ; If he suck'd hers, I let him know 'Twas not a tear which he had got ; His drink was counterfeit, as was his meat ; For eyes, which roll towards all, weep not, but sweat. ----------- in the last verse, I think the idea of eyes rolling towards someone, and not up, is rare, isn't it? It creates an analogy with billiards:-) Thanks. Marius Hancu On May 16, 7:58 am, Marius.Ha...@gmail.com wrote: > Now, in: > ----------- [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > It creates an analogy with billiards:-) How about the above? >On May 16, 7:58 am, Marius.Ha...@gmail.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >How about the above? The billiards suggestion is a little worrying. It suggests that the eyeballs have left their sockets and are rolling around. I'm uncertain about the meaning of "For eyes, which roll towards all,...". I wonder whether this means that he has a "wandering or roving eye", that is, that he is continually observing other women even when he is with one. His eyes would be moving from side to side rather than up and down. Examples: http://dating1.sky.com/ask-the-expert/does_a_wandering_eye_mean_a_wandering_heart/ Does a wandering eye mean a wandering heart? Whenever I am out with my partner I keep seeing him check out other women. It really bugs me and we keep arguing about it because it makes me feel insecure. Am I wrong in getting angry? .... http://www.handbag.com/relationships/Relationships-men%27s-roving-eye/v1 The Roving Male Eye What should you do if your man just can't stop staring at other women? .... Men will always check out other women just as women will always check out other men. However, the difference is that we are slightly more subtle about it, and don't sit there obviously gawking with our tongues practically hanging out. .... SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> On May 16, 7:58 am, Marius.Ha...@gmail.com wrote: >>> Now, in: >>> ----------- [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>> I think the idea of eyes rolling towards someone, and not up, is >>> rare, isn't it? >>> It creates an analogy with billiards:-) >> How about the above? > The billiards suggestion is a little worrying. It suggests that the > eyeballs have left their sockets and are rolling around. > I'm uncertain about the meaning of "For eyes, which roll towards > all,...". I wonder whether this means that he has a "wandering or > roving eye", that is, that he is continually observing other women > even when he is with one. His eyes would be moving from side to > side rather than up and down. > Examples: > http://dating1.sky.com/ask-the-expert/does_a_wandering_eye_mean_a_wandering_heart/ > Does a wandering eye mean a wandering heart? > Whenever I am out with my partner I keep seeing him check out > other women. It really bugs me and we keep arguing about it > because it makes me feel insecure. Am I wrong in getting angry? > .... > http://www.handbag.com/relationships/Relationships-men%27s-roving-eye/v1 > The Roving Male Eye > What should you do if your man just can't stop staring at other > women? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > slightly more subtle about it, and don't sit there obviously > gawking with our tongues practically hanging out. I agree about the meaning of the phrase, but I think Donne is applying it to his love-object, not himself. His rebel affections may think they're being nourished with her tears, but he tells them that what they're drinking can only be sweat from her strenuously roving eye. > .... > ----- > TO what a cumbersome unwieldiness [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > "Give it a diet, made it feed upon > That which love worst endures, discretion." In the time of Shakespeare and Donne BUT THAT was often written where we today write EXCEPT. > 2) "I spring a mistress" > sounds, as much in Donne, unusually modern. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > buzzard of love would have what to prey on; a fake game, as a mistress > is only a poor replica of love." In 1600 SPRING often meant TRAP (verb or noun.) SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) > ----- > TO what a cumbersome unwieldiness [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Give it a diet, made it feed upon > That which love worst endures, discretion.[2] > [...] > Thus I reclaim'd my buzzard love, to fly > At what, and when, and how, and where I choose. > Now negligent of sports I lie, > And now, as other falconers use, > I spring [8] a mistress, swear, write, sigh, and weep ; > And the game kill'd, or lost, go talk or sleep. > LOVE'S DIET. > by John Donne (p. 104) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Questions: > 1) What "that" in "But that" refers to? > I think it's the whole: > > "Give it a diet, made it feed upon > That which love worst endures, discretion." The first sentence could be paraphrased, "To what ... corpulence my love would have grown, except that I ... gave it a diet ..."; almost "... if I had not given it a diet ...". > 2) "I spring a mistress" > sounds, as much in Donne, unusually modern. > My reading is > "I pop up/produce/elicit a mistress, as a fake game/target, so the > buzzard of love would have what to prey on; a fake game, as a > mistress is only a poor replica of love." It's falconry, eh? "To spring", as the note says, is to drive up from concealment. I take the poem to mean that he has starved his love into obedience. It now hunts at his will, but this control has made the hunt seem a trivial pastime to him. I don't take the accusations of falseness in his mistress to be true, necessarily; they may be part of the starvation diet that has tamed the raptor, love. I'm not so fond of the other note. "Discretion" seems to me to mean something between an attitude of cautious mistrust and a judgemental approach: there may be both "discreet" and "discrete" in there. But it also reinforces the theme of control: his love will fly at his discretion. > > Thus I reclaim'd my buzzard love, to fly > > At what, and when, and how, and where I choose. > > Now negligent of sports I lie, > > And now, as other falconers use, > > I spring [8] a mistress, swear, write, sigh, and weep ; > > And the game kill'd, or lost, go talk or sleep. > It's falconry, eh? "To spring", as the note says, is to drive up from > concealment. I take the poem to mean that he has starved his love > into obedience. It now hunts at his will, but this control has made > the hunt seem a trivial pastime to him. Right. > I don't take the accusations > of falseness in his mistress to be true, necessarily I have the same feeling. Thanks. Marius Hancu |
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