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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009Number one.
I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for 15 years in Palm Beach, Florida. He is not a native AmE speaker but he does speak very decent English, and that's for sure. I wanted to show off a bit with my knowledge of slang so going to the restroom for a while I said more or less what I had found in the online Urban Dictionary of Slang: "This will be quick, I just gotta take a number one" When I came out of the restroom he asked me if I had really taken "it" with me. He laughed at my statement of "taking" it and considered it incorrect. He claims that it should go like "I just gotta go number one"?! Now, I am totally confused... 1. Can you please judge which version is correct? 2. Is that expression kind of region specific and can it be possibly rephrased differently in various parts of US? 3. Is it actually rude or would you consider it rather innocent? 4. Can it be used as a kind of baby talk as communicating with a kid? Thanks in advance for your help. Regards,  SignatureRicardo > I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for > 15 years in Palm Beach, Florida. He is not a native AmE speaker but [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > 4. Can it be used as a kind of baby talk as communicating with a kid? > Thanks in advance for your help. Regards, To "go number one" is the idiom. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/go+number+one SignatureSkitt (AmE) >> I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for >> 15 years in Palm Beach, Florida. He is not a native AmE speaker but [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > To "go number one" is the idiom. > http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/go+number+one Thanks for the link Skitt. Looks reliable. Not to mention your invaluable opinion of the native speaker. Very good. Regards, SignatureRicardo >>> I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for >>> 15 years in Palm Beach, Florida. He is not a native AmE speaker but [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > invaluable opinion of the native speaker. Very good. > Regards, Oh, I'm not a native speaker, but I do have sixty years of AmE experience. SignatureSkitt (AmE) AUE's token Latvian >I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for 15 years >in Palm Beach, Florida. He is not a native AmE speaker but he does speak [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >totally confused... >1. Can you please judge which version is correct? Number 1 is to urinate. Number 2 is to defecate. You can say "I'm gonna take a piss" or "take a leak", but not "take a number one". You can also say "I gotta go for a...". Same meaning. I have no idea who makes up the rules, but they seem to be in place. >2. Is that expression kind of region specific and can it be possibly >rephrased differently in various parts of US? As far as I know, the numbering system is only used for school children. I've never heard an adult who wasn't being deliberately silly use it. >3. Is it actually rude or would you consider it rather innocent? Not to offend you, but it's a rather silly thing for an adult to say. You can say that you need to use the toilet, go to the bathroom, or even use the facilities. If you'd like to use an informal and function-specific term, use pee, piss, whiz, leak, or "bleed the lizard" (or the dozens of other slang terms). Use adult terms. >4. Can it be used as a kind of baby talk as communicating with a kid? If you are a primary school teacher. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony cooper filted: >>"This will be quick, I just gotta take a number one" >>When I came out of the restroom he asked me if I had really taken "it" with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >can also say "I gotta go for a...". Same meaning. I have no idea who >makes up the rules, but they seem to be in place. What planet are you from?... Most common verb for such things is to "take" a leak/pee/piss/whiz/number one/tinkle/etc..."go" is a distant second..."have", "make" and "do" exist but are infrequently used....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > tony cooper filted: >>> "This will be quick, I just gotta take a number one" >>> When I came out of the restroom he asked me if I had really taken [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > leak/pee/piss/whiz/number one/tinkle/etc..."go" is a distant > second..."have", "make" and "do" exist but are infrequently used....r That is certainly not my experience. "Take" can go with "a leak", "a piss", or "a whizz", but not with "a number one", or "a tinkle". SignatureSkitt (AmE), he of the planet Earth >> tony cooper filted: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > That is certainly not my experience. "Take" can go with "a leak", "a > piss", or "a whizz", but not with "a number one", or "a tinkle". Also: The above "take" uses are common among guys/men, but not among girls/women. There are probably exceptions among young women/girls, but that's just a guess. As for older women, "take" is for "naps." Older now, having recently hit "66," Maria conlon > tony cooper filted: >>> "This will be quick, I just gotta take a number one" [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > one/tinkle/etc..."go" is a distant second..."have", "make" and "do" > exist but are infrequently used....r Oops! That's interesting. So there is a possibility to say it with "take"?! Can you confirm that the proper form of the expression is "to take a number one"? (I mean specifically if the "a" is necessary there?) Below are the two links that made me think it was correct: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090304105429AAGFOYX http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=number+1 Thanks for your input. Maybe there is a region specificity for this thing and that's why you and Tony have different opinions? My friend, supporting Tony's version was also from Florida... Regards, SignatureRicardo >> tony cooper filted: >>>> "This will be quick, I just gotta take a number one" [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >Tony's version was also from Florida... >Regards, I think the region is the whole US. John Ciardi talked about this and said it started in the New York schools. The child held up one finger to indicate he needed to urinate or two fingers if he needed to take a dump. Supposedly, this let the teacher know how long to expect the child to be absent from the class. This practice goes back to the beginning of the last century. The use of "one" and "two" has managed to migrate throughout the country. >>> tony cooper filted: >>>>> "This will be quick, I just gotta take a number one" [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >This practice goes back to the beginning of the last century. The use of >"one" and "two" has managed to migrate throughout the country. Indeed, much further, if it started in the US at all. My family used it when I was a small child in the north of England sixty years ago, as did other children we knew. SignatureDon Aitken Mail to the From: address is not read. To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com" [...] >> I think the region is the whole US. John Ciardi talked about this and >> said it started in the New York schools. The child held up one >> finger to indicate he needed to urinate or two fingers if he needed >> to take a dump. Supposedly, this let the teacher know how long to >> expect the child to be absent from the class. Is this proposed as fact or as speculation? Sounds to me like one of "those" stories. >> This practice goes back to the beginning of the last century. The >> use of "one" and "two" has managed to migrate throughout the country. > > Indeed, much further, if it started in the US at all. My family used > it when I was a small child in the north of England sixty years ago, > as did other children we knew. Prince Harry used "number two" when discussing the arrangements in the field in Afghanistan. SignatureMike. >[...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Is this proposed as fact or as speculation? Sounds to me like one of >"those" stories. The fact that Ciardi write about this in one of his dictionaries gives it greater than urban legend status in my view. >tony cooper filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >one/tinkle/etc..."go" is a distant second..."have", "make" and "do" exist but >are infrequently used....r You don't say "I gotta go for a leak" as a means of excusing yourself from the table? It could be "I gotta go take a leak". Of course, if you *ever* use "tinkle" I wouldn't put anything past you. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > Of course, if > you *ever* use "tinkle" I wouldn't put anything past you. Maybe he spends a lot of time with seven-year-olds. --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire > tony cooper filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Most common verb for such things is to "take" a > leak/pee/piss/whiz/number one/tinkle/etc Most common unless you are from anywhere on this planet outside North America. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >> I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for 15 >> years in Palm Beach, Florida. He is not a native AmE speaker but he [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> 4. Can it be used as a kind of baby talk as communicating with a kid? > If you are a primary school teacher. Thanks a lot Tony. Looks like I made a jerk of myself :))) Well, not the first time and definitely not the last time... Thanks a lot for educating me! :) Kindest regards, SignatureRicardo >>> I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for 15 >>> years in Palm Beach, Florida. He is not a native AmE speaker but he [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >Thanks a lot Tony. Looks like I made a jerk of myself :))) No, you didn't make a jerk of yourself. As a non-native speaker, you get a lot of slack from most Americans when you are trying use idioms. You'd only be a jerk about it if you insisted that you were right because you read it in the Urban Dictionary. SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >> Uzytkownik "tony cooper" [...] >>> Not to offend you, but it's a rather silly thing for an adult to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > idioms. You'd only be a jerk about it if you insisted that you were > right because you read it in the Urban Dictionary. Though I'm sure Ricardo knows already, let's be absolutely clear about this: it's only among your most familiar friends or friendly family that you might say /why/ you're leaving them. Ordinarily, if you have to say anything at all you just say "Excuse me". SignatureMike. On 19 May 2009, Mike Lyle wrote >>> Uzytkownik "tony cooper" [...] >>>> Not to offend you, but it's a rather silly thing for an adult [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Ordinarily, if you have to say anything at all you just say > "Excuse me". Or [Arnie voice] "I'll be back"... SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed > On 19 May 2009, Mike Lyle wrote >>>> Uzytkownik "tony cooper" [...] [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> "Excuse me". > Or [Arnie voice] "I'll be back"... Heh, that's a good one! :))) Regards, SignatureRicardo >>2. Is that expression kind of region specific and can it be possibly >>rephrased differently in various parts of US? > > As far as I know, the numbering system is only used for school > children. I've never heard an adult who wasn't being deliberately > silly use it. I've heard it used in hospitals from nurses when talking both to adult and child patients. Yeah, it's silly, but it gets around worrying what terms the patient is comfortable with. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The body was wrapped in duct tape, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |weighted down with concrete blocks Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and a telephone cord was tied |around the neck. Police suspect kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |foul play... (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Evan Kirshenbaum filted: >>>2. Is that expression kind of region specific and can it be possibly >>>rephrased differently in various parts of US? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >and child patients. Yeah, it's silly, but it gets around worrying >what terms the patient is comfortable with. It's been well over forty years, but I can still remember how perplexed I was the first time some kid who had apparently moved from another part of the country announced "I have to make"...I'm fairly certain I hadn't yet encountered the terms "transitive" and "intransitive", but there was clearly something alien about that sentence....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Evan Kirshenbaum filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > "intransitive", but there was clearly something alien about that > sentence....r "Makin' the bed" differs from "make in the bed". Sure does. Pat Durkin filted: >> It's been well over forty years, but I can still remember how >> perplexed I was the first time some kid who had apparently moved from [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >"Makin' the bed" differs from "make in the bed". Sure does. David Gates sang "I'd like to make it with you; I really think that we could make it, girl".... Sorry, Laura....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >Pat Durkin filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Sorry, Laura....r Thank you, O Ron, for giving us this day our daily bread... SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England (and forgive us our trespasses) > Evan Kirshenbaum filted: > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the terms "transitive" and "intransitive", but there was clearly something alien > about that sentence....r BrE usage (also really only used for talking to children) would be "do" a number one/number two. Mike M > Evan Kirshenbaum filted: > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > An optometrist asks whether you see the glass > more full like this?...or like this? It wasn't used in my schools. Or in camp, even by the nurse. I think I first heard it in 1965 (not more than two years earlier) on a Cosby album, when I was almost through high school. Hm. Reviewing all the albums and their track lists, it may be later than that! > It wasn't used in my schools. Or in camp, even by the nurse. I think > I first heard it in 1965 (not more than two years earlier) on a Cosby > album, when I was almost through high school. Hm. Reviewing all the > albums and their track lists, it may be later than that! It wasn't a part of my growing up. Confused me when I was first asked, and I've forgotten when and where - maybe a hospital. --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire >>>2. Is that expression kind of region specific and can it be possibly >>>rephrased differently in various parts of US? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >and child patients. Yeah, it's silly, but it gets around worrying >what terms the patient is comfortable with. And introduces a whole new level of potential discomfort... (I can't begin to explain just how patronised I would feel if some supposedly-qualified medical person were to talk down to me in those sort of baby-terms, nor just how little respect I would have for them afterwards). Cheers - Ian (BrE: Yorks., Hants.) [...] >> I've heard it used in hospitals from nurses when talking both to >> adult and child patients. Yeah, it's silly, but it gets around [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > sort of baby-terms, nor just how little respect I would have for them > afterwards). Agreed, wholeheartedly. But I listened this afternoon to R4's /Case Notes/, and came away with the impression that perhaps medics actually talk like that to one another, in amongst all the technical language. They don't, for a change, seem to have "popped" anything anywhere, but they kept on about "tummies" and "tummy-buttons". So perhaps this vile medical habit of baby-talk isn't so much a catastrophically misguided attempt to reassure you and me as some sort of /self/-reassurance. Equally moronic, of course, but maybe they have their reasons. Patient slap dockie-wockie awound um's cheeky-chopsies! Mmm! Patient feel better now! SignatureMike. >>>> 2. Is that expression kind of region specific and can it be possibly >>>> rephrased differently in various parts of US? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > sort of baby-terms, nor just how little respect I would have for them > afterwards). But you find it okay to be asked whether your bowels have moved? [Quickly checking abdomen to see if things are in the right place] SignatureRob Bannister >>I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for 15 >>years [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > children. I've never heard an adult who wasn't being deliberately > silly use it. Same for "go potty" (generally used by pre-school children). >>3. Is it actually rude or would you consider it rather innocent? > > Not to offend you, but it's a rather silly thing for an adult to say. > You can say that you need to use the toilet, go to the bathroom, or > even use the facilities. I've used all three of those phrases (plus "go to the Ladies Room" or, simply, "excuse me, please), and little else. I don't remember using the numbering system, but probably did during my early school years. > .....If you'd like to use an informal and > function-specific term, use pee, piss, whiz, leak, or "bleed the > lizard" (or the dozens of other slang terms). Use adult terms. Instead of "bleed the lizard," I've heard "drain the python." The second is a bit more suggestive, don't you think? (I first heard it from a guy in a bar. I wasn't impressed.) >>4. Can it be used as a kind of baby talk as communicating with a kid? > > If you are a primary school teacher. Or a parent or grandparent, surely. SignatureMaria Conlon Maria Conlon filted: >> .....If you'd like to use an informal and >> function-specific term, use pee, piss, whiz, leak, or "bleed the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >is a bit more suggestive, don't you think? (I first heard it from a guy >in a bar. I wasn't impressed.) I have, on occasion, announced that I was going to "blow out the ballast tank"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Maria Conlon filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > ballast > tank"....r Would that be Number One or Number Two? (Not that anyone may truly want to know.) SignatureMaria Conlon >>>I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for 15 >>>years [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >simply, "excuse me, please), and little else. I don't remember using the >numbering system, but probably did during my early school years. Not to "powder your nose"? SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony cooper wrote, in part: >> tony cooper wrote,in part, earlier: >>> Not to offend you, but it's a rather silly thing for an adult to >>> say. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Not to "powder your nose"? Ah. I'd forgotten that one. I think I may have used it in the early 1960s. SignatureMaria Conlon, resident of southeast Michigan, near Detroit; native of east Tennessee. > Not to "powder your nose"? Say that in a public place now, and people may think you're off to snort a line of cocaine. Narelle [...] >Instead of "bleed the lizard," I've heard "drain the python." The second >is a bit more suggestive, don't you think? (I first heard it from a guy >in a bar. I wasn't impressed.) [...] He was only attempting some levity. I doubt he was trying to claim it was really cold and scaly. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > [...] >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > He was only attempting some levity. I doubt he was trying to claim it > was really cold and scaly. Maybe you can tell us if "point Percy at the porcelain" is real Australian slang, or just Australian slang as invented by Private Eye. Signatureathel >> [...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Australian slang, or just Australian slang as invented by Private > Eye. There's something less euphemistic about "hit the head", and unusual in that it was used not only in the Navy, but in the Air Force, where the "head" is the "latrine". SignatureFrank ess >> [...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Maybe you can tell us if "point Percy at the porcelain" is real >Australian slang, or just Australian slang as invented by Private Eye. I'm pretty sure it and a few others were written by Humphries and his mates. People do use it now but I'm not old enough to know what was said before Barry McKenzie. SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > [...] >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > He was only attempting some levity. Yes. That's a given. And I'd think we could call such levity "guy humor"* -- the kind of thing boys/men often engage in, especially when consuming alcohol. > I doubt he was trying to claim it was really cold and scaly. Agreed. Size was the point, I think. Anyway, I did laugh. (Or did I just shake my head and roll my eyes? Can't remember.) *Is there a corresponding "girl humor"? SignatureMaria Conlon [full python] > *Is there a corresponding "girl humor"? Why do old maids never fart? Because if a woman wants an a.shole she has to marry one. (From my ex-SIL, who is bitter.) >> [...] >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >*Is there a corresponding "girl humor"? Yes and it has the same effect on males as "guy humor" has on women. We get it but don't find it all that funny. Chick flicks like that Bridget Jones woman and live shows like "Puppetry of the Penis"and this new one "Breast Wishes: An Uplifting Musical" are the sort of thing I mean. Enormously popular with women but they don't work for me. http://www.canberratheatre.org.au/pages/event/performance987.asp SignatureRichard Bollard Canberra Australia To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT. > Instead of "bleed the lizard," I've heard "drain the python." The second > is a bit more suggestive, don't you think? (I first heard it from a guy > in a bar. I wasn't impressed.) "Syphon the python" is more usually heard Rightpondially. So much more poetic. One of a fairly large set that includes "Shake hands with the wife's best friend"/"Shake hands with the unemployed" (depending on relationship circumstances). Mike M Mike Mooney wrote, in <870bd860-5d68-454d-848c-cd5a3c9cfd26@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com> on Wed, 20 May 2009 01:49:08 -0700 (PDT): > > Instead of "bleed the lizard," I've heard "drain the python." The second > > is a bit more suggestive, don't you think? (I first heard it from a guy [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > best friend"/"Shake hands with the unemployed" (depending on > relationship circumstances). "Shed a tear for Nelson" is an RN one that my pa used to use. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE >> Instead of "bleed the lizard," I've heard "drain the python." The >> second [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Syphon the python" is more usually heard Rightpondially. So much more > poetic. I haven't heard that one. Of course, my poetic ear takes points off because "ph" and "th" don't rhyme properly. And then there's the possible Spoonerism Factor,* which could result in "sython the pyphon." But even given my objections, "syphon" may rate higher than "drain" on the male-humor (or bar-humor) scale. > One of a fairly large set that includes "Shake hands with the wife's > best friend"/"Shake hands with the unemployed" (depending on > relationship circumstances). Heard the first, but not the second. Note: I can't think of any comparable versions females use about their own trips to the bathroom. Am I just ignorant or do such versions not exist? *Sometimes known as the Foonerism Spactor. Wondering -- sort of, Maria Conlon >>> Instead of "bleed the lizard," I've heard "drain the python." The second >>> is a bit more suggestive, don't you think? (I first heard it from a guy [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > own trips to the bathroom. Am I just ignorant or do such versions not > exist? Possibly females are so busy talking about clothes, hair and other important stuff that the reason for the communal visit is almost forgotten. Note: except when drinking heavily, boy do not usually go and pee in groups. SignatureRob Bannister >Note: I can't think of any comparable versions females use about their >own trips to the bathroom. Am I just ignorant or do such versions not >exist? I know of no such slang used by women, but I do wonder why the place is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big girl's room" where the stalls are wider? SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida tony cooper filted: >>Note: I can't think of any comparable versions females use about their >>own trips to the bathroom. Am I just ignorant or do such versions not [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big girl's room" >where the stalls are wider? In case anyone's uncertain about the matter, it's the room that's little, not the girl.... An episode of M*A*S*H had a visiting officer asking directions to "the little general's room"...in deliberate imitation of that, I've tried "the little programmer's room" with some success....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > tony cooper filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > In case anyone's uncertain about the matter, it's the room that's > little, not the girl.... In Indonesian, the standard term for a toilet is "little room" (=kamar kecil). Even when it is a big one with fish: http://www.flickr.com/photos/yonphotography/3487331341/ SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>Note: I can't think of any comparable versions females use about >>their own trips to the bathroom. Am I just ignorant or do such [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big girl's room" > where the stalls are wider? I actually suspect that the popularity of "little girls' room" [note apostrophe placement] is at least somewhat due to discomfort with the implication of "ladies' room". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |It's gotten to the point where the 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |only place you can get work done is Palo Alto, CA 94304 |at home, because no one bugs you, |and the best place to entertain kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |yourself is at work, because the (650)857-7572 |Internet connections are faster. | Scott Adams http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>> Note: I can't think of any comparable versions females use about >>> their own trips to the bathroom. Am I just ignorant or do such [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > apostrophe placement] is at least somewhat due to discomfort with the > implication of "ladies' room". I can't think of any such discomfort in BrE. What's the implication? SignatureDavid the Omrud filted: >> I actually suspect that the popularity of "little girls' room" [note >> apostrophe placement] is at least somewhat due to discomfort with the >> implication of "ladies' room". > >I can't think of any such discomfort in BrE. What's the implication? Perhaps it's something to do with the entry from one of those many lists of factoids: "Winston Churchill was born in a ladies' room during a dance"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > the Omrud filted: >>> I actually suspect that the popularity of "little girls' room" [note [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Perhaps it's something to do with the entry from one of those many lists of > factoids: "Winston Churchill was born in a ladies' room during a dance"....r But that's exactly what the "little girls' room" is. It can't be uncomfortable to imply that the "toilet" contains toilets. SignatureDavid On 21 May 2009, the Omrud wrote >> the Omrud filted: >>>> I actually suspect that the popularity of "little girls' [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > But that's exactly what the "little girls' room" is. It can't > be uncomfortable to imply that the "toilet" contains toilets. That's logical, but logic doesn't work with terms for this room. I recall hearing a grande dame type pooh-poohing the AmE usage of "bathroom" on the basis that one doesn't go there to bathe -- and then speaking of the "lavatory" as if that, somehow, referred to something other than than washing. Offhand, I can't immediately think of any formal-register/polite- society term which actually refers to the bodily function -- toilet/lavatory/bathroom/loo/WC/closet/outhouse/men's/women's/gents /ladies/restroom/little boys'/little girls' -- all carefully avoid referring to sh.tting or pissing. (Accurate informal terms, of course, abound.) SignatureCheers, Harvey CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed HVS filted: >I recall hearing a grande dame type pooh-poohing the AmE usage of >"bathroom" on the basis that one doesn't go there to bathe -- and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >(Accurate informal terms, of course, abound.) The "necessary" is a step in the right direction.... ("Pooh-poohing" the usage, you say?)...r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >On 21 May 2009, the Omrud wrote > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >(Accurate informal terms, of course, abound.) Another one that avoids the function is "the facilities" as in "I'm just going to visit the facilities". Rightpondian customers of an American company were invited to tour the company's computer factory in Ireland. There was childlike amusement among the customers when they discovered that this was officially described as a "facility visit". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >Rightpondian customers of an American company were invited to tour the >company's computer factory in Ireland. There was childlike amusement >among the customers when they discovered that this was officially >described as a "facility visit". That group would roar, then, if asked to visit Poughkeepsies' "water treatment facility". It supplies the public with drinking water, but sewage treatment plants are also called "water treatment facilities". http://www.pokwater.com/new/ SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida > On Fri, 22 May 2009 12:16:15 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > treatment facility". It supplies the public with drinking water, but > sewage treatment plants are also called "water treatment facilities". All the water in this establishment has been passed by the management. Mike M >> the Omrud filted: >>>> I actually suspect that the popularity of "little girls' room" [note [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > But that's exactly what the "little girls' room" is. It can't be > uncomfortable to imply that the "toilet" contains toilets. AFAIR from visits to Blenheim the room in which he was born was not actually a toilet but a small retiring room. And I'm fairly sure it was a ball, not a dance. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> Whose moving finger wrote, and cheerfully Clicked "Send" to wing the words below to me, Is powerless to cancel half a line: 'Tis stored on Google sempiternally. >>> the Omrud filted: >>>>> I actually suspect that the popularity of "little girls' room" [note [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >actually a toilet but a small retiring room. And I'm fairly sure it was >a ball, not a dance. According to Snopes, that part of the story could be due to a reinterpretation of the word "cloakroom": http://www.snopes.com/history/world/churchill.asp It's curious that cloakroom could become a British euphemism for lavatory when anyone with an education should find it embarrassingly close to the word "cloaca". "Every man to his taste", or as they say in French, "tout à l'égout". SignatureJames >LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> >>>> the Omrud filted: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >for lavatory when anyone with an education should find it >embarrassingly close to the word "cloaca". I am proud to say that I have stood in the forum romanum and peeped into the cloaca maxima. And I'd do it again, if someone would stump up the fare. SignaturePaul >>LFS <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> >>>>> the Omrud filted: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >I am proud to say that I have stood in the forum romanum and peeped into >the cloaca maxima. I had to read that twice to make sure there were two p's in peeped. >And I'd do it again, if someone would stump up the fare. The word "stump" made me feel slightly uncomfortable in this context. SignatureJames >Paul Wolff <bounceme@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >I had to read that twice to make sure there were >two p's in peeped. Age demands one more p just to make sure. >>And I'd do it again, if someone would stump up the fare. > >The word "stump" made me feel slightly uncomfortable >in this context. Keep stum without a p, if it helps. SignaturePaul >>> the Omrud filted: >>>>> I actually suspect that the popularity of "little girls' room" [note [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > actually a toilet but a small retiring room. And I'm fairly sure it was > a ball, not a dance. The original does imply that the baby just dropped out while the lady was enjoying a dance in the toilets. Of course, having a ball in the ladies' would be different. SignatureRob Bannister >>> I know of no such slang used by women, but I do wonder why the >>> place is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big girl's >>> room" where the stalls are wider? >> I actually suspect that the popularity of "little girls' room" >> [note apostrophe placement] is at least somewhat due to discomfort >> with the implication of "ladies' room". > > I can't think of any such discomfort in BrE. What's the implication? That they are expected to be dainty and frail "ladies" rather than "women". In 1977, Marilyn French wrote a novel called _The Women's Room_, whose cover has "The Ladies' Room" printed on it with a picture of a hand writing "Women's" over "Ladies'" in magic marker. I recall many discussion about the asymmetry between "men's room" and "ladies' room". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The purpose of writing is to inflate 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and inhibit clarity. With a little |practice, writing can be an kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |intimidating and impenetrable fog! (650)857-7572 | Calvin http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>> I know of no such slang used by women, but I do wonder why the >>>> place is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big girl's [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > many discussion about the asymmetry between "men's room" and "ladies' > room". In the UK, you would be more likely to see "Ladies" and "Gentlemen" on the doors of the facilities. But, assuming that this was the perceived problem with asking for the "Ladies Room", I can't see it being alleviated by asking for the "little girls room". Fran >>>>> I know of no such slang used by women, but I do wonder why the >>>>> place is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>>> [note apostrophe placement] is at least somewhat due to >>>> discomfort with the implication of "ladies' room". >>> I can't think of any such discomfort in BrE. What's the implication? >> That they are expected to be dainty and frail "ladies" rather than >> "women". In 1977, Marilyn French wrote a novel called _The Women's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > In the UK, you would be more likely to see "Ladies" and "Gentlemen" > on the doors of the facilities. That would be a difference, especially if they call the one for men the "gentlemen's room". I've heard it called the "gents'", but it's not common here. > But, assuming that this was the perceived problem with asking for > the "Ladies Room", I can't see it being alleviated by asking for the > "little girls room". With "little girls' room", it's clear that the speaker is joking. It also harkens back to elementary schools and high schools, where the rooms for students were marked with the egalitarian "boys" and "girls" and were called the "boys' room" and the "girls' room". (The "little" infantilizes it even farther, of course.) SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |As the judge remarked the day that 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | he acquitted my Aunt Hortense, Palo Alto, CA 94304 |To be smut |It must be ut- kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |Terly without redeeming social (650)857-7572 | importance. | Tom Lehrer http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>>>> I know of no such slang used by women, but I do wonder why the >>>>>> place is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > and were called the "boys' room" and the "girls' room". (The "little" > infantilizes it even farther, of course.) Pondial? The word "room" was never used in English schools. It was either the "boys/girls" (not sure whether we pronounced an apostrophe) or the "boys'/girls' toilets" or "bog(s)". SignatureRob Bannister >> With "little girls' room", it's clear that the speaker is joking. >> It also harkens back to elementary schools and high schools, where [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > either the "boys/girls" (not sure whether we pronounced an > apostrophe) or the "boys'/girls' toilets" or "bog(s)". Could be pondial. Did you guys get Brownsville Station's "Smokin' in the Boys Room" (or Mötley Crüe's later version)? We wouldn't have used "toilets", as here those refer just to the fixture rather than the room. (And "bog" is just a marshy area.) Between kids it might have been "boys' john" or "boys' can", and formally it would have been "boys' bathroom" or "boys' restroom", but "boys' room" was acceptable by kids and teachers alike. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |You gotta know when to code, 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | Know when to log out, Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Know when to single step, | Know when you're through. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |You don't write your program (650)857-7572 | When you're sittin' at the term'nal. |There'll be time enough for writin' http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | When you're in the queue. >>>> I know of no such slang used by women, but I do wonder why the >>>> place is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big girl's [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >many discussion about the asymmetry between "men's room" and "ladies' >room". In Britain the labelling used to be "Gentlemen" and Ladies". They were customarily called "the gents" and "the ladies". I think these short forms are still understood as in the questions "Where is the gents?" and "Where is the ladies?". (Apostrophes might be included but I'm not sure that they are customary.) SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net> Whose moving finger wrote, and cheerfully Clicked "Send" to wing the words below to me, Is powerless to cancel half a line: 'Tis stored on Google sempiternally. >>>>> I know of no such slang used by women, but I do wonder why the >>>>> place is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big girl's [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >forms are still understood as in the questions "Where is the gents?" and >"Where is the ladies?". I remember the first time I took my wife to the Republic of Ireland, and she was faced with the choice of going to the "Mná" or the "Fir". Rather than applying her knowledge of Indo-European sound changes, she waited to see someone coming out. SignatureJames > I remember the first time I took my wife to the Republic of > Ireland, and she was faced with the choice of going to the "Mná" > or the "Fir". Rather than applying her knowledge of Indo-European > sound changes, she waited to see someone coming out. I am reminded of the (no doubt false) story of a lecturer in a foreign land. Wanting to use a couple of words of the local language, he watched the lavatories to see which sex used which door and then memorised the words on the doors. He began his speech with "Grobs and Fundles" (or whatever) and got a huge round of applause. It turned out that he'd started his speech "Lavatories and Urinals". SignatureDavid the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote >> I remember the first time I took my wife to the Republic of >> Ireland, and she was faced with the choice of going to the "Mná" [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >It turned out that he'd started his speech "Lavatories and Urinals". If you can believe the following blog, it was an (unnamed) "English foreign secretary" (evidently from the English Foreign Office and thus before the accession of James VI): http://articlewalla.blogspot.com/2006_08_07_archive.html Good story, even if the source references leave a little to be desired. Which country has signs saying "Lavatories" and "Urinals" on its loo doors? SignatureJames > the Omrud <usenet.omrud@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > desired. Which country has signs saying "Lavatories" and > "Urinals" on its loo doors? No, sorry, I tried it, but Wolfram|Alpha doesn't know the answer. SignatureDavid > "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net> > Whose moving finger wrote, and cheerfully [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > or the "Fir". Rather than applying her knowledge of Indo-European > sound changes, she waited to see someone coming out. No harder than those confusing pictograms they put on some toilet doors. SignatureRob Bannister [...] >> I remember the first time I took my wife to the Republic of >> Ireland, and she was faced with the choice of going to the "Mná" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No harder than those confusing pictograms > they put on some toilet doors. There's nothing confusing about these: http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/toilets.html Signature~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~ Robert Bannister wrote, in <77mbttF1icpr9U6@mid.individual.net> on Fri, 22 May 2009 09:02:53 +0800: > > "Peter Duncanson (BrE)" <mail@peterduncanson.net> > > Whose moving finger wrote, and cheerfully [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > No harder than those confusing pictograms they put on some toilet doors. Or 'Setters' and 'Pointers'. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE BrE filted: >>That they are expected to be dainty and frail "ladies" rather than >>"women". In 1977, Marilyn French wrote a novel called _The Women's [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >(Apostrophes might be included but I'm not sure that they are >customary.) The closing of a Swensen's restaurant some years ago may have done away with the signage, but the appropriate doors were labeled "MEN" and "LADIE'S"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? [...] > done away with the signage, but the appropriate doors were > labeled "MEN" and "LADIE'S"....r One of our local stores labels its facilities "LADIES" and "MENS". Signaturerzed rzed filted: >[...] >> done away with the signage, but the appropriate doors were >> labeled "MEN" and "LADIE'S"....r > >One of our local stores labels its facilities "LADIES" and "MENS". Maybe they should just use a pictorial representation of something associated with each respective sex: http://members.cox.net/dadoctah/images/menswear.jpg Actually, that's supposed to be the origin of the alchemists' glyphs for Mars and Venus: the male symbol shows a spear and shield, and the female a hand-held mirror....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > rzed filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and Venus: the male symbol shows a spear and shield, and the female a hand-held > mirror....r The only way I remember which is which is that the male symbol has a bit sticking up and female one has a funny bit to sit on. SignatureRob Bannister >>>> I know of no such slang used by women, but I do wonder why the >>>> place is always the "little girl's room". Is there a "big girl's [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > many discussion about the asymmetry between "men's room" and "ladies' > room". Ah, see, we have "Ladies" and "Gents". Somebody at my summer camp wrote "Gents" on the door of one of the mens' loos, but that was more about making the point that there were Brits around. SignatureDavid > Not to offend you, but it's a rather silly thing for an adult to say. > You can say that you need to use the toilet, go to the bathroom, or > even use the facilities. If you'd like to use an informal and > function-specific term, use pee, piss, whiz, leak, or "bleed the > lizard" (or the dozens of other slang terms). Use adult terms. "I have to see a man about a horse" is my favorite. --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire >> Not to offend you, but it's a rather silly thing for an adult to say. >> You can say that you need to use the toilet, go to the bathroom, or [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >"I have to see a man about a horse" is my favorite. Interesting - I'd always heard it as "about a dog". One that I heard from time to time from my father and his generation was "I have to go turn my bicycle round". Cheers - Ian (BrE: Yorks., Hants.) >>> Not to offend you, but it's a rather silly thing for an adult to say. >>> You can say that you need to use the toilet, go to the bathroom, or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >Interesting - I'd always heard it as "about a dog". So did I, but it was not particularly related to going to the lav; more a sort of "mind your own business" to an over-inquisitive kid with big ears. >One that I heard from time to time from my father and his generation >was "I have to go turn my bicycle round". > SignatureRobin (BrE) Herts, England > I had a linguistic argument with a friend of mine who has lived for 15 years > in Palm Beach, Florida. He is not a native AmE speaker but he does speak [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > Ricardo The tide is high and I'm movin' on I'm gonna be a number one Num-ber one, Numb-ber one The tide is high and I'm movin' on I'm gonna be a number one Num-ber one, Numb-ber one The tide is high and I'm movin' on I'm gonna be a number one Num-ber one, Numb-ber one The tide is high and I'm movin' on I'm gonna be a number one Num-ber one, Numb-ber one The tide is high and I'm movin' on I'm gonna do a number one Num-ber one, Numb-ber one Now I'm gonna make a number one, number two.. sung to the tune of Debbie Harry and Blondie's 1980 "The Tide is High". I actually use the term sometimes as an adult, but yeah, I do it humorously...Number 1 and 2 are kinda silly for an adult to say.. > Now I'm gonna make a number one, > number two.. > > sung to the tune of Debbie Harry and Blondie's 1980 "The Tide is > High". Or better still the original version by The Paragons. Mike M |
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