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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009Suspicious interest
The shooting reportedly occurred during a group melee, possibly also involving a knife. Police have detained a person of interest http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-beverlycenter19-2009may19,0,1667313.story Is this a new word for "suspect", or a new phrase for "helping the police with their enquiries"?  SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >The shooting reportedly occurred during a group melee, possibly also >involving a knife. Police have detained a person of interest [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Is this a new word for "suspect", or a new phrase for "helping the police with >their enquiries"? He was described as a "person of interest" before he was arrested and began to "help the police with their enquiries". He was referred to as a suspect: About an hour after the shooting, the LAPD issued a bulletin for a 20-year-old man considered a "person of interest" in the shooting. Los Angeles Airport Police officers spotted a man fitting the description in the ticketing lobby of Terminal 1. "The suspect was detained without incident [and] discovered to be armed," said Los Angeles World Airports spokeswoman Nancy Castles. I wonder, was he suspected of a crime or was he suspected of being the person of interest, or both? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >The shooting reportedly occurred during a group melee, possibly also >involving a knife. Police have detained a person of interest [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Is this a new word for "suspect", or a new phrase for "helping the police with >their enquiries"? I see that the term has already been used in the title of at least four novels about murder suspects. SignatureJames > The shooting reportedly occurred during a group melee, possibly also > involving a knife. Police have detained a person of interest > <http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-beverlycenter19-2009may19,0,1667313.story> > Is this a new word for "suspect", or a new phrase for "helping the police > with their enquiries"? The first time I noticed this, it was used to refer to Rep. Gary Condit in the matter of the disappearance of Chandra Levi. There seemed to be nothing else happening in the US in the summer of 2001. By late August remains of Ms. Levi had been found and because of their location a person, already in prison on charges of assaulting two other women in the same vicinity, was occasionally mention as the new person of interest. After September 11 nothing more was heard of the case until March of this year when the second person of interest was charged with killing Ms. Levi. Locally, that is, in Austin, this term seems sometimes to be genuine, as when an unidentified pedestrian is sought because it is believe he witnessed someone being struck by a hit-and-run driver, but if you read it as 'suspect,' you will be right more often than not. "Suspect" generally means someone who has been charged with a crime, or certainly will be, but who is not yet in custody. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com 118 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term. Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't. Lars Eighner wrote (concerning the description "person of interest"):- > Locally, that is, in Austin, this term seems sometimes to be genuine, as > when an unidentified pedestrian is sought because it is believe he > witnessed > someone being struck by a hit-and-run driver, . . . . . . In the UK the more usual and less ambiguous term is "potential witness". Another term that the police use is when they ask somebody to come forward so that he/she can be "eliminated from our enquiries". That is my personal favourite, because of its implied menace if the suspect cannot actually be eliminated. You, 5 ft 10 inches tall, Geordie accent, aged around 45 years, with the tatoo of Britannia on your left shoulder, know whether or not you did it, and we have a good description of you. We also have a DNA sample. Basically, you've had it. We're coming to get you. Prepare for a long time out of circulation. Richard Chambers Leeds UK. On May 19, 10:12 am, "Richard Chambers" <richard.chambers7_NoSp...@ntlworld.net> wrote: > Lars Eighner wrote (concerning the description "person of interest"):- > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Richard Chambers Leeds UK. The U.S. has gone so litigious that the media and the police are very careful to avoid any hint of defamation of character. "Alleged" seems to have fallen out of favor, and "person of interest" has replaced "alleged suspect." (I once heard a report that "an alleged suspect," having been found guilty at trial, was on his way to prison. I promptly phoned the TV station and spoke to the reporter who had said this; she agreed that the conviction made the man no longer "an alleged suspect," but an actual proven miscreant -- thief, murderer, whatever the offense had been.) I still get upset when the reporter, or the victim, says that, after the attack "the gentleman" ran that direction. In our last episode, <0a89de96-86f2-4094-9fca-10fd552ac2ba@o20g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and talented Cece broadcast on alt.usage.english: > The U.S. has gone so litigious that the media and the police are very > careful to avoid any hint of defamation of character. "Alleged" seems > to have fallen out of favor, It is fairly common these days for the "alleged" to be applied to matters not open for question. We have "wanted for questioning in the alleged murder of Mr. Robin." In some cases there is an issue as to whether a murder has actually taken place --- and in Mr. Robin's case, it was an alleged murder --- but when the victim is shot, stabbed repeatedly, and dismembered, it seldom is an "alleged" murder. We also have "alleged shooting death." Well, that could be murder, suicide, or misadventure, but if the guy died of a gunshot wound, there is no alleged about the shooting death. > and "person of interest" has replaced "alleged suspect." Well, that's another one. If he's charged, he is an alleged murder. If the police can be made to admit that he is a suspect, there is no alleged about it. > (I once heard a report that "an alleged suspect," having been found guilty > at trial, was on his way to prison. I promptly phoned the TV station and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > upset when the reporter, or the victim, says that, after the attack "the > gentleman" ran that direction. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com 119 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term. Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't. [ ... ] > It is fairly common these days for the "alleged" to be applied to matters > not open for question. We have "wanted for questioning in the alleged murder > of Mr. Robin." In some cases there is an issue as to whether a murder has > actually taken place --- and in Mr. Robin's case, it was an alleged murder > --- but when the victim is shot, stabbed repeatedly, and dismembered, it > seldom is an "alleged" murder. Seldom, indeed. But lawyers have to allow for all the levels of standard deviation out there to infinity. Perhaps the deceased was initially shot dead by someone else in self-defense -- no murder there. Then a gang of miscreants came along and decided to have some fun with the corpse. No murder there. I'm not sure exactly who would sue whom for what in such a case if, God forbid, "alleged" was omitted, but why take the chance? Thus speak lawyers. > We also have "alleged shooting death." Well, > that could be murder, suicide, or misadventure, but if the guy died of a > gunshot wound, there is no alleged about the shooting death. Are we sure he died of a gunshot wound? Perhaps he suffered a massive fatal stroke a few seconds before the bullet got there, but his autonomic nervous system kept the heart pumping just long enough to push some blood through the bullet-hole. It's not a shooting death. Such things happen all the time, at least on the telly. Doesn't anyone out there watch "CSI This or That"? Murphy's Law prescribes that the million-to-one chance always occurs when no one is ready for it. Except the lawyers, of course. We're so busy preparing for things that will never happen that we forget to protect against the plausible. But don't tell anyone, okay? Wouldn't want word getting around. [ ... ] SignatureBob Lieblich You think I'm kidding, right? > In our last episode, > <0a89de96-86f2-4094-9fca-10fd552ac2ba@o20g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>, the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > is shot, stabbed repeatedly, and dismembered, it seldom is an > "alleged" murder. I don't think I'd want to be in the shoes of the editor who went with "murder" when the jury later ruled that it was manslaughter or justifiable homicide. > We also have "alleged shooting death." Well, that could be murder, > suicide, or misadventure, but if the guy died of a gunshot wound, > there is no alleged about the shooting death. Yes, if you know that the coroner has ruled that the shooting was actually the cause of death, the "alleged" is uncalled for. >> and "person of interest" has replaced "alleged suspect." > > Well, that's another one. If he's charged, he is an alleged murder. > If the police can be made to admit that he is a suspect, there is no > alleged about it. But if all you know at the time you go to press is that the police have said that they are looking for someone because they "want to talk to him", you really have no idea whether they're looking for a suspect, a witness, somebody who might have information about the victim, somebody who might know where a suspect is, or what. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Well, if you can't believe what you 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |read in a comic book, what can you Palo Alto, CA 94304 |believe?! | Bullwinkle J. Moose kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Dick Chambers: > Another term that the police use is when they ask somebody to come > forward so that he/she can be "eliminated from our enquiries". > That is my personal favourite, because of its implied menace if > the suspect cannot actually be eliminated. This reminds me of the way doctors say you should be tested "to rule out" some condition rather being tested "for" that condition. SignatureMark Brader, Toronto "Constrain your data early and often." msb@vex.net -- C. M. Sperberg-McQueen > Dick Chambers: >> Another term that the police use is when they ask somebody to come [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This reminds me of the way doctors say you should be tested "to rule > out" some condition rather being tested "for" that condition. Isn't that what they're often doing, though? "Your symptoms are most likely caused by this common condition, which we'll address by diet and exercise. There's a remote chance, however, that what I'm seeing is caused by this rare disease which, would need to be treated immediately. So we'll do this test to make sure that that's not the problem and then work out what you'll do to get better." I'd say that testing "to rule out" a condition is much *less* menacing than testing "for" in, as it implies that the doctor thinks it's unlikely that you have the condition rather than that it's a real possibility. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The law of supply and demand tells us 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |that when the price of something is Palo Alto, CA 94304 |artificially set below market level, |there will soon be none of that thing kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |left--as you may have noticed the (650)857-7572 |last time you tried to buy something |for nothing. http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | P.J. O'Rourke > Isn't that what they're often doing, though? "Your symptoms are most > likely caused by this common condition, which we'll address by diet > and exercise. There's a remote chance, however, that what I'm seeing > is caused by this rare disease which, would need to be treated > immediately. Comma number five: you were a bit late on your entrance. Let's go back and take it from the top, okay? SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |On a scale of one to ten... 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |it sucked. Palo Alto, CA 94304 kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Dick Chambers: >>> Another term that the police use is when they ask somebody to come >>> forward so that he/she can be "eliminated from our enquiries". >>> That is my personal favourite, because of its implied menace if >>> the suspect cannot actually be eliminated. Mark Brader: >> This reminds me of the way doctors say you should be tested "to rule >> out" some condition rather being tested "for" that condition. Evan Kirshenbaum: > Isn't that what they're often doing, though? "...There's a remote > chance, however, that what I'm seeing is caused by this rare disease[,] > which[] would need to be treated immediately. So we'll do this test..." Well, that's why the test is done first. > "...to make sure that that's not the problem..." Rather, to make sure that if it *is* the problem, we know about it. > I'd say that testing "to rule out" a condition is much *less* menacing > than testing "for" [it]... Spoken from the viewpoint of a non-hypochondriac! "To rule out" is obviously just a euphemism to distract you from the likelihood that you have this *rare disease which needs to be treated immediately*!!!*!*!* SignatureMark Brader, Toronto | "This one isn't close. It's not even close to msb@vex.net | being close." --Adam Beneschan My text in this article is in the public domain. > Spoken from the viewpoint of a non-hypochondriac! "To rule out" is > obviously just a euphemism to distract you from the likelihood that you > have this *rare disease which needs to be treated immediately*!!!*!*!* Not just a eupemism. It's to reduce the nocebo (qv) effect of you thinking you might have it. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu Mark Brader: > > Spoken from the viewpoint of a non-hypochondriac! "To rule out" is > > obviously just a euphemism to distract you from the likelihood that you > > have this *rare disease which needs to be treated immediately*!!!*!*!* Nick Atty: > Not just a eupemism. It's to reduce the nocebo (qv) effect of you thinking > you might have it. Oh yeah? Why did you think I went to the doctor in the first place, *hmmmm*? SignatureMark Brader "You mean he made love to you?" Toronto "Well, he went through all the emotions." msb@vex.net -- EVERY DAY'S A HOLIDAY > The shooting reportedly occurred during a group melee, possibly also > involving a knife. Police have detained a person of interest [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Is this a new word for "suspect", or a new phrase for "helping the > police with their enquiries"? Neither, or both. It means that the person who wrote the piece knows that the police took them in (and, probably, were specifically looking for them), but they don't know if the police think the person is a suspect, a witness, somebody the police have reason to believe has information about a suspect's whereabouts, or what. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |The purpose of writing is to inflate 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and inhibit clarity. With a little |practice, writing can be an kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |intimidating and impenetrable fog! (650)857-7572 | Calvin http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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