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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009Computable knowledge
Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge computable. http://www89.wolframalpha.com/ It seems to work all right for some operations. It gave me the right answer to the question "What do you get if you multiply six by nine?" Distances seem to be more of a problem, however. If you just type in "England to Wales" you get an interesting map and the result 54.7 miles. "England to Scotland" is much further, 3225 miles. Have fun  SignatureJames >Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >computable. > >http://www89.wolframalpha.com/ >It seems to work all right for some operations. It gave me the >right answer to the question "What do you get if you multiply six [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Have fun I tried trhe reverse direction, "Wales to England". That is also 54.7 miles. It says: Assuming Wales (United Kingdom) | ... Input interpretation: Wales,United Kingdom to United Kingdom They seem to treat England as synonymous with United Kingdom. The map shows a line from what is presumably their chosen central point of the UK to Wales, Sheffield, east of the Rother Valley Country Park just the other side of the M1 motorway. Trying "Northern Ireland to England": Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input. Tips for good results » Related inputs to try: * Ireland to England Countries: * Ireland, England Ireland * more... Hmmph. OK, try again with "Ulster to England": It's happy with that: Input interpretation: Ulster,New York,United States to United Kingdom 3289 miles The provide of this seervice, Wolfram Research, has a good reputation in computation. Their self-description is not empty-boasting: http://www.wolfram.com/company/background.html Wolfram Research is one of the world's most respected software companies--as well as a powerhouse of scientific and technical innovation. As pioneers in computational science and the computational paradigm, we have pursued a long-term vision to develop the science, technology, and tools to make computation an ever-more-potent force in today's and tomorrow's world. At the center is Mathematica: our ever-advancing core product that launched modern technical computing and has now become the world's most powerful global computation system. With millions of dedicated users throughout the technical and educational communities, Mathematica represents a unique blend of major research breakthroughs, outstanding user-oriented design, and world-class software engineering. A potential problem is that with Wolfram Alpha the company is reaching out beyond its normal scientific and technical communities to the whole world. People will make queries which are perfectly reasonable to the askers but far from simple to answer. The system responding to the queries needs to be less than simple-minded. Q: How far is it from England to Wales? A: Input interpretation: England, the country, to Wales, the country. It is n miles from the central point of England[1] to the central point of Wales[2]. England and Wales have a shared border. The distance between a location in England to a location in Wales depends on which locations you choose. The distance varies between 0 miles and 305 miles (approx.) There are other places named England and Wales: <list of them> (Notes [1] and [2] specify the central points.) Next question please. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) Peter wrote on Tue, 19 May 2009 15:42:12 +0100: >> Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >> computable. >> >> http://www89.wolframalpha.com/ >> It seems to work all right for some operations. It gave me >> the right answer to the question "What do you get if you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> Have fun > Next question please. One answer is quite wrong. As suggested on the web site, I gave it my birthday and received "No known major or notable events." SignatureJames Silverton Potomac, Maryland Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not > One answer is quite wrong. As suggested on the web site, I gave it my > birthday and received "No known major or notable events." I gave it my birthday and it got my last name wrong. --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire >Trying "Northern Ireland to England": > > Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input. Asking START (<http://start.csail.mit.edu/>) "how far is it from northern ireland to england"[1], on the other hand, yields: ===> how far is it from northern ireland to england The distance between Belfast, the capital of Northern Ireland, and London, the capital of England, UK, is 298 miles (481 kilometers). Source: START KB Score one for Boris. It also makes reasonable guesses for things like: ===> how far is it from scotland to nova scotia The distance between Edinburgh, the capital of Scotland, and Halifax, the capital of Nova Scotia, is 2,685 miles (4,331 kilometers). Source: START KB and: ===> how long is the border between france and germany The border between Germany and France is 451 kilometers long. (However, this answer comes from the CIA World Fact Book, which doesn't give separate details for the constituent countries of the United Kingdom.) Unfortunately, it doesn't know the obvious answers to "how much is that doggie in the window" or "how long is the coast of wales". -GAWollman [1] START doesn't care about punctuation or capitalization that I've ever seen. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness > Unfortunately, it doesn't know the obvious answers > to "how much is that doggie in the window" or "how long is the coast > of wales". It correctly answered "how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire >It correctly answered "how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a >woodchuck could chuck wood?" I'll have to try it on "How many boards would the Mongols hoard if the Mongol hordes got bored?" SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >>computable. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >>right answer to the question "What do you get if you multiply six >>by nine?" "42", obviously. But for some reason WolframAlpha disagrees. Cheers - Ian (BrE: Yorks., hants.) > Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge > computable. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > right answer to the question "What do you get if you multiply six > by nine?" It said "54" when I asked it. > Distances seem to be more of a problem, however. If you just type > in "England to Wales" you get an interesting map and the result > 54.7 miles. "England to Scotland" is much further, 3225 miles. It depends on where (it thinks) *you* are, but it tells you which one it assumed (the nearest one to you, evidently) and you can pick a different one. I get 3,785 for "England to Wales", using Wales, WI as the base. It's 3,429 from Wales, NY. If you pick "Wales (United Kingdom)" it does, indeed, tell you that it's 54.7 miles from "United Kingdom" to "Wales, United Kingdom". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |I value writers such as Fiske. 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |They serve as valuable object Palo Alto, CA 94304 |lessons by showing that the most |punctilious compliance with the kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |rules of usage has so little to do (650)857-7572 |with either writing or thinking |well. http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | --Richard Hershberger Evan Kirshenbaum skrev: >> It seems to work all right for some operations. It gave me the >> right answer to the question "What do you get if you multiply six >> by nine?" > > It said "54" when I asked it. Do you have to tell it explicitly what base to use? SignatureJens Brix Christiansen >Evan Kirshenbaum skrev: >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Do you have to tell it explicitly what base to use? I think that's chosen by default. Base 13 gives the right answer: 42. SignatureJames >> Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >> computable. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Kingdom)" it does, indeed, tell you that it's 54.7 miles from "United >Kingdom" to "Wales, United Kingdom". But as I discovered, that is to a small place named Wales in England not to the country named Wales. The distance is from there to some central point ("centroid" perhaps) of the UK. That information is unhelpful in two respects. The central point of the UK is unknown to me and, I'm sure, to the vast majority of the population, and the existence of village/hamlet named Wales was completely unknown to me, and I suspect, to a large majority of my fellow citizens. The distance from New York City to New York State is 176.2 miles. That is presumably the distance between two central points. Do many people know the central points of NY city and NY state as defined by geographers? Do geographers even agree with one another? SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) > The distance from New York City to New York State is 176.2 miles. That > is presumably the distance between two central points. Do many people > know the central points of NY city and NY state as defined by > geographers? Do geographers even agree with one another? And where is the centre of London? I was taught when young that measurements were from Marble Arch but I think I read here that it is Charing Cross. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) LFS wrote, in <77g3vmF1hdeovU2@mid.individual.net> on Tue, 19 May 2009 17:10:31 +0100: > > The distance from New York City to New York State is 176.2 miles. That > > is presumably the distance between two central points. Do many people [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > measurements were from Marble Arch but I think I read here that it is > Charing Cross. It is Charing Cross for taxis. I don't know if it still applies but the standard metered fare only applied within a four mile radius of Charing Cross. "The Four-mile Radius" is used by 19th century writers to mean Central London. SignatureNick Spalding BrE/IrE > And where is the centre of London? I was taught when young that > measurements were from Marble Arch but I think I read here that it is > Charing Cross. What about the ancient omphalos? http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=8349 SignatureAnd remember, while you're out there risking your life and limb through shot and shell, we'll be in be in here thinking what a sucker you are. [Rufus T. Firefly] >> The distance from New York City to New York State is 176.2 miles. That >> is presumably the distance between two central points. Do many people [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > measurements were from Marble Arch but I think I read here that it is > Charing Cross. If you set off from 'London' using the AA route planner, it starts from Parliament Sq. > > The distance from New York City to New York State is 176.2 miles. That > > is presumably the distance between two central points. Do many people [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > measurements were from Marble Arch but I think I read here that it is > Charing Cross. Last time I checked, mileages from New York City were measured from Times Square, probably where Broadway and Seventh Ave. (which are merged at that point) intersect 45th St. The central milepost in DC is located on the northern tip of the Ellipse on a line with 16th St. NW, which doesn't actually exist in that location. It's directly across E St. NW from the back lawn of the White House. There's an actual milepost in that location, bearing an explanatory plaque, and although that portion of E St. has been closed to traffic since 9/11, you can reach the post on foot with a bit of exertion. SignatureBob Lieblich Posting about posts >Last time I checked, mileages from New York City were measured from >Times Square, probably where Broadway and Seventh Ave. (which are >merged at that point) intersect 45th St. I believe Columbus Circle is the more conventional origin point. There was a series of Hagstrom map books including communities within progressively greater distances of Columbus Circle. If there's a point of that sort for Boston, it's probably the State House. The original Metropolitan Water District and Boston Metropolitan District[1] were both set up that way (the MWD I believe was 12 miles). -GAWollman [1] Not to be confused with the Metropolitan District Commission, the successor to the Metropolitan Water District, which has since been replaced by the Massachusetts Water Resources Authority and the Urban Parks and Parkways Division of the Department of Conservation and Recreation. The Boston Metropolitan District was the dependent taxing authority that funded the Metropolitan Transit Authority (as immortalized in the song "Charlie on the MTA"), and ceased to exist when the last of the MTA's bonds were paid off about fifteen years ago. (Which is a few decades after the MTA itself was replaced by the MBTA, which has its own dependent taxing authority.) Few people have ever heard of the BMD -- I would never have known about it had I not been looking at an old U.S. Census Bureau "Census of Governments" that mentioned it. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness Garrett Wollman filted: >>Last time I checked, mileages from New York City were measured from >>Times Square, probably where Broadway and Seventh Ave. (which are [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Metropolitan District[1] were both set up that way (the MWD I believe >was 12 miles). Some years ago I spent some time playing with maps and found the geographic center of the city of Phoenix, which at that time was near 7th Street and Northern...they've been annexing chunks of desert the whole time so I assume the point has now moved some distance north....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > In article <4A1327D6.C5E70...@yahoo.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > authority that funded the Metropolitan Transit Authority (as > immortalized in the song "Charlie on the MTA"), <snip> ...a song eternally linked in my mind with the taste of S'mores, which I believe were discussed in this august forum at some point once too. If this leads you to deduce that I was at a Scout camp in Massachusetts at a certain point in time, you would be correct. This means I also used to know which kind of sumac to use to make tea, a fact now lost to me. cheers, Stephanie in Brussels where I just know where to buy chocolate >> [1] Not to be confused with the Metropolitan District Commission, the >> successor to the Metropolitan Water District, which has since been [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ....a song eternally linked in my mind with the taste of S'mores, which > I believe were discussed in this august forum at some point once too. Oh, dear, there it is. Usenet has rotated about its axis once again. I'll stay on for just one more circuit. Honest. > If this leads you to deduce that I was at a Scout camp in > Massachusetts at a certain point in time, you would be correct. PA/NJ border for me. Not scouts though - YMHA (that's not well known in the UK - substitute "Hebrew" for "Christian"). SignatureDavid >> The distance from New York City to New York State is 176.2 miles. That >> is presumably the distance between two central points. Do many people [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > measurements were from Marble Arch but I think I read here that it is > Charing Cross. It was always Charing Cross when IWAL. SignatureRob Bannister >On Tue, 19 May 2009 08:28:22 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum ><kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >know the central points of NY city and NY state as defined by >geographers? Do geographers even agree with one another? The centre of England is on a farm in Leicestershire. It seems reasonable that that's in the Midlands. <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2271925.stm> Links from that page will tell you that the centre of Great Britain is a peat bog on a farm in Lancashire, and that the spot farthest from the coast is in Derbyshire. The centre of Wales is near the coast, obviously, two and a half kilometres south of Cwmystwyth. "The fields are rumoured to be the site of the Celts' fiercest battles" Mr Morgan said. They were clearly all disemvowelled. SignaturePaul >Kingdom)" it does, indeed, tell you that it's 54.7 miles from "United >Kingdom" to "Wales, United Kingdom". Presumably you have to cross the Welsh Sea. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk > Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge > computable. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Have fun I'm glad you posted that - I saw a snippet on the TV news about it but had forgotten the name. The news snippet suggested that it was a rival to Google but I'm not at all sure what it's meant to do. I put in "Oxford" and got information about Oxford University. "Oxford Brookes" got the response "Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input." Putting in my birthday (St George's Day) gets the response "no official holidays or major observances". SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >> computable. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Putting in my birthday (St George's Day) gets the response "no official >holidays or major observances". Entering AUE led me to a town in Saxony which could be the venue for a future boink: http://www.niederelbe.de/ostemarsch/aue.jpg You naturally will not have tried any dirty words, but I did that on your behalf. I was rewarded by this interesting map of a synonym network: http://www5e.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP987195h960e6e034g6200002773giih33 i3abb8?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=23 or http://tinyurl.com/okcdu5 And the relevance to AUE is shown by the result you get if you type in the F-word. You get the title of a film from 2006 with a cast headed by our very own Reinhold Aman. SignatureJames >>> Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >>> computable. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > for a future boink: > http://www.niederelbe.de/ostemarsch/aue.jpg Yes, that one was in the last SDC SignatureRay UK > You naturally will not have tried any dirty words, but I did that > on your behalf. I was rewarded by this interesting map of a > synonym network: > http://www5e.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP987195h960e6e034g6200002773giih33 i3abb8?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=23 or http://tinyurl.com/okcdu5 "Sorry, Wolfram|Alpha could not find the page you asked for." athel Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel_cb@yahoo.co.uk> Whose moving finger wrote, and cheerfully Clicked "Send" to wing the words below to me, Is powerless to cancel half a line: 'Tis stored on Google sempiternally. >> You naturally will not have tried any dirty words, but I did that >> on your behalf. I was rewarded by this interesting map of a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >Wolfram|Alpha could not find the page you asked for." Sorry about that. I wanted to illustrate the strange "synonym networks" the site produces when you look up certain words. I can't see what use they would be to anyone. Try typing in the word "sh.t" and look at the diagram at the bottom: http://www89.wolframalpha.com/ SignatureJames > Sorry about that. I wanted to illustrate the strange "synonym > networks" the site produces when you look up certain words. I > can't see what use they would be to anyone. Try typing in the > word "sh.t" and look at the diagram at the bottom: > > http://www89.wolframalpha.com/ I would never have thought of that unaided. Strange how "cuckold" and "bird" seem to have no connection with anything else that comes up. Still, it was refreshing to be told that "sh.t" cannot be hyphenated. SignatureRob Bannister >> Sorry about that. I wanted to illustrate the strange "synonym >> networks" the site produces when you look up certain words. I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "bird" seem to have no connection with anything else that comes up. > Still, it was refreshing to be told that "sh.t" cannot be hyphenated. That sheriff in the Bond film with the flying boat would disagree. SignatureDavid >> Sorry about that. I wanted to illustrate the strange "synonym >> networks" the site produces when you look up certain words. I [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > "bird" seem to have no connection with anything else that comes up. > Still, it was refreshing to be told that "sh.t" cannot be hyphenated. How did you get those? All I see is 'bewray'. When I look up 'bewray', its synonym tree leads to 'fail, 'cast' and 'sess'. But it looks to be a typo for 'betray'. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au > Athel Cornish-Bowden <athel_cb@yahoo.co.uk> >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > http://www89.wolframalpha.com/ After clicking on 'more', I see a diagram like blue broccoli, with 'sh.t' and 'bewray' written on it. Although the cursor turns into a hand pointer when I hover over it, I can't get it to do anything else in any of three web browsers. It knows the genetic sequence of ARSE but not of ELBOW. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au [ ... ] And the relevance to AUE is shown by the result you get if you > type in the F-word. You get the title of a film from 2006 with a > cast headed by our very own Reinhold Aman. "(first recorded use: 1916 (93 years ago))" That seems a bit too recent! The SOED says it's E16, which also seems a bit recent, but not so grossly so. I don't remember if Chaucer used it -- he certainly used "swyve". Signatureathel [ ... ] > And the relevance to AUE is shown by the result you get if you >> type in the F-word. You get the title of a film from 2006 with a >> cast headed by our very own Reinhold Aman. > "(first recorded use: 1916 (93 years ago))" > That seems a bit too recent! The SOED says it's E16, which also > seems a bit recent, but not so grossly so. I don't remember if > Chaucer used it -- he certainly used "swyve". I remember someone (Anthony Burgess?) asserting that it was a variant form, appearing* around E16 indeed, of "firk" or "ferk". For that word, Webster's 1913 has: Firk (?), v. t. [Cf. OE. ferken to proceed, hasten, AS. fercian to bring, assist[**]; perh. akin to faran to go, E. fare.] To beat; to strike; to chastise. (Obs.) I'll fer him, and firk him, and ferret him. Shak. Firk, v. i. To fly out; to turn out; to go off. [Obs.] A wench is a rare bait, with which a man No sooner's taken but he straight firks mad.B.Jonson. and the 1828 edition contributes "[Not used.]" If my SOED3 is any indication, the OED would add that other uses included "to move briskly" (sometimes "off") and "to cheat", both of which are pretty reminiscent of uses of "f.ck". AlphaWolfie isn't sure what to do with "firk". __________ *But the original may reappear soon, as per the recent "berks for books" threadlet. ** According to my A-S dictionary, "fercian" was used by AElfric in his _Lives of the Saints_ to mean "stuff up" (with lies). >** According to my A-S dictionary, "fercian" was used by AElfric in >his _Lives of the Saints_ to mean "stuff up" (with lies). Hence (or maybe not), "forcemeat", described by OED2 as "Meat chopped fine, spiced, and highly seasoned, chiefly used for stuffing or as a garnish." (Although OED's etymology goes direct to OF "farsir", and the only entry to mention "fercian" in its etymology is not shown with the sense you describe, so this would seem to be a lacuna.) -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >> ** According to my A-S dictionary, "fercian" was used by AElfric in >> his _Lives of the Saints_ to mean "stuff up" (with lies). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > etymology is not shown with the sense you describe, so this would > seem to be a lacuna.) Maybe hence; maybe thence, even. "Farsir/farcir" is Latin "farcire", and AElfric would have been familiar with that. I wonder if he was adapting "fercian" to mean "farcire" because he didn't have a native word for it. > [ ... ] > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > a bit recent, but not so grossly so. I don't remember if Chaucer used > it -- he certainly used "swyve". Which (discreet hint) he certainly didn't refer to as "the S-word". SignatureMike. >> [ ... ] >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Which (discreet hint) he certainly didn't refer to as "the S-word". Not a discreet hint to me, I hope. I _never_ use such terms unless I'm quoting someone else. Signatureathel >> Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >> computable. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Putting in my birthday (St George's Day) gets the response "no official >holidays or major observances". The machine seems to think that my birthday, 23 May, was equally uneventful. So I was all the more pleased to discover, elsewhere, a list of "Dates in the month of May that are of interest to linguists" by James McCawley: May 23, 38,471 B.C: God creates language. Other gems: May 19: Diphthong Day. (Public holiday in Australia) May 5, 1403: The Great English Vowel Shift begins. Giles of Tottenham calls for ale at his favorite pub and is perplexed when the barmaid tells him that the fishmonger is next door. and one for Skitt: May 29, 1962: Angular brackets are discovered. Classes at M.I.T. are dismissed and much Latvian plum brandy is consumed. Full list at http://web.archive.org/web/20020520231318/www.emich.edu/~linguist/issues/2/2-174.html SignatureJames >Putting in my birthday (St George's Day) gets the response "no official >holidays or major observances". But it gave me the phase of the moon on my birthday (waning gibbous), and I'm writing a nove where I want to mention phases of the moon on certain dates, and so I'll bookmark it to refer to it again. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk >>Putting in my birthday (St George's Day) gets the response "no official >>holidays or major observances". > >But it gave me the phase of the moon on my birthday (waning gibbous), Oh, dear. There goes that funky gibbon again. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>> Putting in my birthday (St George's Day) gets the response "no official >>> holidays or major observances". >> But it gave me the phase of the moon on my birthday (waning gibbous), > > Oh, dear. There goes that funky gibbon again. Thank you *so* much for that. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) LFS filted: >>> But it gave me the phase of the moon on my birthday (waning gibbous), >> >> Oh, dear. There goes that funky gibbon again. > >Thank you *so* much for that. Oh, Goodie!...for once I wasn't the one responsible....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >>> On Tue, 19 May 2009 17:04:18 +0100, LFS >>> <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thank you *so* much for that. I've just offered up a more classy number to overpower the Goodies. SignatureDavid >>>> On Tue, 19 May 2009 17:04:18 +0100, LFS >>>> <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I've just offered up a more classy number to overpower the Goodies. So, so cruel... SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>>> On Tue, 19 May 2009 17:04:18 +0100, LFS >>>>> <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > So, so cruel... Oh. I'm sorry. I thought it would be preferable to the ape song. SignatureDavid >> Putting in my birthday (St George's Day) gets the response "no official >> holidays or major observances". > > But it gave me the phase of the moon on my birthday (waning gibbous), and I'm > writing a nove where I want to mention phases of the moon on certain dates, > and so I'll bookmark it to refer to it again. <Frankie Vaughan> Gibbous the Moonlight ... </Frankie Vaughan> SignatureDavid >> On Tue, 19 May 2009 17:04:18 +0100, LFS >> <laura@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > </Frankie Vaughan> Aargh! I hate you! SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >> computable. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Putting in my birthday (St George's Day) gets the response "no official > holidays or major observances". I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict instructions not to share it. The current data set is very US-centric, despite Wolfram being an ex-pat Brit. I took part in a web-demo of the solution - he explained that they will only load verifiable data into the system and that it all takes a long time. At the moment, results are patchy and sometimes bizarre, but I think it's worth watching. SignatureDavid >>> Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >>> computable. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > the system and that it all takes a long time. At the moment, results > are patchy and sometimes bizarre, but I think it's worth watching. Wording seems to be vital. I tried a number of variations on "What is the distance from Perth to Adelaide" with no result, but when I asked "How far is it from Perth to Adelaide" it gave me the answer with the proviso that Adelaide is a city and not an island. SignatureRob Bannister >> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "How far is it from Perth to Adelaide" it gave me the answer with the > proviso that Adelaide is a city and not an island. In my on-line area of expertiese, I tried it with: how far is it from Liverpool to Leeds Wolfram Alpha comes back with the "isn't sure what to do with your input", followed by something I don't understand about related inputs to try: cities, and future topics: canal. START, which someone suggested at least comes back with a nice answer "I am sorry to say I don't know how far Liverpool is from Leeds by the canal." Google's first hit is the Wikipedia entry which contains the right answer - as indeed do almost all the hits on the first page. So far unstructured search seems to be beating semantic analysis. SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu >>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >input", followed by something I don't understand about related inputs to >try: cities, and future topics: canal. That's curious. I pasted in your "how far is it from Liverpool to Leeds" and got a map showing the cities in their proper place and the distance 65 miles. Did you by any chance say something rude to Wolfram Alpha before you posed that question? It may have been taught how to huff. >START, which someone suggested at least comes back with a nice answer "I >am sorry to say I don't know how far Liverpool is from Leeds by the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >So far unstructured search seems to be beating semantic analysis. And so much depends on what they have put it. They have anticipated questions about the meaning of life, the amount of wood a woodchuck can chuck, and how many roads a man must walk down, but not about the length of a piece of string or who put the bomp in the bomp, bomp, bomp. SignatureJames >>>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > down, but not about the length of a piece of string or who put > the bomp in the bomp, bomp, bomp. Or who put the bam in the... OK, that's dealt with the Sugar Plum Fairy.. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>>>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >Or who put the bam in the... OK, that's dealt with the Sugar Plum Fairy.. It recognises the question "Why do fools fall in love?" although the answer is evasive. However, it is struck dumb when I ask "Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?" SignatureJames James Hogg filted: >And so much depends on what they have put it. They have >anticipated questions about the meaning of life, the amount of >wood a woodchuck can chuck, and how many roads a man must walk >down, but not about the length of a piece of string or who put >the bomp in the bomp, bomp, bomp. It makes a valiant attempt at providing the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow (I remember discovering that the creators of "Ask Jeeves" had anticipated this one), but gives up when asked the difference between a duck, as it does for the simple query "why is a mouse when it spins?"...r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? >James Hogg filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >It makes a valiant attempt at providing the airspeed velocity of an unladen >swallow Adding a coconut to the equation causes the system to overload. >(I remember discovering that the creators of "Ask Jeeves" had >anticipated this one), but gives up when asked the difference between a duck, as >it does for the simple query "why is a mouse when it spins?"...r Enter Draney and you will be told that you currently have a relative humidity of 72% and are 8 miles south-west of Paris. SignatureJames > Enter Draney and you will be told that you currently have a > relative humidity of 72% So that's what RH stands for! --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire Jeffrey Turner filted: >> Enter Draney and you will be told that you currently have a >> relative humidity of 72% > >So that's what RH stands for! Among other factors....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Jeffrey Turner filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Among other factors....r Stop monkeying around. I hope no one apes you. --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire >>> Wording seems to be vital. I tried a number of variations on "What is >>> the distance from Perth to Adelaide" with no result, but when I asked [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > to Wolfram Alpha before you posed that question? It may have been > taught how to huff. I think Nick missed "by canal" in his example above. SignatureDavid >>>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > to Wolfram Alpha before you posed that question? It may have been > taught how to huff. No. But I forgot to tell you that I'd put "by canal" on the end of my statement (without which START appears remarkably clever). SignatureOnline waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk development version: http://canalplan.eu [regarding WolframAlpha] > And so much depends on what they have put it. They have > anticipated questions about the meaning of life, the amount of > wood a woodchuck can chuck, and how many roads a man must walk > down, but not about the length of a piece of string or who put > the bomp in the bomp, bomp, bomp. They anticipated chickens and roads, but not chickens and eggs (or they don't want to get into a theological debate). I haven't figured out a reasonable way to get a ratio of the price of a US gallon of gas to a US barrel of oil, though each individually gives an answer. Signaturerzed >> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the distance from Perth to Adelaide" with no result, but when I asked > "How far is it from Perth to Adelaide" it gave me the answer with the I've learned to cut out the noise words. The simple way to ask that question is "perth to adelaide". SignatureDavid >>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I've learned to cut out the noise words. The simple way to ask that >question is "perth to adelaide". 10,122 miles SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >>>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > 10,122 miles Indeed. SignatureDavid >>>>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>>>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Indeed. But is that by train and ship or by plane? SignatureRob Bannister >>>>>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and >>>>>> strict instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > But is that by train and ship or by plane? From the map it appears to be by crow. SignatureDavid >>>>>>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and >>>>>>> strict instructions not to share it. The current data set is [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > From the map it appears to be by crow. I think that would be more frightening than Garuda. SignatureRob Bannister >>>>> I've learned to cut out the noise words. The simple way to ask >>>>> that question is "perth to adelaide". [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > From the map it appears to be by crow. And it gives the flight time. Crikey, that crow was really moving... SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I've learned to cut out the noise words. The simple way to ask that > question is "perth to adelaide". I think this raises an interesting issue of communication, related in part to text messaging. "Perth to Adelaide" is not a question: if you heard it spoken, a question could be signalled in the inflection but on the page it is essentially meaningless. Will future generations learn to "cut out the noise words" and frame questions in ways of which we have not yet thought, in order to communicate with "knowledge engines"? SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >>>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > "cut out the noise words" and frame questions in ways of which we have > not yet thought, in order to communicate with "knowledge engines"? The problem is that knowledge engines are very, very dim. People can easily cut through the waffle to the essence of what is being asked, but computer systems are easily befuddled. Reducing the question to something very simple helps it understand what you mean. Put a question mark at the end if you like, but the system will ignore it. I agree that "perth to adelaide" is meaningless, but there is context: I typed it into a search engine. There must be lots of areas where something would appear meaningless out of context. I remember a friend teasing some other friends who knew nothing about computers (this was many years ago) by showing them a mouse mat, telling them what it was called, and asking them what they thought it was used form. They simply couldn't imagine. SignatureDavid >>>>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>>>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >I agree that "perth to adelaide" is meaningless, but there is context: I >typed it into a search engine. WolframAlpha is more or less than a search engine. As a calculating engine it attempts to interpret a query as an arithmetical expression. In "perth to adelaide" "perth" and "adelaide" are in its database as geographical locations. In that context "to" indicates "distance between", as does "from". Typing just "perth adelaide" gives the same information in a different page layout. "perth adelaide sydney london perth" gives details of the four places, the lengths of the four "hops" and the round trip distance. "perth adelaide sydney london moon" sadly but not surprisingly got the response: "Wolfram|Alpha isn't sure what to do with your input". SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) <snip> > There must be lots of areas where > something would appear meaningless out of context. I remember a friend > teasing some other friends who knew nothing about computers (this was > many years ago) by showing them a mouse mat, telling them what it was > called, and asking them what they thought it was used form. They simply > couldn't imagine. Shades of this cartoon (DE readers only, I'm afraid): http://rolf.fraedrich.de/mathematik/abakus/linksrechts.html Reminds one of much communication from specialists in Area A to those who may understand Areas B through whatever.... cheers, Stephanie ><snip> >> There must be lots of areas where [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Shades of this cartoon (DE readers only, I'm afraid): Translated by Google: http://tinyurl.com/oqgye7 >http://rolf.fraedrich.de/mathematik/abakus/linksrechts.html > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >cheers, >Stephanie SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) LFS filted: >>> Wording seems to be vital. I tried a number of variations on "What is >>> the distance from Perth to Adelaide" with no result, but when I asked [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >"cut out the noise words" and frame questions in ways of which we have >not yet thought, in order to communicate with "knowledge engines"? "Natchez to Mobile" is likewise understood as a request for the distance between two points, but then so is "David to Bathsheba"....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > LFS filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > distance between two points, but then so is "David to > Bathsheba"....r Tinker to Evers to Chance is right out. Come on, it can't be more than about 150 feet, tops. Signaturerzed > I think this raises an interesting issue of communication, related in > part to text messaging. "Perth to Adelaide" is not a question: if you > heard it spoken, a question could be signalled in the inflection but on > the page it is essentially meaningless. Will future generations learn to > "cut out the noise words" and frame questions in ways of which we have > not yet thought, in order to communicate with "knowledge engines"? I can't help think of ancient computer games like King's Quest, where one was expected to type commands to proceed. It didn't like noise at all, so we learned to type things like "take key", "use key", "open door", "enter door". Whether King's Quest was properly a "knowledge engine" is debatable, but I think we learned a thing or two, though perhaps not about sentence structure. >>> I've been testing this for some weeks - I had a password and strict >>> instructions not to share it. The current data set is very [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I've learned to cut out the noise words. The simple way to ask that > question is "perth to adelaide". That was my first try. Then I added "distance", finally wrote the whole question. All were unsuccessful until I tried the "how far" thing. If it worked for you, then maybe they've already updated it. SignatureRob Bannister > Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge > computable. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Have fun Its answer to "what do you dislike?" is "I don't like to be treated as if I were just a search engine." So stop it, already! (OTOH, it's no good at philosophy: "how high is up?" results in parsedExpr = '$Failed' assumptionsMade = '{}' rawAssumptions = '{}') Jim Deutch (JimboCat) -- "Don't anthropomorphise computers. They hate that." >> Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >> computable. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >"I don't like to be treated as if I were just a search engine." But it knows what it likes. >So stop it, already! > >(OTOH, it's no good at philosophy: "how high is up?" results in > parsedExpr = '$Failed' > assumptionsMade = '{}' > rawAssumptions = '{}') "How long is a piece of string?" stumps it too. However, I'm very glad to see it knows the answer to "What is the meaning of life?" SignatureJames >> (OTOH, it's no good at philosophy: "how high is up?" results in >> parsedExpr = '$Failed' [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "How long is a piece of string?" stumps it too. However, I'm very > glad to see it knows the answer to "What is the meaning of life?" I asked it "Does God exist?" and it told me "Additional functionality for this topic is under development..." An ambitious project. SignatureRegards John for mail: my initials plus a u e at tpg dot com dot au >> Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >> computable. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > assumptionsMade = '{}' > rawAssumptions = '{}') That's as good an answer as any. SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >computable. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >right answer to the question "What do you get if you multiply six >by nine?" I asked it how many beans make five, and it wasn't sure what to do with my input. SignatureSteve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk Steve Hayes filted: >>Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >>computable. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I asked it how many beans make five, and it wasn't sure what to do with my >input. That's the answer to most of the questions I've posed...it seems to know nothing of music....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > That's the answer to most of the questions I've posed...it seems to > know nothing of music....r It knows chords ("C dominant 7th chord"), scales ("C# mixolydian"), and intervals ("perfect fifth"), but not a whole lot more. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If to "man" a phone implies handing 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |it over to a person of the male Palo Alto, CA 94304 |gender, then to "monitor" it |suggests handing it over to a kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |lizard. (650)857-7572 | Rohan Oberoi http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ Evan Kirshenbaum filted: >> That's the answer to most of the questions I've posed...it seems to >> know nothing of music....r > >It knows chords ("C dominant 7th chord"), scales ("C# mixolydian"), >and intervals ("perfect fifth"), but not a whole lot more. That's better than I would have expected...it had no idea what a "top ten" was....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge > computable. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > in "England to Wales" you get an interesting map and the result > 54.7 miles. "England to Scotland" is much further, 3225 miles. It's a long way to Tipperary, 3018 miles for me. How high is the moon? -41 degrees 50 arc minutes But it doesn't know the way to San Jose. --Jeff SignatureThe comfort of the wealthy has always depended upon an abundant supply of the poor. --Voltaire Jeffrey Turner filted: >It's a long way to Tipperary, 3018 miles for me. > >How high is the moon? -41 degrees 50 arc minutes > >But it doesn't know the way to San Jose. Is this the way to Amarillo?...are you going to Scarborough Fair?...in these shoes?...r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? > Jeffrey Turner filted: >> It's a long way to Tipperary, 3018 miles for me. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Is this the way to Amarillo?...are you going to Scarborough Fair?...in these > shoes?...r Enough already! SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) >> Jeffrey Turner filted: >>> It's a long way to Tipperary, 3018 miles for me. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Enough already! Lord, I'm 500 miles from my home. I'm leavin' on a jet plane, too. Speaking of which, earlier today I took my brother to the airport where he boarded a Virgin Atlantic flight to Gatwick. (First leg to return to Denmark) What a mix of a crowd, mix of passport cover colors, mix of languages, mix of smells, and mix of over-stuffed carry-on bags. Prevelant smells: coconut and sweat. Best line heard while standing in the check-in line with my brother: (American speaking to his wife) "How was I supposed to know it's over-weight? I don't know what kilograms are. I'm not a drug dealer." SignatureTony Cooper - Orlando, Florida >Best line heard while standing in the check-in line with my brother: >(American speaking to his wife) "How was I supposed to know it's >over-weight? I don't know what kilograms are. I'm not a drug >dealer." I like it! SignaturePeter Duncanson, UK (in alt.usage.english) >> Is this the way to Amarillo?...are you going to Scarborough Fair?...in these >> shoes?...r >Enough already! There must be a way to make humorous references to popular songs that won't send Laura to the point of hysteria. True? Or perhaps she would prefer to enjoy the silence. But people are people, so I suppose some will continue playing to the firmament. What do you hear in these sounds, Laura? Will you forever curse December, 1979? Or perhaps it's all been done, and we're all just waiting for the big reprise at the close of the day. -GAWollman PS: Sorry, you can't resist it. Or I can't, anyway. I don't mean to be cruel, honest. SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness >>> Is this the way to Amarillo?...are you going to Scarborough Fair?...in these >>> shoes?...r [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > PS: Sorry, you can't resist it. Or I can't, anyway. I don't mean to > be cruel, honest. Kind of you to be concerned, Garrett. If you are: that's not entirely clear. STS is a relatively trivial affliction and if I really minded I'd stop reading aue, although it is not the only source of the problem. I am currently involved in a project related to Cadbury: my colleagues are enjoying themselves with references to chocolate and yesterday one wit mentioned fruit and nut. Rightpondians will know that I am now haunted by the dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy. But as long as there are people out there teasing me I know I'm still alive and I seem to have reached the age where I need to keep checking on that. SignatureLaura (emulate St. George for email) [my message with 13 song titles worked in deleted...] Well, I think I've found the answer. Music that I like doesn't seem to cause STS. (At least not for Laura... I've now got a Def Leppard earworm, which I wouldn't have thought possible.) -GAWollman SignatureGarrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are wollman@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness > Jeffrey Turner filted: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Is this the way to Amarillo?...are you going to Scarborough Fair?...in these > shoes?...r Scandalous! > Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge > computable. How could knowledge be not computable? (in principle) Jan > > Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge > > computable. > > How could knowledge be not computable? (in principle) Mathematicians have been exploring such questions for quite some time, and they actually have some answers, too! There are only a finite number of computable questions, but there are clearly an infinite number of questions (if you allow for infinitely long questions, anyway). Therefore, MOST questions are uncomputable. See the "halting problem" for a concrete example. It might seem strange, but most real numbers are uncomputable: their decimal expansion never repeats, so you can never write down the whole thing (though you can of course get arbitrarily close if you keep writing for an arbitrary length of time). Upthread we have the example of "what is the length of a piece of string." The website couldn't handle that question because it couldn't figure out what was being asked. But even with a perfect "knowledge computer" there could be none but an approximate answer to the question "what is the length of *this* piece of string?" Length is a real number, so is vastly unlikely to be computable. Jim Deutch (JimboCat) -- technical term: a seemingly ordinary word or phrase, the meaning of which in some contexts is distorted beyond mortal comprehension. (Note: "technical term" is a technical term.) > It might seem strange, but most real numbers are uncomputable: their > decimal expansion never repeats, so you can never write down the whole > thing (though you can of course get arbitrarily close if you keep > writing for an arbitrary length of time). Most of the ones from my programs have been computable. [ducks] SignatureDo not use _literally_ to intensify a metaphorical exaggeration. People in a famine relief camp may be _literally_ starving, but it is not a thing to say about oneself towards lunchtime. (Gowers, _The Complete Plain Words_) > > > Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge > > > computable. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > anyway). Therefore, MOST questions are uncomputable. See the "halting > problem" for a concrete example. All possible questions one may ask are finite in length. Therefore the set of all possible questions is countable. > It might seem strange, but most real numbers are uncomputable: their > decimal expansion never repeats, so you can never write down the whole > thing (though you can of course get arbitrarily close if you keep > writing for an arbitrary length of time). Most computable numbers (like pi) don't have repeating decimals. Only the rational numbers do. > Upthread we have the example of "what is the length of a piece of > string." The website couldn't handle that question because it couldn't > figure out what was being asked. But even with a perfect "knowledge > computer" there could be none but an approximate answer to the > question "what is the length of *this* piece of string?" Length is a > real number, so is vastly unlikely to be computable. Any physical result is a rational number, hence (with a suitable choice of units) an integer. Perhaps Brouwer could intuit something non-computable? Jan > > > > Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge > > > > computable. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Perhaps Brouwer could intuit something non-computable? How long is a guitar string? stephanie.mitchell@telenet.be filted: >How long is a guitar string? How long is a Chinese guitarist.... To be fair, I've never heard him, but a very talented Chinese guitarist has come to my attention of late: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brlCdigccQQ ....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net> Whose moving finger wrote, and cheerfully Clicked "Send" to wing the words below to me, Is powerless to cancel half a line: 'Tis stored on Google sempiternally. >stephanie.mitchell@telenet.be filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brlCdigccQQ As Long As we're recommending guitarists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktjlu0BjOkM SignatureJames >> > Here's a site that claims to make the world's knowledge >> > computable. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > time, and they actually have some answers, too! There are only a > finite number of computable questions, A countably infinite number, unless you put a bound on the number of computational steps, in which case it becomes finite. > but there are clearly an infinite number of questions (if you allow > for infinitely long questions, anyway). A similarly countably infinite number, with the same notion of finiteness if you put a bound on how long the question can be. But you don't have to allow infinitely long questions for the number to be countable. There are an infinite number of finitely representable questions. The question at hand is whether there's a sense of something being "knowledge" but not "computable". I'd posit that something learned by observing the world would count. I just rolled a die and it came up five. That's not something that can be computed. On the other hand, now that I've written it down, in some sense perhaps it is, as there's an algorithm for deciding what I got when I rolled it. > Therefore, MOST questions are uncomputable. See the "halting > problem" for a concrete example. That doesn't depend on a size difference between the number of questions and the number of computable answers. > It might seem strange, but most real numbers are uncomputable: their > decimal expansion never repeats, so you can never write down the whole > thing (though you can of course get arbitrarily close if you keep > writing for an arbitrary length of time). All irrational numbers don't repeat, but a large number of them are finitely representable. The algebraic numbers, for example. Of course most (almost all) of them are not finitely representable. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |I believe there are more instances 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |of the abridgment of the freedom of Palo Alto, CA 94304 |the people by gradual and silent |encroachments of those in power kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |than by violent and sudden (650)857-7572 |usurpations. | James Madison http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ |
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