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Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009Multiples of names ending in s
Are there standard ways to write and to speak multiples of names ending in the letter s? For example, * Three people called Peter: Three Peters (not Peter's) * Three people called James: <what?> Probably the latter would be pronounces as three Jameses for clarity but three Jamess with the double s is clearly incorrect. Any ideas? James James Harris skrev: > Are there standard ways to write and to speak multiples of names > ending in the letter s? For example, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Any ideas? What makes "three Jameses" less obvious than "three Peters"? A suburbanite trying to keep up with the Joneses would probably also try to keep up with the Jameses if Pat and Tricia James were to move in next door instead.  SignatureJens Brix Christiansen > Are there standard ways to write and to speak multiples of names > ending in the letter s? For example, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Probably the latter would be pronounces as three Jameses for clarity > but three Jamess with the double s is clearly incorrect. I think "three Jameses" is better, but so is "three Baileys" (three glasses of Baileys). The right choice depends on clarity and euphony. "Three James" could be mistaken for "three Janes". "Three Baileyses" sounds ridiculous. Adrian In our last episode, <d83954b6-045a-4cb6-9c00-4db1d3aa5210@h23g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, the lovely and talented James Harris broadcast on alt.usage.english: > Are there standard ways to write and to speak multiples of names > ending in the letter s? For example, > * Three people called Peter: Three Peters (not Peter's) > * Three people called James: <what?> > Probably the latter would be pronounces as three Jameses for clarity > but three Jamess with the double s is clearly incorrect. > Any ideas? Form the plural by adding s or es. Do not change the base spelling of the name (three Judys, not three Judies). Except for not changing the base spelling, the choice should be influence by the rules for adding s and es to ordinary nouns, with a bias toward s in questionable cases (that is, there is no reason to agonize over names ending in o). SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com 124 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term. Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't. > Form the plural by adding s or es. Do not change the base spelling of the > name (three Judys, not three Judies). I have not counted, but people writing about the kings of England probably write "eight Henries" as often as "eight Henrys." SignatureDon Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) Don Phillipson: > I have not counted, but people writing about the kings of > England probably write "eight Henries" as often as "eight Henrys." So let's count: "eight Henrys" 340 "eight Henries" 129 kings "eight Henrys" 273 kings "eight Henries" 97 kings england "eight Henrys" 87 kings england "eight Henries" 5 Hmm. SignatureMark Brader "Succeed, and you'll be remembered for a very long time. Toronto Fail, and you'll be remembered even longer." msb@vex.net -- Hel Faczel (John Barnes: ...the Martian King) My text in this article is in the public domain. Mark Brader filted: >Don Phillipson: >> I have not counted, but people writing about the kings of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Hmm. She wouldn't have a Willie or a Sam?... (Since Noone else was going to say it)....r SignatureA pessimist sees the glass as half empty. An optometrist asks whether you see the glass more full like this?...or like this? There was a kind of hush until R H Draney <dadoctah@spamcop.net> wrote: >Mark Brader filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >(Since Noone else was going to say it)....r You can download that whole song free if you want a new ringtone: http://www.peternoone.com/downloads/index.html SignatureJames > Mark Brader filted: >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > She wouldn't have a Willie or a Sam?... Not on yer life. Just the usual 8000 millihenries. That's 8 kg m?/C? for those of you keeping score in fundamental units, who hopefully will have a clearer intuition about what a square coulomb looks like than I do. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) > Not on yer life. Just the usual 8000 millihenries. > > That's 8 kg m²/C² for those of you keeping score in fundamental units, who > hopefully will have a clearer intuition about what a square coulomb looks > like than I do. 1 coulomb is (approximately) 6*10^18 electrons arranged in a line. 1 square coulomb is therefore 3.6*10^37 electrons arranged on a square. What does it look like? Usually, it is surrounded by an electric-blue halo and bright flashes, similar to what you see when a London tube train goes over some points. Richard Chambers Leeds UK. >> Not on yer life. Just the usual 8000 millihenries. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Richard Chambers Leeds UK. ObAmericanCulturalReference: Thank you, Dr. Science! SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) >>> Not on yer life. Just the usual 8000 millihenries. >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > ObAmericanCulturalReference: Thank you, Dr. Science! He's not a real doctor. SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |He who will not reason, is a bigot; 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |he who cannot is a fool; and he who Palo Alto, CA 94304 |dares not is a slave. | Sir William Drummond kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ >>>> Not on yer life. Just the usual 8000 millihenries. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > He's not a real doctor. He has a master's degree. SignatureRoland Hutchinson He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba," ... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy. --Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ ) >>>>> Not on yer life. Just the usual 8000 millihenries. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > He has a master's degree. In science! SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |Of course, over the first 10^-10 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |seconds and 10^-30 cubic Palo Alto, CA 94304 |centimeters it averages out to |zero, but when you look in kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com |detail.... (650)857-7572 | Philip Morrison http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ > Don Phillipson: >> I have not counted, but people writing about the kings of England [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > kings england "eight Henrys" 87 > kings england "eight Henries" 5 If you look at Google Books, however, the ratio drops to 69:35 in favor of "Henrys", and only 16:10 from 1930 on. If I get rid of the number and add a word like "throne", I see henrys throne 651 henries throne 634 (Some of each are what would now be "Henry's") going back to a 1698 reference to "The War between the two Henries". SignatureEvan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------ HP Laboratories |If the human brain were so simple 1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |That we could understand it, Palo Alto, CA 94304 |We would be so simple |That we couldn't. kirshenbaum@hpl.hp.com (650)857-7572 http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ In message <d83954b6-045a-4cb6-9c00-4db1d3aa5210@h23g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, James Harris <james.harris.1@googlemail.com> writes >Are there standard ways to write and to speak multiples of names >ending in the letter s? For example, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Any ideas? Three people each called James. KISS SignatureJames Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk http://www.pbase.com/jamesfollett Quoth james <james@marage.demon.co.uk>, and I quote: >In message ><d83954b6-045a-4cb6-9c00-4db1d3aa5210@h23g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Three people each called James. To be specific: Follett, Silverton and Harris. SignatureJames Hogg keeping up with the Jameses > In message > <d83954b6-045a-4cb6-9c00-4db1d3aa5...@h23g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > KISS Are you suggesting that "three people each called James" is simpler than "three Jameses"? If so, you and I have different definitions of "simple". In addition to more words and more complicated syntax, the "each called James" version brings up the complication of whether you need a comma after "people". (I'd say you do.) -- Jerry Friedman In message <74badc36-9432-4003-b53b-9f397c16e228@y17g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman@yahoo.com> writes >> In message >> <d83954b6-045a-4cb6-9c00-4db1d3aa5...@h23g2000vbc.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Are you suggesting that "three people each called James" is simpler >than "three Jameses"? I've allowed quite a lot of the garbage I write to be read aloud. The Silent Vulcan has been grinding away on BBC Radio 7 for nearly six months now and is set for another eight weeks. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007jshr For this reason I avoid syllabic sounds -- that is any clumsy sound that's likely to result in the hapless reader's teeth getting in the way of clear pronunciation. 'Jameses' is a word that offends my sense of elegance and order. SignatureJames Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk http://www.pbase.com/jamesfollett > In message > <74badc36-9432-4003-b53b-9f397c16e...@y17g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > of clear pronunciation. 'Jameses' is a word that offends my sense of > elegance and order. Got it. The real principle is KIE&OS. -- Jerry Friedman > Are there standard ways to write and to speak multiples of names > ending in the letter s? For example, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Probably the latter would be pronounces as three Jameses for clarity > but three Jamess with the double s is clearly incorrect. We have a friend with whom we regularly play Bridge. She often invites us (the Chamberses), as well as another couple, the Farmers, to play at her house. [That makes five participants for a game that requires four players, but we have ways of dealing with that particular difficulty]. At the end of one evening, she suggested that the next session should be held at the Farmers' -- that/s the way she talks -- and that the one after that should be at the Chamberses'. There's more to your question than meets the eye. Richard Chambers Leeds UK. |
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