a trivial test question

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

Tacia - 26 May 2009 16:43 GMT

Ladies and Gentlemen:

I am bugging you this time with a trivial test question in a public
test in Taiwan.

--------------
I write everything about work in my pink notebook; _____ it, I'd
forget the things I should do.
(a)before (b)except (c) outside (d) without
--------------
The given answer is (d).

Someone thinks that "before it" is okay too.

I know that "before" is an unremarkable word used to mean "earlier
than something or someone," but, IMHO, I would write "before using
it."
I have no solid evidence to support my claim, so it is expected that I
might be wrong. =]

Best Wishes,
Tacia

Reply to this Message

Nick - 26 May 2009 16:55 GMT

> Ladies and Gentlemen:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Someone thinks that "before it" is okay too.

I read this far and thought "it can't be".

> I know that "before" is an unremarkable word used to mean "earlier
> than something or someone," but, IMHO, I would write "before using
> it."
> I have no solid evidence to support my claim, so it is expected that I
> might be wrong. =]

Then when I got here I could see what they meant. I think they are -
just about - right: "Before I had it, I used to forget the things I
should do."

It's a bit unusual to use "before it" to mean "before I had it", but not
wrong.

Nevertheless, "without" is clearly the intended answer (and means
something else - as would (b) and (c) if they were legal) to "before".

Signature

Online waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk
development version: http://canalplan.eu

Reply to this Message

Ian Jackson - 26 May 2009 22:28 GMT

>> Ladies and Gentlemen:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>Nevertheless, "without" is clearly the intended answer (and means
>something else - as would (b) and (c) if they were legal) to "before".

Just one thing.....
In my English English, you would say "simple" or "easy" instead of
"trivial". For some reason, "trivial" seems to have become popular
(especially on the internet), but the 'usual' meaning is "something of
little importance". Yes, it can mean "simple", "straightforward" or even
"obvious", but this is when it is used in mathematics.
<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trivial>

Signature

Ian

Reply to this Message

Mark Brader - 27 May 2009 04:49 GMT

Ian Jackson:

> In my English English, you would say "simple" or "easy" instead of
> "trivial". For some reason, "trivial" seems to have become popular
> (especially on the internet), but the 'usual' meaning is "something of
> little importance". Yes, it can mean "simple", "straightforward" or even
> "obvious", but this is when it is used in mathematics.

Are you seriously suggesting that people should change their English
usage just because there is a non-zero probability that the intersection
of the set of readers and the complement of the set of all mathematicians
might be non-null?

Signature

Mark Brader, Toronto | I am a mathematician, sir. I never permit myself
msb@vex.net | to think. --Stuart Mills (Carr: The Three Coffins)

Reply to this Message

Ian Jackson - 27 May 2009 07:50 GMT

>Ian Jackson:
>> In my English English, you would say "simple" or "easy" instead of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>of the set of readers and the complement of the set of all mathematicians
>might be non-null?

Errrrrrrr ...
Well ...
If you put it like that ...
Maybe.
[Was that the right answer?]

Signature

Ian

Reply to this Message

James Hogg - 26 May 2009 16:55 GMT

Quoth Tacia <outofdejavu@gmail.com>, and I quote:

>Ladies and Gentlemen:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>I have no solid evidence to support my claim, so it is expected that I
>might be wrong. =]

Your claim is right: "before it, I'd forget the things I should
do" would be nonsense here, and I find it hard to see how it
could make sense in any context. It would have to be expanded and
modified to something like "Before I had it [my notebook], I'd
forget [= I tended to forget] the things I had to do."

Signature

James

Reply to this Message

Mark Brader - 26 May 2009 17:14 GMT

"Tacia":

>> --------------
>> I write everything about work in my pink notebook; _____ it, I'd
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>
>> Someone thinks that "before it" is okay too.

James Hogg:

> ... "before it, I'd forget the things I should do" would be nonsense
> here,

I agree that (a) is wrong.

> and I find it hard to see how it could make sense in any context.

Well, if you put something like "today", "these days", or "nowadays"
on the front of the first sentence, you set up a contrast referring
to time.

Nowadays I write everything about work in my pink notebook;
before it, I'd forget the things I should do.

This is still not idiomatic English, but if I wouldn't be surprised if
someone with a foreign accent said it, and I'd understand "before" in
the sense intended. With a more expansive context:

Getting the pink notebook started a new period in my life.
In my life with the notebook, I've written everything about
my work in it; before it, I'd forget the things I should do.

> It would have to be expanded and modified to something like "Before
> I had it [my notebook], I'd forget [= I tended to forget] the things
> I had to do."

Yes, that works, and it's certainly a more likely expansion than my
examples.

Signature

Mark Brader | "Forgive me if I misunderstood myself, but
Toronto | I don't think I was arguing in favour of that..."
msb@vex.net | -- Geoff Butler

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Reply to this Message

Discussion Groups / English Usage / May 2009

a trivial test question